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Japher
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Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:30
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Civil War: Is 'Gods and Generals' any good? If you've seen it of course...
As for the choice of homosexuality; I don't really care. I feel people sometimes can't help what they are and sometimes they can. Practicing homosexuality is obviously a choice, yet so is practicing anything. Is it genetic? I don't know. Probably just as genetic as someone being good at math or liking dogs more than cats. Maybe their is some social influences that it takes, maybe?
The one thing that makes me wonder is that in history it seems that there were societies were homosexuality was not as frowned upon. Almost all Romans, for example, were bi-sexual and kept lovers as well as a wife. Was this natural/genetic? If so then what changed some of us to be straight? Was it sociological? If so than what changed the attitude of the world, and what is changing it back again?
To me, I stopped caring sometime ago, but the question still haunts me. I think a better question would be; Is sexuality, in general, a choice? That way homosexuals are singled out as being the exception to the norm, as it seems the norm fluctuates...
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MrFun
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of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
Again, does it really matter whether one's sexuality is due to nature or nurture?
What we have is a bunch of blokes who fancy blokes and the evidence that all the "reform poofs" campaigns have failed miserably. Those are the facts.
Even if homosexuality could be avoided by appropriate child rearing mechanisms, can someone offer me a good reason why we should care to do so? Gay people seem to like being gay, so what's the problem?
I have yet to see evidence beyond the fact that Boris is a subversive commie sympathiser and Fez being most likely Apolytoner to conduct a fascist purge, that homosexuality is a great danger to society and civilisation. In the absence of such evidence isn't homosexuality a non-issue? |
I agree for the most part. But there are serious problems and issues within gay society and these problems come from within the gay society, as well as from homophobia in the rest of society. None of these problems exist JUST BECAUSE some people are gay -- they are societal problems that can be resolved without the fantasy of changing people to become straight.
For instance, a gay couple raising a child of their own will experience many problems that straight parents do not experience, because of the toleration of homophobia in schools and communities. The problem is not with the stable, responsible gay couple.
Another example -- during the emergence of the AIDS epidemic, gay bathouse owners turned their heads the other way in the spirit of greed and calluous disregard to their patron's public health. They received information about how the disease was probably spreading early on, yet they refused to take any significant action. This is an example of a problem arising from within gay society.
Oh, and about Fez and Boris -- well, I think you might have to apologize to Boris for mentioning him in the same sentence as Fez. 
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Worthingtons
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Pride Park,Derby
Jan 2002
time: 05:30
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quote:
[small] Originally Posted by Harrison[/small]
Well DOH! It's obviously not a genetic issue...although some genetic combinations may lend themselves towards a disposition to being homosexual...the phenotype is obviously far more environmentally dependent - down to things that no one can attribute... |
But Many people in this thread, such as boris seem to think it IS a genetic issue, which explains me trying to reason it's unlikely.
There seems to be 3 factors
Genetic
Enviromental
Choice
My Argue is that each has a significance and therefore the answer to the initial question is yes, although it doesnt tell the whole story.
I would say each factor has the following significance
Genetic :- Very Small, but still possible
Environment :- Very Signifanct
Choice :- Slightly Signifacant.
As to how important it all is, I don't really know, I'm simply giving my views on Sava's question. I only thought Homosexual's and Homephobes actually cared.
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Worthingtons
But Many people in this thread, such as boris seem to think it IS a genetic issue, which explains me trying to reason it's unlikely.
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I absolutely said no such thing. I pointed out why your reasoning for ruling it out as an issue of nature was flawed, I made no case for it being genetic myself. I also pointed out that just because something isn't genetic doesn't mean it isn't biologically determined.
Ag: I am not now, nor have I ever been, a communist. Nor a sympathizer of communism. I am, at most, a Democratic Socialist, with a few libertarian social leanings. I happen to like stuff, and don't intend to let any commies change my materialistic ways.
Last edited by Boris Godunov on 05-08-2003 at 04:39
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The Emperor Fabulous
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Apolyton's Resident Actor-in-Training
Aug 1999
time: 00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Worthingtons
Genetic :- Very Small, but still possible
Environment :- Very Signifanct
Choice :- Slightly Signifacant.
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My uncle comes from a very catholic upbringing. His father was your normal irish catholic father in the 50s (so assume what you will.) He lost his mother while he was in his 20s. He is VERY homosexual.
Now, first off, this is not the type of "environement" that would "produce" homosexuality in a person.
Second...he has 9 siblings, 6 of which are men. None of them are homosexual, and indeed each has a certain belief towards homosexuality (my father supports gays, one uncle is a catholic brother and takes the Vatican's stance, one is an extreme fundamentalist).
How, then, can it be environmental?
(Keep in mind, this is also the SAME uncle who said "Why on Earth would you actually think I would CHOOSE to be this way?")
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:30
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quote:
Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous
My uncle comes from a very catholic upbringing. His father was your normal irish catholic father in the 50s (so assume what you will.) He lost his mother while he was in his 20s. He is VERY homosexual.
Now, first off, this is not the type of "environement" that would "produce" homosexuality in a person.
Second...he has 9 siblings, 6 of which are men. None of them are homosexual, and indeed each has a certain belief towards homosexuality (my father supports gays, one uncle is a catholic brother and takes the Vatican's stance, one is an extreme fundamentalist).
How, then, can it be environmental?
(Keep in mind, this is also the SAME uncle who said "Why on Earth would you actually think I would CHOOSE to be this way?") |
(Emphasis above is mine.)
Could your uncle have been molested by a priest, or by another boy who was acting out after being molested?
I'm not saying molestation is necessary for someone to become gay, nor am I saying that everyone who is molested becomes gay. We all know that this isn't true by a longshot. But might the introduction of the idea of homosexual sex and possibly imprintation of that idea in the mind of a molested boy have some impact on whether or not he later becomes gay or bisexual? More religious people tend to bury memories of molestation deeper than others, as it often destroys their world view thouroughly, especially when the molester is a priest. In such a case it is much more like incest in terms of damage done.
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Proteus_MST
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quote:
Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous
My uncle comes from a very catholic upbringing. His father was your normal irish catholic father in the 50s (so assume what you will.) He lost his mother while he was in his 20s. He is VERY homosexual.
Now, first off, this is not the type of "environement" that would "produce" homosexuality in a person.
Second...he has 9 siblings, 6 of which are men. None of them are homosexual, and indeed each has a certain belief towards homosexuality (my father supports gays, one uncle is a catholic brother and takes the Vatican's stance, one is an extreme fundamentalist).
How, then, can it be environmental?
(Keep in mind, this is also the SAME uncle who said "Why on Earth would you actually think I would CHOOSE to be this way?") |
It doesn´t have to be environmental Factors your Uncle himself knows about.
Many thing influence people in their earliest childhood and, some things are even better acquired during childhood than later.
I mentioned the Imprint of Zebrafinches earlier during this Thread. They have a sensual Phase for Sexual Imprinting, which lasts from the 15s to 40s day of their Life. Any imprintings you make during this period (for example to show courtship behaviour on other species of Birds) remains stable for the rest of their Life and can´t be altered after the 40s day of their life.
I won´t say that humans could have the same mechanism as Birds, but just wanted to show, that Experiences in early childhood could have effects for a whole life.
So maybe, your Uncle doesn´t remember the events which lead to him becoming homosexual (if it is caused by environment) as they happened too early in his life, but their Effects had an impact on his whole life.
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Japher
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Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:30
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Mr. Fun
I chose to be straight. The same way I chose the color of my hair, eyes, skin, talents, skills, abilities, likes, dislikes, etc...
I use to hate the taste of sheit, but I learned to like it, and now I really like it, and my dog and I eat it all the time....
Oh Wait, That NEver Happened!!!
Sometimes people just are the way they are and like the things they like, because that is what they like and that is who they are.
Question: What's your favorite color? Is that genetic? My favorite color is Hot CHick COlor.
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05-08-2003 00:45
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