02-08-2003 14:48									#1
	Turn 99, 590BC Tired of ads?

To be edited by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- Researching Republic at 100% (4 turns)
- Luxury Slider at 0%
- 56 gold cash, -4 gpt


Urgent questions & tasks
FAM: NAP with CFC being reworked to include agreement regarding GCA, CDG cities, and tech.

Unit movement & actions
To be added by MoW

Economy
To be added by MoI

WF:
To be added.

Workers:
To be added.



Diplomacy:
CDG: NAP/Border treaty (to turn 109).
GCA: NAP in effect (to Turn 130).
CFC: NAP expired. New NAP proposed by CFC thru turn 117
also, see this thread


Comment, please, many "plans" are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.

---
Note: keypad directions used for all except in WF orders.

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results

	03-08-2003 03:45									#2
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Crucial decision. MedAge tech, or no MedAge tech?

It has been discussed that we could supply CDG with all ancient era techs and then receive their free MedAge tech before extinguishing them. Do we want to follow through with that? Here is how it would go.

T1 Poly gives Polytheism, Currency, and HBR to CDG. CFC gives Construction to CDG. Offers Construction to Poly.

T2 CDG cannot give us MA tech yet, as we are not yet out of the AA. Poly responds to CFC's offer with Currency and Polytheism, accepted. CFC accepts.

T3 CDG gives MA tech to both CFC and Poly. Poly occupies Shah.

Yes, it takes 3 turns to complete the sequence from when it is initiated. The turn is almost back to us, and we will likely not be able to make satisfactory arrangements with CFC in time to begin this turn. That adds another turn to the sequence, at least.

I think this thing takes too long and there is too much to go wrong, especially given that an erratic act by the ruler of CDG could seriously mess things up. It also holds CDG players to the corpse of their civ by them not being allowed to move on to other teams, or by prolonging the refugee period if any is imposed.

Furthermore, GCA will no doubt get wind of this at some point, and they may very well take the position that we expolited the game. This would be a very grey area, and it would certainly effect the opinions of us among some on the teams on the other continent.

I think we should just get it done with, and occupy Shah this turn. What say you all?

	03-08-2003 04:32									#3
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It also depends on whether we allow CDGF as our vassal state. We need to put that in consideration.

	03-08-2003 04:43									#4
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We should at least try to get the tech from CDG. I don't agree with the vassalage proposal, but it's been our goal since day 1 (whenever that was) to get that tech from CDG.

	03-08-2003 05:08									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I think we should just get it done with, and occupy Shah this turn. What say you all?

Sigh ! With the GF vassel state proposal, this Tech exchange idea is fast becoming unattainable. nye is probably right, we could just get this done with and finish off CDG.

Note : The easy way out to get out of this is probably - tell CDG and CFC that we did not get any Techs out of the hut. Statistics guys, what do you think ? can they find out ?

	03-08-2003 05:16									#6
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Vassalage and the tech gets my vote.

	03-08-2003 05:39									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I think vassalage is off the table now. Removed by CDG. They have requested we kill them. How will they react to being held up for another 4 or more turns for the tech scheme to be worked out and put into effect?

I should point out, we have no firm agreement with CFC on the topic. It was discussed, but they have not got back to us.

The turn is here. I would like to allow for discussion of this issue. I will play the turn in about 3 and a half hours. That should be good for dubya and Arnelos (I hope).

	03-08-2003 05:48									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I would waive the free medieval tech and kill CDG this turn. As nye says - there is too much that can go wrong...

	03-08-2003 05:59									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

CFC won't be half the opponent CGN and GWT will be. With our current economy that tech is a free 20 turns of technology accomplished for us. If we meet the other continent we'll have something to trade. Or, we can maintain tech parity if we don't want to trade or we have the same tech as CGN.

I would rather give CFC our techs than lose that free tech.

	03-08-2003 07:10									#10
	Remove this text

I agree with Trip. Get that tech!!

	03-08-2003 08:05									#11
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Kill them, make them pay for spoiling our fun that we would have had with them....

E_T

	03-08-2003 08:49									#12
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Get the tech

	03-08-2003 11:42									#13
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Get the tech. Just as Trip said CFC isnt and wont be nearly as strong as CGN or GWT. We should be looking at the big picture here and if we are behind in tech when we meet the losts civs assuming most of them are on the same continent we wont have much of a future. Even if it brings CFC a few techs closer to the Rider, they would still need around 60 turns for the Rider anyway right?

	03-08-2003 12:50									#14
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The turn will be played at about 4pm EDT Sunday.

That will give the diplomats some time to see if they can pull some rabbit out of some hat. Given CFC's last message I think it is unlikely, but they deserve a chance to try.

	03-08-2003 22:02									#15
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither The turn will be played at about 4pm EDT Sunday. That will give the diplomats some time to see if they can pull some rabbit out of some hat. Given CFC's last message I think it is unlikely, but they deserve a chance to try.

Both Togas and BigFree are away this weekend.

	04-08-2003 00:09									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Trip, WhiteBandit, and MZ are working on it.

	04-08-2003 01:47									#17
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

GF was contacted. He assured me that CDG members would not mind one more turn waiting, to see if CFC can come to a reasonable position. Of course, it still takes another 3 turns after that to get the details done.

We will need some form of assurances that CDG members will not become angered over the delay.

The turn has been sent. CDG lives one turn more.

	04-08-2003 01:48									#18
	Tired of ads?

Unit Movement and Actions:
S01 'jagjef' loads on poa

G01 'AS Princess of Apolyton' moves 8 8 8. Fortify all
G02 'AS Expedition' moves 1 1 3. Fortify all

N03 'DarkCloud' moves 8
N05 'Enamel' moves 2

W03 'Alva' moves 8
W12 'Warrior With No Name' moves 2
W07 'WhiteBandit' waits above Shaharazade


Economy:
Apolyton building barracks (1)
Mingapulco building horseman (2)
Banantopia building temple (4)
Incensity building horseman (3)
Tripoli building barracks (11)
Cuido de Alcohol building walls (13)
Hispanica building temple (18)
Possumopolis building walls (13)
Karina building worker (5)
LuxInvicta building worker (5)
Big Bend building worker (8)
BigFurryCity building to temple (21)
Heart of Darkness set to worker (3, grow in 4)

Work Force:
Apolyton 3-12-14-17 at start. NC
Mingapulco 2-3-10-15 at start. Change to 2-4-10-15
Banantopia 1-2-19-20 at start. Change to 1-2-18-19
Incensity 5-6-7-17 at start. NC
Tripoli 17-20 at start. NC
Cuido de Alcohol 19 at start. NC
Hispanica 1-14 at start. NC
Possumopolis 14 at start. NC
Karina 9 at start. Change to 3
LuxInvicta 11 at start. NC
Big Bend 10 at start. NC
BigFurryCity 5 at start. NC
Heart of Darkness 10 at start. NC

Workers:
Worker01: 'Dan' clearing (6) Big Bend 7
Worker02: 'Monkee' mining (1) Bananatopia 2
Worker03: 'panag' mining (2) Apolyton 4
Worker04: 'EVC' clearing (6) HoD 6
Worker05: 'Dejon' clearing (6) HoD 6
Worker06: 'MrWIA'moves 2 2 2
Worker07: 'Rush' moves 3 3 3
Worker08: 'Yo' roading (2) LuxInvicta 2
Worker09: 'Calc II' clearing (1) LuxInvicta 2
Worker10: 'Spink' moves 2 1
Worker11: 'Horse' mining (3) Bananatopia 4
Worker12: 'Squid' moves 3 and mines (3) Bananatopia 1
Worker13: 'Otto' clearing (2) Karina 1
Worker14: 'Mark' clearing (2) Karina 1
Worker15: 'Gits' clearing (6) Big Bend 7

Slider:
Science at 100%. -4gpt. 56 gold. Republic in 4.

	04-08-2003 02:29									#20
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Back to strong vs GCA, after a couple of Mercs healed 1 pip each. That should help BFM.

Parthian barbs found 8 8 8 9 of Shaharazade. They should be the closest.

The music has changed, and CGN's capital graphic is Medieval. We assume that GWT has also progressed. The barbs should have erupted last turn, or they will erupt at the end of this turn. We assume.

	04-08-2003 09:37									#21
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Won't Shaharazade auto-raze if we attack it before its borders expand?

	04-08-2003 09:44									#22
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No. It's size 2 (cities need to be size 1 to auto-raze) and it HAS culture even though the borders haven't expanded (it has the CDG Palace).

	04-08-2003 09:51									#23
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm not sure about the size 1 rule, but I do know that you can longer "capital chase". You need to wait until the borders expand. Having less than 10 (or whatever it is) culture is no longer enough.

Last edited by BRC on 04-08-2003 at 10:06

	04-08-2003 10:06									#24
	Put an end to popups!

I can unequivocally state that Shahara will not raze if we take it before its borders grow. Don't even ask me how I know.

	04-08-2003 10:08									#25
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Gotcha! Works for me.

	04-08-2003 19:55									#26
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I'd be interested to see if there is a relationship between having seen GangusFarb in action and simply wanting to kill of CDG.

There's little worse than trying to do something shady and getting screwed. I haven't fully analyzed the situation (and I'm still catching up), so I would abstain in a vote (I'm a bit late anyway), but I say safe and clean.