22-08-2003 07:48									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I think the impact is greater than that. It shifts the balance to buying railroads. Would you use the PA often enough that you'd save 30 grand in fees in the long run?

	22-08-2003 09:39									#62
	Put an end to popups!

In a normal game, you are buying rails anyway... and once they are all bought, you are staying on your rails anyway... and unless you rail network sucks, you won't leave it often. So everybody is saving pretty much the same money.

The only impact is to speed up the game, and it makes sense to do it in tournament play.

	22-08-2003 13:25									#63
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Yeah, but you guys have stopped buying railroads, right?

	22-08-2003 17:21									#64
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Only in three man games.
All the rails are still being bought in four+ man games.

RAH

	26-08-2003 02:56									#65
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I'm sure there are scenarios in 4-man where "run away and hide" would succeed, but we haven't gotten there yet. (Well, thinking about it, it may have happened once or twice, but with only a couple rails left over.)

	26-08-2003 18:00									#66
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The best way to beat "run away and hide" is to purchase all the rails to double the penalty. In a three man game, it costs too much money, in a four man game it's much easier.

	28-08-2003 10:24									#67
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So, how do you rank the Big 3 rails? I myself have always liked Santa Fe.

	28-08-2003 12:57									#68
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger So, how do you rank the Big 3 rails? I myself have always liked Santa Fe.

Depends on the number of players.

In a real game... where all the rails are bought... the PA is still the best. The ATS&F is probably number 2. If you mean the Big 3 are the ATS&F, the UP and the SP... the Santa Fe is indeed the best of those three.

	28-08-2003 14:05									#69
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Yeah, "Big 3" are the AT&SF, the UP, and the SP.

	28-08-2003 22:50									#70
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The ATS&F's strength is that it's fast and goes all the way to Chicago. The UP is fast and gives you some coverage in two regions... but without the WP, not being able to get to Oakland/SF is a big minus. At least it's usually easy to hook up to.
The SP is a great rail and gets to a lot of cities... but it's really slow, really doesn't give you any locks...

	29-08-2003 07:37									#71
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The SP is excellent if you travel between South Central and Southwest. Otherwise it's just very slow.

	29-08-2003 19:02									#72
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If I already have the WP, I'll go for the UP.
If I have the Denver-Rio, it speeds up the SP some.
But with neither, ATSF is prefered.

	30-08-2003 10:44									#73
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

In a normal game, would you not save up to buy one of them instead of getting WP or Denver-Rio?

	30-08-2003 16:16									#74
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Good game

	30-08-2003 21:40									#75
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger In a normal game, would you not save up to buy one of them instead of getting WP or Denver-Rio?

If you are saving for a big rail... It never hurts to buy one of those two while you are getting enough money.

6 or 8 thousand doesn't really hurt your ability to buy a big rail. Especially if you are on the West Coast, and you are only 10 short of what you need... the odds are, your next run will give you the money you need, and you will also have the small rail In our normal games, those rails go pretty early.

	31-08-2003 04:16									#76
	Full PM-box? Change here!

And if you have to sell it after getting a big one, you can sometimes make a profit.

	31-08-2003 10:06									#77
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

That's true.

What about the 3 railroads connecting NW (CMStP&P, NP, and GN)? I always go for CMStP&P first, even though it connects fewer cities and is the most expensive. What about you?

	01-09-2003 05:22									#78
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

NP. It's cheaper, has the most coverage, and it still connects easy. If i have the WP, i'll splurge for the GN.
The CMStP&P is only prefered if it's a 6 man game and connecting is a real problem.

	01-09-2003 07:13									#79
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

CMStP&P is more efficient though.

	01-09-2003 10:10									#80
	Suffering from ads?

But it doesn't go to portland. The number one probo city in the northwest.

	02-09-2003 08:13									#81
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Yeah... the CMSTP&P is nice in a 5 or 6 person game.

But portland is big... and the NP or GN can be easily hooked and give better coverage. the one or two squares you save aren't worth it if you have to go to Fargo or Portland

	02-09-2003 17:33									#82
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hooking the NP with the CB&Q can be real nice. Especially if you have the ATS&F.

	02-09-2003 22:57									#83
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The CN&W and NP combo costs $28 K. For the extra $10K over the cost of the CMSTP&P... You get to the following additional cities:

Fargo
Omaha
Rapid City (which you lock)
Casper
Billings
Portland

And still get all 6 cities that the CMSTP&P gets to.
It also makes the Northwest a lot more "comfortable" to call for a long run

	02-09-2003 23:07									#84
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

CMSTP&P is fast but not thorough -- and it's harder to hook (no CB&Q option). If you're not going to calling the NW region, it's fine. If you have the UP without the WP, it's the preferred rail.

Overall, (in general) I agree that the NP is the best of the lot -- the most flexible, fine coverage, inexpensive, and fast enough.

I sometimes buy the C&NW first. It makes all the others better, provides a lock, and takes away the only cheap hook.

	02-09-2003 23:20									#85
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Harder to hook?????

It is the only one of the three that goes to Chicago

	02-09-2003 23:56									#86
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

OK, sorry, technically the CMSTP&P doesn't need a hook. But having every return trip from a NW destination go through Chicago *can be* a major pain.

	03-09-2003 01:17									#87
	Got spare money?

Especially if you're doing a seattle - LA run and your only other rail west is the ATS&F

	03-09-2003 01:57									#88
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit OK, sorry, technically the CMSTP&P doesn't need a hook. But having every return trip from a NW destination go through Chicago *can be* a major pain.

That I agree with... not the harder to hook line

	03-09-2003 10:37									#89
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Yesterday I had a solo game on the Rail Baron Player. After awhile, I noticed the B&O was still avilable while I already had the PA and one of the big western rails, so I grabbed that, which proved to be enough of an edge to win.

	03-09-2003 21:29									#90
	Inflate your Upload Space

That has happened more in the normal 4 player game. If someone thinks they can stall on the B&O and C&O to harvest another area, the person with the PA buys it and get's two benefits. The phil, baltimore, pitts, lock, and watching the other two fight for the C&O.

But sometimes having both will encourage people to take the NYC if possible to avoid you for being a pig.