03-08-2003 07:41									#91
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quote: Originally posted by DanS And you think OSU and Michigan fans aren't in the same boat? Brit fans don't even have tailgate parties, do they?

No, of course they don't. This is one reason why attendances look low.

The grounds are mostly located (for historical reasons) smack in the middle of heavily built up areas. This means that there is no car parking and that they can't be easily enlarged.

There is a move to relocate to suburban areas with lots of car parking, but people like being able to walk from the pub to the ground.

	03-08-2003 07:46									#92
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How large is an average attendance at a soccer riot?

	03-08-2003 08:00									#93
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Here's a good collation of all the information on "football" for 2000, although they left out college football. Boo. Hiss.

http://www.european-football-statis...11attnworld.htm

American football has the top 10 slots, and 17 out of the top 20. Barcelona is 11th. America (Mexico) is second among the soccer clubs at 17th (interesting, because I've never heard of them). Aussie rules breaks in at 41 and Canadian football at 81.

	03-08-2003 08:07									#94
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quote: although they left out college football.

I assume because it is a comparison of 'professional' sports... not that college football is too far off that moniker .

	03-08-2003 08:10									#95
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And here's a better, more recent list. Barcelona is #5 in this list. American football has 16 out of the top 20.

http://www.geocities.com/worldfootb...2003/index.html

	03-08-2003 08:13									#96
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Lastly, the top MLS team is #169 on the list. Not too bad, I guess, considering that MLS is a startup.

	03-08-2003 08:18									#97
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From your last list Dan, I'd say it'd feel comparatively lonely to be a fan watching the Arizona Cardinals .

	03-08-2003 08:21									#98
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quote: Originally posted by DanS And here's a better, more recent list. Barcelona is #5 in this list. American football has 16 out of the top 20. http://www.geocities.com/worldfootb...2003/index.html

AND the CFL has moved up to 66th spot! WAHOO! AND it's the Eskimos! I had no idea us lowly Canadian Football fans were outperforming fans of teams like Arsenal and Aston Villa. I feel so special.

******

SPONTANEOUS CFL TALK (Anyone?): The Ticats lost AGAIN! 0-7! HA! Brilliant.

	03-08-2003 08:22									#99
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Here is another interesting link from that site:

http://www.geocities.com/worldfootb...125Leagues.html

Showing the average attendance of the top football leagues in the world. Interesting to note that the MLS outdraws the Scottish Premier League (of course the SPL isn't all that great, but it is definetly better than MLS quality wise).

	03-08-2003 08:26									#100
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Other interesting stuff... the MLS has twice as many more fans per game than the US Women's League (15,852 v. 6,943). And the MLS grew by 12.31% (YAY! ), while the women's league fell by 17.50% (Boo! )

	03-08-2003 08:44									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui From your last list Dan, I'd say it'd feel comparatively lonely to be a fan watching the Arizona Cardinals .

arizona isnt lower only cuz its centrally located between dallas, oakland and denver. so when they play those teams the stadium gets inundated w/ the opposing teams fans.

	03-08-2003 09:06									#102
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Yes, it's very true stadium locations have led to Football in England being poorly attended compared with Soccer in America.

This is because , As stadiums had to convert to all seaters they found they could only seat 30000-40000 (Premier league clubs), and hence kicked off the Television Culture by fans disallusioned at not getting Tickets. Even the clubs that have now located out of town struggle to get back fans accustomed to not getting a ticket and hence have become used to the TV.


Furthermore the actual numbers concerned with potential fan bases for UK Football Clubs are a problem compared with America.

Take the Top League, Either the NFL or the Premier for the respective sport.
The Best teams, in the top leagues tend to come from Cities, often big cities. In America City Sizes of the 'Top' Cities are MUCH MUCH larger than in the UK. Lets think of one our Top UK Cities, Leeds - It has probably 3/4 Million people living there nowdays. Go down the order in America and a simular city would be Multi-Millions - And therefore it's brand would be much less restricted.

	03-08-2003 09:15									#103
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quote: The Best teams, in the top leagues tend to come from Cities, often big cities. In America City Sizes of the 'Top' Cities are MUCH MUCH larger than in the UK. Lets think of one our Top UK Cities, Leeds - It has probably 3/4 Million people living there nowdays. Go down the order in America and a simular city would be Multi-Millions - And therefore it's brand would be much less restricted.

All very true. On the other hand, getting to the stadiums is probably much less of a hassle in the UK.

quote: This is because , As stadiums had to convert to all seaters they found they could only seat 30000-40000 (Premier league clubs), and hence kicked off the Television Culture by fans disallusioned at not getting Tickets. Even the clubs that have now located out of town struggle to get back fans accustomed to not getting a ticket and hence have become used to the TV.

What do you mean by "all-seaters"? Do you mean there are actual seats (like pro football in the US) or there is just a bench on which to sit (most college football in the US)?

	03-08-2003 09:33									#104
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Actual Seats in England. In Italy it's benches though.
My Team , Rotherham United, holds about 10500 now (although it's worth noting there is still one stand w/o seats although we have just one left to rectift this!) yet used to hold in excess of 20000.

	03-08-2003 13:32									#105
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In 1926 (IIRC) the 1st FA cup final was played at Wembley officialy aprox 130000 got in. The police estimated another 100,000 got in unofficialy.

Before people got worried about saftey crowds used to be well in excess of 100,000 for internationals in the UK. Scotland I think manged to get 140,000 into Hampden park. The Marracana is huge so 200,000 in the days of virtually all terracing is not unrealistic.

! test match in India or at the MCG could easily have a total attendence of over 300,000

	03-08-2003 13:32									#106
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yeah but it's only the prem where all the teams have all seaters, a lot of first division clubs do, but it's not universal. lower down and you can still find terraces to stand on.

and worth, very good points, but leeds are crap

	03-08-2003 13:37									#107
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Not Really Cockney, Not even many Nationwide clubs have standing left now.
I was only aware that my own Rotherham have Standing in the first division (this is because clubs HAVE to be all seater inside 3 seasons of div 1) .... and we're in our 3rd season now

	03-08-2003 13:42									#108
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nah, i've been to a fair few 2nd and third division games, except at places like the circle in hull (25,000 all seater for division 3!) there are usually terraces, although yes, it is becoming rarer

	03-08-2003 13:43									#109
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i dxidn't know that about division one btw, haven't been to a game in a while, although i might catch a few cardiff city games next season.

	03-08-2003 14:34									#110
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All-seaters suck. Give me a terrace every day. I guess the background is an attempt to stop violence but if some ****er tells me to sit down in front they'll see some real houliganism.

	03-08-2003 14:34									#111
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Cardiff City?

You are in Swansea aren't you? Port Talbot and Afan Lido play at home on consecutive weeks - that's a game a week for around £4. Unless you are a football snob..

BTW, Man United could get 400k attendances but stadiums are limited in size by more factors than in the US.

	03-08-2003 14:37									#112
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"All-seaters suck. Give me a terrace every day. I guess the background is an attempt to stop violence but if some ****er tells me to sit down in front they'll see some real houliganism."

Yeah definitely.

We've had beer bottles in the Dias Stand before...

	03-08-2003 14:38									#113
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A prize for guessing who the guy on the bottom row, on the far left is. Quite an attraction for the one game he played as I remember it.

	03-08-2003 14:43									#114
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How about an action shot...

	03-08-2003 16:23									#115
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yeah i didn't watch that much local footie in swansea, maybe 5-6 games. because it usually clashed with me actually playing football. don't know about next year though

	03-08-2003 20:52									#116
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Btw, are you allowed to have alcohol in stadiums in Europe? In the US...

pro football--yes
college football--no
pro baseball--yes of course
pro soccer--don't know

	03-08-2003 21:02									#117
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Btw, are you allowed to have alcohol in stadiums in Europe? In the US... pro football--yes college football--no pro baseball--yes of course pro soccer--don't know

In the 'big' grounds in England the 'plebs' can drink bfore the game and at half time although you can't take your drink back to your seat, you have to drink it in a designated area (don't ask!)

If you have enough money to buy a 'box' (not sure what the American equivilent would be called) you get waiter service throughout the match

	03-08-2003 21:04									#118
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Actually, the college sports have a lot of fan participation, although they are generally very well mannered. I fear the day that a Brit team has the 105,000 attendance of a typical Ohio State or Michigan game.

Only because Universities threaten to expel students who run out on the field or start fights in the stands. Not to mention that alchohol isn't allowed in the stadiums either, I bet that if the Brits couldn't drink inside the stadium that they would be much more tame as well

	03-08-2003 21:18									#119
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If you are not allowed to drink in the stadium, you just have an extra couple of pints before the game. Usually making the problem of hooliganism worse.

There are similarities with the 11pm close of bars. It forces people to neck a few pints before last orders, and then spilling onto the street when the beer is starting to kick in.

	03-08-2003 21:26									#120
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No terraces to stand on, that's just horrible.
I heard that at many higher league games in England the atmosphere has gotten real shitty compared to earlier for various reasons, any of you brits want to give me som insider info on if this is true and if so why?