28-09-2003 02:06									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Also with the completion of workers at Tiberium, Zargonia and Dyefields next turn, I feel that with 29 workers we will have nearly enough workers for now (except at Dyefields perhaps - one more worker or a settler then start an aqueduct). Zargonia can start its aqueduct and Tiberium can get its temple done (though we might need to control its population or rush the temple).

The whole logic behind all the workers is like this: up to pop 6, we need 10 food to grow by 1. At 7+, we need 20 food (and often, an aqueduct). Thus, if we keep shaving the 7th pop point off by producing workers, we make the best use of the food surplus. We use these workers to improve the city radius, preparing tiles for 7+ labourers - and add them all back to the city when there is an aqueduct and improved tiles enough to work.

There is an awful lot of terrain improvements to do, if we are considering GA in about 30 turns. Lots of jungle clearing, lots of hill mining... and once all that is done, every worker is an instant pop point.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Also how about switching Sharpehaven to a settler instead of another merc? It would get it done at the same time as the merc and arrive at the Castlea site before the Farmerville settler would. Farmerville can then send its settler to found Port Hammer.

First: we are pretty thin on defenders... only Jackson has two of them, all other cities just one and white camps are mostly non-existent...

Second: we are soon to finish settling Legos Major. Basically: Port Hammer, Castlea, Horsefish, Tipperrary, and Sandonorico to go - that's five. Then maybe some camps, but those are not really necessary. Two settlers are already in production (F'ville, L'ville). Considering how slowly S'haven grows, I would leave it at pop 6 and use our high-food cities (F+L'ville) for the few remaining settlers.

	29-09-2003 14:38									#122
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack Plans for 280AD (Turn 144): Worker Movement/Actions 32) new worker from Zargonia to be named 'Bruno' and moved S-SW, then help Bill

Actually I was thinking to move him NW-W to irrigate, even though I'm not sure whether that tile is near-water (it generates 2 gold commerce, so it should be, but with that mountain nearby I'm not so sure). We want to irrrigate those grasses and the cow, to let Zargonia grow quickly to use all those hills.

I agree that we still need a lot of workers; there are alot of improvements to make, still a lot of jungle, plus those new cities, etc.

the debate about the camps was moved in the Master Builder thread.

	30-09-2003 00:44									#123
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Vondrack, have you spoken to Vox about what all of their galleys are doing?

	01-10-2003 05:31									#124
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quote: 32) new worker from Zargonia to be named 'Bruno' and moved S-SW, then help Bill

You mean S-SE. The road will be finished (PBEM ), so he can start mining the same turn.

quote: 34) new worker from Tiberium to be named 'Chris' and move SW, then help Farmer

I'd rather not spend a move on putting a second worker on that tile. How about NW then road? Mark will finish roading at the same time as Farmer, so that'll be well timed for Mark to help with the mine.

Otherwise

	01-10-2003 13:35									#125
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Can someone answer my question? Can we irrigate the tile NW-W from Zargonia? If yes, wouldn't it be better to start irrigating Zargonia?

	01-10-2003 20:12									#126
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Tibi: when I get home from work, I will gladly answer your question. I don't want you to feel ignored

	01-10-2003 20:51									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep You mean S-SE. The road will be finished (PBEM ), so he can start mining the same turn.

Of course I meant S-SE...

quote: Originally posted by Kloreep I'd rather not spend a move on putting a second worker on that tile. How about NW then road? Mark will finish roading at the same time as Farmer, so that'll be well timed for Mark to help with the mine.

No problem, let's make it NW, then road.

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Can someone answer my question? Can we irrigate the tile NW-W from Zargonia? If yes, wouldn't it be better to start irrigating Zargonia?

Sorry, Tibi, couldn't get to firing up Civ and checking ingame.

No, we cannot irrigate there, as the tile has no river adjacent to it. The tile does generate 2 gold - but 1 gold is because of the road, the other because of us being a republic. Roaded tiles adjacent to rivers generate 3 gold under republic (as you can check SE of Farmerville).

We will have to finish the forest chop first and bring the fresh water through there.

	02-10-2003 07:34									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Can someone answer my question?

YES

quote: Can we irrigate the tile NW-W from Zargonia?

NO

quote: If yes, wouldn't it be better to start irrigating Zargonia?

YES...IF

hehe...I coundn't help myself.

Leo

	02-10-2003 10:10									#129
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OK, thanks. Isn't the Farmerville river originating from the nearby mountain? This is why I thought that maybe that tile can be irrigated. Besides I forgot about the Republic commerce bonus.

	02-10-2003 20:24									#130
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Hmm, just realized something interesting (maybe others noticed it but I didn't) - the 1st saltpeter in our territory will be the one near Zargonia in 6 turns, followed by the one SE of Forkmouth in 8 turns.

Thus the question arises, with both of these saltpeters in our territory - is Castlea that important right now to build? or are there any other cities that might be more important to build instead and bump Castlea down to the next settler?

Here are some ideas - they are just options (I am not advocating any of them - they are just for possible discussion).

I wonder if it might be worthwhile to get the Farmerville settler to found Horsefish while the Logville settler goes a bit further south and founds Tipperary in order to attempt to get that cattle into Abilene's borders that much quicker? Corruption will be brutal in Tipperary however...

Castlea is a loooong way from the current irrigation path towards Jackson and it doesn't have that many "food" squares - on the other hand its corruption should be nearly nil due to its proximity to Legopolis.

Port Hammer in comparison has more "food" squares but would need to clear that forest to get the irrigation up there (and shouldn't do that until we found Port Hammer) - it would also have more corruption ...

Last edited by Sharpe on 02-10-2003 at 20:30

	02-10-2003 22:40									#131
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Thus the question arises, with both of these saltpeters in our territory - is Castlea that important right now to build? or are there any other cities that might be more important to build instead and bump Castlea down to the next settler?

Well, as strange as it may sound, I believe we should consider settling the "worse" (lower food) sites first, since they will need more time to grow to at least pop 6 to properly enjoy the benefit of GA (I still hope and plan for triggering it in less than 30 turns from now).

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe I wonder if it might be worthwhile to get the Farmerville settler to found Horsefish while the Logville settler goes a bit further south and founds Tipperary in order to attempt to get that cattle into Abilene's borders that much quicker? Corruption will be brutal in Tipperary however...

Well, the fact is that a Farmerville settler needs about 7 turns to get to the Horsefish site. Logville needs, IIRC, about 5 turns to build a settler and two turns to move it to the Horsefish site. So - effectively, the settler from F'ville would be there at the same time as THE NEXT settler fom Logville. The contrary, however, does not apply for the Northern cities.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Castlea is a loooong way from the current irrigation path towards Jackson and it doesn't have that many "food" squares - on the other hand its corruption should be nearly nil due to its proximity to Legopolis.

Actually, the irrigation situation is not all that bad. Within two turns, fresh water is in Jackson. As the desert tiles NW, NW-NW of Jackson are going to be roaded and irrigated anyway (part of the Jackson GA preparations), we will get fresh water reasonably close. I believe that Jason will be able to connect the Castlea site and irrigate the two irrigable tiles with little delay.

There are two good things about Castlea: first, as you correctly point out, it will have low corruption. Second, it needs very little worker efforts to get to "optimal" status. the hill is already roaded, so all we need is to road and irrigate the plains/grass and mine the hill. Once done, Castlea will be at its "optimal" (for quite some time) setup, just growing and building the infra.

I do not feel too strongly about Castlea - certainly not because of the saltpeter. But it's one of the last low corruption sites we still have, it needs very little worker time - and is also a bit "missing link" in the ring around our capital... plus, we already have the garrison there...

Dunno, I would still go with Castlea - in the very beginning, it will grow even a tad faster than Port Hammer would...

	04-10-2003 22:13									#132
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Plans for 290AD (Turn 145):


Unit Movement/Actions

1) Blaster to move NE-E-E into the Jackson-D.F. white camp, then fortify there

2) Alexander to moved N-N and upgrade to knight for 80g; our last horse goes knight!

3) settler 'Abe' to move SW, to the Abilene site
4) MightyMerc to move SW, escorting Abe
I suggest founding Abilene first (on the next turn), effectively getting rid of the camp by the very city foundation...

5) I.N. to move N-N and fortify to see 3 tiles

6) Gaul to move E-E-E, towards the Jackson-D.F. white camp

7) N.C. to move SW-S-S

8) LEF1 (Troy, Hunter, Victor) to move NE-NE

9) LEF2 (Misty, Silver, Attila) to move NE-E or E-NE

10) LEF3 (Arthur, Horace, Lancelot) to move E-E

11) G.B. to move S-SE and fortify, uncovering the last shrouded ocean tiles

12) L.V. to move SW-W-W to Jackson

13) G.G. to move S-S-S, scouting

14) new Settler from Logville to be named 'Horsefish' and moved W-SW-S towards the Horsefish site
15) Darth Merc to move SE-SE-SE from Karina, to escort Horsefish
16) Dyetrich to move E and fortify in Karina

17) Ming to move W-SW and fortify, protecting Frank Jr.

18) J.K. to skip turn

19) Howard to move S-SE-S to the Tarz-D.F. white camp
(rename him to MediInf!)

20) Conan to move N-N-NW to the Tarz-D.F. white camp


Worker Movement/Actions

21) Jimbo to road, then mine

22) Patrick to mine
23) Peter to mine

24) Jason Jr. to road towards the Castlea site

25) Chris to road (Tiberium NW)

26) Jinxo to move S-S-S, then chop forest
speeding the next knight by a turn and preparing another 2-food tile for Panama

27) Martin to move E-SE to R.B. SE-SE, then road & mine

28) Gus to road
29) Stanley to road

30) Bill to mine

31) Luke to irrigate

32) Philippe to move E-E, then road & irrigate plain @ Karina W


City Management

33) Jackson labourer from the fully improved hill N-NW to the grassland SE-S/E
shields enough, +1 food

34) Forkmouth to work game, all (3) mined bonus grasses, 1 mined hill, both irrigated tiles, and the roaded grassland
shields enough to finish the knight in 1, same commerce but 1 more food

35) Dye Fields labourer from the roaded/mined grass S to the fully improved hill NE-NE
worker in 1 (see the GA thread on the general plan... workers, workers, workers - to bring down the jungle and join the city afterwards), growth in 1, too

36) Logville to work both mined hills, one irrigated grasses, roaded bonus grass (becomes irrigated), and wheat; start another settler
growth in 2

37) Sharpehaven labourer from the fully improved hill S-SE to the roaded grassland S
shields enough to nail merc in 1, same commerce, but +1 food

38) Oasis to stay as is
I set it to marketplace last turn, because it seems to me it is much better than a temple for the city - much bigger happiness effect thanks to all those luxuries and +50% gold. A temple would be a waste of shields, IMHO... but I am not all that convinced that a marketplace is the way to go - feel free to come with a different idea.

39) Tiberium to work cattle, roaded/irrigated grass, and hill

	08-10-2003 10:00									#133
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Guys, with all of 'poly's troubles, I'm backing up the latest turn orders over at MZO. If poly goes down, that's where they'll be

	22-10-2003 13:57									#134
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I have reviewed the save and there is nothing special, so I am going to play the turn and forward the save to GS. We lost a shield or two because of the lost luxury (cut by GoW this turn because of the need to terminate the iron trade), but nothing major - does not affect any completion times. And... the lux will be back next turn anyway.

	22-10-2003 17:02									#135
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Plans for 300AD (Turn 146):


Unit Movement/Actions

1) Blaster to fortify in the Jackson-D.F. white camp

2) Gaul to move E and fortify in the Jackson-D.F. white camp

3) Alexander (rename him to knight!) to move S-S and fortify in the TarZar white camp; waiting for the completion of LEF4 (our last LEF group, I believe, at least for some time)

4) J.K. to skip turn, waiting for LEF4

5) G.G. to move S-S-W, scouting

6) Settler 'Horsefish' to S-W-SW towards the Horsefish site
7) MercG (Tiberium garrison) to move W-SE, escorting Horsefish

8) settler 'Abe' to found Abilene; production temporarily to temple, work the roaded bonus grass NE-NE
9) MightyMerc to fortify in Abilene

10) L.V. to skip turn in Jackson

11) G.B. to move NW-NW-NW, returning home

12) LEF1 (Troy, Hunter, Victor) to move NE-NE

13) LEF2 (Misty, Silver, Attila) to move NW-N (worker still blocking the way )

14) LEF3 (Arthur, Horace, Lancelot) to move E-E

15) N.C. to move W-W-W

16) I.N. to move N-N-W

17) Darth Merc to move S-S-S, then fortify in Tiberium

18) Ming to fortify, protecting Frank Jr.

19) Howard to move S and fortify in the Tarz-D.F. white camp

20) Conan to move N and fortify in the Tarz-D.F. white camp

21) new knight finished in Jackson to be named 'Geraint', moved S-S and fortified in the Jackson-D.F. white camp

22) new knight finished in Forkmouth to be named 'Gareth', moved E-E-E-SE-SE-SE to become the last member of LEF4

23) new merc finished in Sharpehaven to be named Minos and moved S-SE-SE towards Forkmouth
24) Merril to move E-E-E to Farmerville
25) Ming to move SE-SE-SE towards Oasis
26) St. Merc to move SE-S-S towards Karina
27) Dyetrich to move S-SW-SW towards Ahhmyfoot
28) Merc Twain to move SW-W-S to kill the barb warrior



Worker Movement/Actions

29) Jinxo to chop forest

30) Stanley to move S-SE-E, then road
31) Gus to mine, then join Stanley again

32) Philippe to road, then irrigate

33) Martin to road, then mine

34) White to move SE and irrigate
35) new worker from Dye Fields to be named 'Yellow', moved NW and ordered to irrigate
see the GA thread for the grand Dye Fields plan

36) Michael to irrigate (part of the Jackson GA prep)

37) Charlie to move E, then road & mine

38) Fritz to move S-S-SW, then road

39) George to move E-E, then road and mine

40) Frank Jr. to move S, then road saltpeter

41) Adam to move W, then road saltpeter

42) Mark to move SE, then mine (or SW, then road?)

43) Farmer to mine

44) Logger to mine


City Management

45) Legopolis to work all improved riverbank tiles and two irrigated grasslands

46) Jackson labourer from the grassland SE-SE to the fully improved hill N-NW; start another knight

47) Farmerville to work all irrigated tiles, both mined bonus grasses, forest, and one mined regular grass
we can't complete the settler in 1 turn, so lets focus on commerce

48) reassign Red Bricks labourer from the roaded/mined regular grassland W-SW to the roaded/irrigated grassland SW of the city
catapult still in 1 turn, but more food & commerce

49) reassign Forkmouth labourer from the roaded grass N-NW back to the mined hill W of the city; start another knight

50) reassign Karina labourer from the roaded/irrigated plains S-SW to the roaded/mined bonus grass W of the city; start building a knight
one less commerce, but one more spt to nail a knight in 5 turns

51) Dye Fields to work two roaded/irrigated dye grasslands, two roaded/mined dye grasslands and the roaded/mined regular grassland
see the GA thread on the general plan... workers, workers, workers - to bring down the jungle and join the city afterwards

52) reassign Sharpehaven labourer from the roaded grassland S to the fully improved hill S-SE; start another merc
just the routine WF shuffle

53) send iron as 'accepted' to GoW/China

Last edited by vondrack on 27-10-2003 at 12:57

	23-10-2003 07:53									#136
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Re: LEF4, I'm not sure if it will be necessary. Perhaps GS has some forces in the wings, but Pamplona is likely going to put RP out of the battle for Bob.

	23-10-2003 08:56									#137
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I am inclined to agree with Kloreep. I think perhaps sending LEF4 is not necessary. Unless GoW or ND specifically requests more troops, I think we should just stick with what we have.

	23-10-2003 13:35									#138
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Agreed. Surely we are going to have little need for more troops on Bob. We should start concentrating on a defensive policy for Lego....

	24-10-2003 00:13									#139
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As it stands, it very questionable whether LEF1, 2, and 3 will see any action. I don't see a need for LEF4.

Am I (and others) missing something?

	24-10-2003 00:19									#140
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Most likely, there really is no need for LEF4. I thought that having three more knights over on Bob might strenghten our negotiating position in case things do not go exactly our way (either way), but after checking with the allies this evening, it seems even they do not feel any urgent need for LEF4.

So, let's keep all our knights beyond LEF1-3 on Legos, ready to sail over to Bob if needs be (with ships ready).

(alliance chatlog to be posted shortly)

EDIT: I also did not want to have us look as "backing out of the conflict" - but if our allies themselves said they saw no need for more Lego troops on Bob, it's just fine.

	28-10-2003 12:39									#141
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Alright - reviewed the save and found only two very minor improvements (one thanks to the newly uncovered bonus grassland in the Jackson radius, the other one in Ahhmyfoot - one extra commerce by working the now unworked riverbank plains instead of the mined bonus grass; no shield loss thanks to the pop growth) and one mix-up (Ming left F'ville last turn, so he can't be sent down towards Oasis).

Going to play the turn now.

	29-10-2003 00:41									#142
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Plans for 310AD (Turn 147):


Unit Movement/Actions

1) L.V. to move W-W-NW, then fortify
2) J.K. to move W-W-SW skip turn, then fortify waiting for LEF4
3) N.C. to move N-N and fortify
to extend the maritime area we can "see" (early warning screen... just in case)

4) G.B. to move W-W-SW, returning home

5) I.N. to move N-N and N or NW, depending on if N is ocean or not

6) G.G. to move S-S-W, scouting


7) Minos to move SE and fortify in Forkmouth
8) Merril to fortify in Farmerville
9) St. Merc to move SW and fortify in Karina
10) Dyetrich to move SW and fortify in Ahhmyfoot
11) Merc Twain to move S towards the Tipperary site
12) Darth Merc to fortify in Tiberium

13) Gareth to move SE-E-E-SE-S, then fortify in the Zargonia-Crossing white camp (will become part of LEF4)

14) LEF1 (Troy, Hunter, Victor) to move E-E, then fortify
15) LEF2 (Misty, Silver, Attila) to move NW-N
16) LEF3 (Arthur, Horace, Lancelot) to move NE-NE

17) Settler 'Horsefish' to move SW towards the Horsefish site
18) MercG to move SW, escorting Horsefish

19) new catapult finished in Red Bricks to be named 'Trasher' and moved SE-S-SE, towards the TarZar white camp

19a) Alexander to move S-SE-S-S and fortify in the TarZar white camp; will become part of LEF4


Worker Movement/Actions

20) Charlie to road, then mine

21) Stanley to road

22) White to move SW, then clear jungle
23) Yellow to move SW, then clear jungle
see the GA thread for the Dye Fields plan

24) Adam to road, connecting the saltpeter

25) Frank Jr. to road, connecting saltpeter

26) Fritz to road

27) George to road, then mine

28) Jason Jr. to move N, then road towards the Castlea site

29) Jack to road, then mine

30) Rover to mine
31) Luke to move SE and mine, helping Rover

32) Chris to mine

33) Jimbo to mine

34) Ken to move W-W, then road


City Management

35) Legopolis to work all improved riverbank tiles and two irrigated grasslands

36) reassign Red Bricks labourer from the roaded/irrigated grassland SW back to the roaded/mined regular grassland W-SW of the city

37) Logville to work wheat, both full improved hills, irrigated grass, irrigated plains, and 1 irrigated grass

38) reassign Tarzania labourer from a hill to the roaded/mined bonus grassland W-SW
courthouse still in 1, 1 extra food

39) Ahhmyfoot to work both irrigated riverbank plains and the roaded/mined bonus grassland SE

40) Crossing to work irrigated grass and two mined hills

41) Tiberium to work all roaded tiles


42) check research slider for possible savings not affecting the M.T. completion

Last edited by vondrack on 01-11-2003 at 10:51

	04-11-2003 03:24									#143
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Plans for 320AD (Turn 148):


Unit Movement/Actions

1) L.V. to move W-NW and fortify, getting ready for ferry duties (LEF5)
2) J.K. to load LEF4 and sail E-E-NE
3) N.C. to move S-S-S, getting ready for ferry duties, if needed
4) G.B. to move S-S-W, returning home
5) I.N. to move N-N-W, scouting
6) G.G. to move S-SW-W, scouting

7) Settler 'Horsefish' to move SW to the Horsefish site
8) MercG to move SW, escorting Horsefish

9) Merc Twain to move S towards the Tipperary site

10) LEF1 (Troy, Hunter, Victor) to move E-E-fortify
11) LEF2 (Misty, Silver, Attila) to move NE-NE
12) LEF3 (Arthur, Horace, Lancelot) to move NE
EDIT: change to LEF3 plan. E-E is impossible. Plus, we want to stay on the road, to get the most out of RoP on the next turn

13) Gareth to move N-N and embark J.K., becoming part of LEF4
14) Alexander to move E-SE and embark J.K., becoming part of LEF4
15) Gawain to move E-SE and embark J.K., becoming part of LEF4

16) Trasher to move SE-SE-SE, towards the TarZar white camp

17) upgrade Mercurio and Merciless (Jackson garrison) to musketmen, getting ready to form LEF5 together with Geraint or Blaster (? discuss!)

18) Meriadoc (D.F.) to move N-NW and fortify
19) Mercus Aurelius (Tarzania) to move NW-N and fortify
20) Merril (F'ville) to move E-E-E, then to TarZar white camp
21) Max Payne (TarZar W.C.) to move N-N-NW
some shuffling aimed at pulling two new vet mercs to Jackson (as the current Jackson garrison should leave for Bob very soon)

22) new settler from F'ville to move NW-NW-NW NW-N-N, moving to found Port Hammer Castlea, completing our Northern city plan
EDIT: I somehow oversought Castlea is still not there...

23) new knight from Panama to be named 'Galahad' and moved SE-SE-SE-SE-E-E


Worker Movement/Actions

24) Jason Jr. to road towards the Castlea site

25) Michael to move NW, then road & irrigate
part of the GA preparations + extending the irrigation system towards the Castlea site

26) White to clear jungle
27) Yellow to clear jungle
see the GA thread for the Dye Fields plan

28) Martin to mine

29) Peter to move S-SE and irrigate
30) Patrick to move S-SE and irrigate
then W&irrigate, bringing water to S'haven

31) Bill to move SE, then road & mine the horse hill

32) Philippe to irrigate

33) Ken to road


City Management

33a) Legopolis to work all 6 hills and all 4 remaining riverbank tiles
with WLTKD gone, we are now having 1 shield wasted in Legopolis; with a food-neutral setup, we will nail Bach's exactly in 5 turns (2 turns faster than with the recent WF setup), getting back to WLTKD and resuming growth only then

34) Jackson to work all 6 grasses and 2 hills (free the hill SW-SW for Legopolis)

35) Farmerville to work all 3 floodplains, both bonus grasses and both roaded/mined regular grasses; start another settler

36) Panama to start another knight

37) reassign Tarzania labourer from the roaded/mined grassland W-SW to the fully improved hill NE of the city; start musketman
37) reassign Tarzania labourer from the fish to the fully improved hill
musket in 5 at -1fpt; we'll do the next musket in 6 at +1fpt to balance that out; we cannot do it the other way round, since some food would be lost at pop 6 and full foodbox

37a) change Sharpehaven production to musketman
we have mercs more than enough, let's switch to muskets wherever possible

37b) reassign Kloreepville labourer from a hill to the irrigated grassland E-NE
we can switch back on the next turn... but if we uncover a bonus grass W-NW, we will gain food this way

38) set the research slider to 30%
Music Theory still in 1 turn, bur more gold to our treasury

39) send saltpeter to GoW as 'accepted'
make sure to upgrade the Jackson mercs and set/change builds for S'haven & Tarzania first

Last edited by vondrack on 07-11-2003 at 04:45

	04-11-2003 19:21									#144
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

39) Check the science slider; we might be able to lower it and still get MT the following turn
Oops, this was already included in the turn plan. Somehow I didn't see it. It must be my age

39) Gift Chivalry to Vox ?

	04-11-2003 19:26									#145
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius 40) Gift Chivalry to Vox ?

Sounds like a good idea... though, I would first check with Voxes, whether they wish to get it (maybe not, if they are building shield-cheap horses, intending to upgrade them later...

	07-11-2003 03:20									#146
	Put an end to popups!

Something important has been brought up in the alliance chat today. I told Aggie we have just hooked up our first saltpeter (and would be able to send it, if needed). He asked me to send it, in order to allow both GoW and ND keep upgrading their defenders (they seem to have only one source for both of them ATM).

I believe it's not a problem, since we upgrade and change our builds on this turn... and get another source in 4 turns, when F'mouth radius expands to cover the source near Sandonorico.

Any objections to adding "send saltpeter as accepted to GoW"?

	07-11-2003 03:29									#147
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I guess they do kind of need it at the moment... no objection.

	07-11-2003 04:37									#148
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Several more adjustments/tweaks to the turn plan - make sure you check it one more time, please.

I suggest we wait few more hours so that we hear most of our members on the GS diplo note issue and here about the saltpeter thing. Also - note the WF changes for Legopolis, Tarzania, Kloreepvile, and Sharpehaven.

I will be able to play the turn in about 6 hours, after I wake up - that could just be the right time, I guess... for once, it would be us taking a bit longer with the turn...

	07-11-2003 08:50									#149
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Give the Saltpeter, no problem.

	07-11-2003 09:29									#150
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Why don't we just give GoW and ND all of Legoland while we are at it!

You are talking about giving them our first saltpeter while we would have to wait for 2 turns for the 2nd one.

This alliance is getting ridiculously lopsided in their favour - on our side we give Gunpowder for nearly free, 1 dye to each of them and send 9-12 knights PLUS some muskets for their defense and now proposing going to war with them against GS at the risk of our units dying for what benefit to Lego? (Meanwhile we couldn't stop even a minor invasion of Lego right now if we had too!)

In exchange they are giving us 3 luxuries, a tiny amount of gold for the accelerated gunpowder research and while they are gaining a stranglehold on Bob and pummelling GS and RP.

Sure looks a fair trade to me - NOT!

Especially if they turn on us - we will have contributed to weakening our only possible ally - GS - who would still be angered about us going to war with them. Or if they attack GS on Stormia we will be stuck with the same situation as above if we decide to help defend GS.