06-08-2003 04:22									#2
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Goodoh. The other one didn't have quite the usual ring to it with such a bland title.

quote: As for that particular goose - well I'm sure the unrepentent attitude of the coaches will make the AB game very interesting.

Corne Krige speaking on arrival in New Zealand:

"You know, in the week before the game the Australians tried to build it up, saying it was going to be physical. Then after the game, there always seems to be a lot of moaning from them," Krige said.

Yes, Corne, but there's a difference between physical and foul.

"I think Tana Umaga summed it up when he said it's not tiddlywinks. It's a physical game."

Corne, I don't think Tana is going to appreciate you (a) taking his comment out of context; and (b) implying that he, like you, equates physical with foul. You see, Corne, Tana is a classic example of a very physical player who understands the difference.

"The people here really love their rugby. New Zealand plays a physical game but we have never had problems after the game."

Yes, Corne, the ABs play a physical game, but not a foul game. The Boks have also, to my knowledge, not yet served up the same foul tactics to the ABs that they have to England and the Wallabies. Try it and see what sort of post-game response you get.

Good grief, Clive Woodward even sent a supportive email to Eddie Jones on the matter of Eddie's stance. Hopefully Eddie didn't have Clive's email address on his spam filter list.

	06-08-2003 04:56									#3
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quote: Interesting – I thought the populations were fairly comparable – and Londoners can be almost as surly as New Yorkers. It should have been home from home - is it the lack of huge towers everywhere that does it?

London is more spread out, so yeah, you don't really get too many buildings higher than the average brownstone in NY. The only time I felt like I was in a place comparable to NYC was when I went to the docklands.

quote: Yes Directors is a good pint – and it has maintained it’s quality through the decade of brewery consolidation. Tetley’s is tricky – it can be okay but I’ve seldom found a pint worth drinking south of Sheffield.

Probably because the prices are so high these days. Last time I was in London (5 years ago) you could get a pint of bitter and a pint of lager for under 4 quid. Now it's over 5 at most places.

How much for a pint where you live?

quote: I feel for you – I really do.

She streched me to breaking point...

	06-08-2003 05:29									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia How much for a pint where you live?

The cost of the length of garden hose that he's run from the nearest brewery to his place, in through the window, to the Jason Recliner in front of the telly.

Edit. Chaps - the 26th post in this thread will take us to a total of 5,000 posts since we started these dedicated rugby threads. I'm sure the world is a better place because of them.

	06-08-2003 12:55									#5
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quote: Tana is a classic example of a very physical player who understands the difference.

Remarkably clean ON the pitch. Has had a few brain fades off of it I understand?

quote: Try it and see what sort of post-game response you get.

They may well try it – it’s there best chance of disrupting an on song ABs side. Big test for the inexperienced AB skipper to keep his men under control if it all gets nasty.

quote: Good grief, Clive Woodward even sent a supportive email to Eddie Jones on the matter of Eddie's stance. Hopefully Eddie didn't have Clive's email address on his spam filter list.

Clive has faults – and he may appear psychotic to you during a game – but he detests dangerous foul play. Always has – to his credit.

quote: The only time I felt like I was in a place comparable to NYC was when I went to the docklands.

I have to say I prefer the low rise vista – and the mixture of buildings from hugely different periods.

quote: How much for a pint where you live?

You have found one of the reasons I don’t like London. Typically in my home town a session bitter would be two pounds – standard lager and premium bitters (like Directors, Abbot or Pedigree) around two pounds thirty (as is most cider) and Premium lagers (Stella, Kronenbourg) about two pounds sixty. I could draw a higher salary working in London – the cost of housing and associated living would more than wipe it out.

Next time you visit keep you eyes out for a chain of pubs called JD Wetherspoon – these are huge places that always undercut the opposition. They achieve it by dealing in huge volume directly with brewers and by taking ‘late’ stock (beer within a month or so of it’s best before dates). The late stock is no problem as they shift huge volume very quickly. I’m sure there is a JD just around from the Houses of Parliament as it happens…

quote: She streched me to breaking point...

Was this before the shopping started?

quote: The cost of the length of garden hose that he's run from the nearest brewery to his place, in through the window, to the Jason Recliner in front of the telly.

If I ever find your surveillance cameras you are in big trouble Finbar.

quote: I'm sure the world is a better place because of them.

Well I have enjoyed it – even if others have not.
So what is a sensible margin for Saturday? It’s in Dunedin isn’t it – where only Lions and Wallabies (in a huge shock) have triumphed? Factor in the form of the ABs and Boks and you are looking at 21 points or so I’m sure – does that give us grounds for betting?

Clive has declared that he will not field full sides in any of the three warm up games but will still field a side ‘capable of taking on anyone in the world’. I can see why the Aussies labelled him ‘The Ego’ sometimes. Of course when you look closely at that phrase its meaningless – anytime any side takes the field it is ‘taking on’ the opposition – even if it concedes a ton to them.

	06-08-2003 16:25									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Remarkably clean ON the pitch. Has had a few brain fades off of it I understand?

Not for a while, unless I've missed something. Happily married with kiddies now. Maybe you should consider it as a cure for your fades.

quote: Clive has faults – and he may appear psychotic to you during a game – but he detests dangerous foul play. Always has – to his credit.

quote: If I ever find your surveillance cameras you are in big trouble Finbar.

Your Intelligence Services might have c*cked up the WMDs - well, I'm sure they didn't, the Spin Meisters did - but they keep me well in touch with your habits. Your case file is stored in a vat of pure alcohol.

quote: Well I have enjoyed it – even if others have not.

Cripes, it keeps me sane!

quote: So what is a sensible margin for Saturday? It’s in Dunedin isn’t it – where only Lions and Wallabies (in a huge shock) have triumphed? Factor in the form of the ABs and Boks and you are looking at 21 points or so I’m sure – does that give us grounds for betting?

Yes, Dunedin. The House of Pain. Is 21 points enough? The Bok coach is likely to make his usual 139 changes to the team. I notice Mitchell is still playing around with his pack. I assume Devine's demotion is to give Marshall more game time. I'm still willing to bet Marshall won't be there when the real thing happens.

quote: Clive has declared that he will not field full sides in any of the three warm up games but will still field a side ‘capable of taking on anyone in the world’. I can see why the Aussies labelled him ‘The Ego’ sometimes. Of course when you look closely at that phrase its meaningless – anytime any side takes the field it is ‘taking on’ the opposition – even if it concedes a ton to them.

I think we all know what he meant. You know, sometimes you can make Alastair Campbell look like a dribbling idiot.

	06-08-2003 17:49									#7
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quote: Maybe you should consider it as a cure for your fades.

I did. Briefly.

quote: Your case file is stored in a vat of pure alcohol.

In which case I demand my right to see it – preferably by drinking my way through to it.

quote: Cripes, it keeps me sane!

Not a claim I would ever presume to make for myself.

quote: Is 21 points enough?

Maybe not – out aim is to make it attractive enough for someone to back the Boks right? Another fifty pointer would not surprise me too much.

What does Caligastia think about the half back situation – it looks like Mehrtens is totally out the frame whatever happens as well. How much are they relying on Carlos – and does it make them as vulnerable as England are with Wilko?

quote: I think we all know what he meant. You know, sometimes you can make Alastair Campbell look like a dribbling idiot.

When I set my mind to it I can spin a decent spin.

However Alastair, if he had any involvement with yesterdays leak calling Dr Kelly a ‘Walter Mitty’ character, has proved he is a lower form of life than I could ever manage to be.

	06-08-2003 18:05									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I did. Briefly.

Just think. Two lengths of garden hose in through the window instead of one. His and Hers.

quote: Maybe not – out aim is to make it attractive enough for someone to back the Boks right? Another fifty pointer would not surprise me too much.

That's what I mean. I'd be surprised if they got within twenty one.

quote: What does Caligastia think about the half back situation – it looks like Mehrtens is totally out the frame whatever happens as well. How much are they relying on Carlos – and does it make them as vulnerable as England are with Wilko?

There is that. Carter replaced him when he went off with the hammy twinge and they were nowhere near as fluent.

quote: However Alastair, if he had any involvement with yesterdays leak calling Dr Kelly a ‘Walter Mitty’ character, has proved he is a lower form of life than I could ever manage to be.

Well, the other Kelly - the spokesman - has taken the blame. Claiming he thought the comment to a journo was off the record.

I just saw a piece on TV about England's smallest county - Rutland. Where is it?

	06-08-2003 18:33									#9
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Fairly near to where I am sat - Rutland occupies NE Leicestershire. It has only very recently been incorporated as a county again - losing that status as it was absorbed by Leicestershire in the early 70s.

Whilst it is called a county all its essential services are in fact contracted out to Leicestershire County Council.

It has been given nominal independence for one main reason - it's a very very rich area indeed and the residents didn't like to think of themselves as being just a small part of a fairly affluent county - but rather the main part of a very affluent one.

The county town, Oakham, you would like - a real rural town with some superb architecture and yet modern enough to be fairly bustling at times. It also hae some superb public houses including one right by the station that has it's own micro brewery.

The county also holds a large artificial reservoir (by English standards) that is worth a visit. They 'sank' a village to make it and in high summer the church can be seen...there still exists a road that terminates abruptly as it disappears into the water...very English.

	06-08-2003 19:08									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I have to say I prefer the low rise vista – and the mixture of buildings from hugely different periods.

NYC has quite a mixture of buildings from different periods too, but none as old as some of the ones in London of course. Actually the Docklands reminded me more of sterile Singapore with all those sparklingly clean streets and shining towers of glass and steel.

quote: You have found one of the reasons I don’t like London. Typically in my home town a session bitter would be two pounds – standard lager and premium bitters (like Directors, Abbot or Pedigree) around two pounds thirty (as is most cider) and Premium lagers (Stella, Kronenbourg) about two pounds sixty.

erm...that's not really any cheaper than London.

quote: Next time you visit keep you eyes out for a chain of pubs called JD Wetherspoon – these are huge places that always undercut the opposition. They achieve it by dealing in huge volume directly with brewers and by taking ‘late’ stock (beer within a month or so of it’s best before dates). The late stock is no problem as they shift huge volume very quickly. I’m sure there is a JD just around from the Houses of Parliament as it happens…

I've been to one in Shepherds Bush, they are great places. They have a more relaxed atmosphere - from what I remember there were no pokies.

quote: Was this before the shopping started?

With shopping I can either drag myself around with her or run the risk of her splashing out on a 150quid handbag or something...so I went to the pub while she shopped. Luckily the credit card was spared.

quote: Well I have enjoyed it – even if others have not. So what is a sensible margin for Saturday? It’s in Dunedin isn’t it – where only Lions and Wallabies (in a huge shock) have triumphed? Factor in the form of the ABs and Boks and you are looking at 21 points or so I’m sure – does that give us grounds for betting?

Doesn't finbar have a local paper that provides betting margins? Perhaps if he looked at that it would give us some idea.

quote: What does Caligastia think about the half back situation – it looks like Mehrtens is totally out the frame whatever happens as well. How much are they relying on Carlos – and does it make them as vulnerable as England are with Wilko?

Not quite as vulnerable I don't think, simply because Wilko is a much better goal kicker than Carlos - which makes him a better all-round player IMO.

As for the half back situation, I tend to agree with finbar - that Devine will be the first choice in the more important games. Gosh! What have things come to when a game against the Boks is not considered important? It's almost a shame to see them struggle so much...almost

Pity about Mehrtens...I don't really know why he has been dropped, he's good with the ball in hand as well as being a fantastic kicker.

	06-08-2003 19:54									#11
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quote: Actually the Docklands reminded me more of sterile Singapore with all those sparklingly clean streets and shining towers of glass and steel.

Yes that is a very good description of that area.

Of course it used to be a hugely deprived area of the city…

quote: erm...that's not really any cheaper than London.

I found it to be significantly cheaper myself – you may have been lucky in where you went. Last time I went down for a day (last November) it was typically £3 a pint at least. Still we were in Kensington I suppose.

Yes no pokies in Wetherspoons – no jukeboxes or TVs either – pure drinkers pubs. I love them at all times except when big rugby games are on.

quote: so I went to the pub while she shopped.

top man!

quote: Doesn't finbar have a local paper that provides betting margins?

I always thought he freestyled them?

quote: Not quite as vulnerable I don't think

I suspect you are right – I’d like to get to see the ABs without him for a half to get a real feel for it.

Maybe Mehrts provoked one PR liability too far – who knows? He has been dropped at club level recently too though right?

	06-08-2003 20:37									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I found it to be significantly cheaper myself – you may have been lucky in where you went. Last time I went down for a day (last November) it was typically £3 a pint at least. Still we were in Kensington I suppose.

That's funny...we were staying in Kensington, so most of the pubs we went to were in that area. I never paid more than £2.80 a pint. Did you ever go to the Churchill? It's on Church street (pic below). Very nice place. they had several good ales, and have turned a small area in the back into a Thai restaurant.

quote: Maybe Mehrts provoked one PR liability too far – who knows? He has been dropped at club level recently too though right?

Really? I didn't hear that...surely the Canterbury NPC team will be wanting him what with most of their AB players being rested for the RWC.

	06-08-2003 20:41									#13
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	06-08-2003 21:04									#14
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Pints even in central london should be no more than about £2.80, unless you go to to some poncey wine bar in which case you deserve what you get.

Anyway, everyone in this thread should be drinking at the Cabbage Patch in Twickenham if they visit London.

	07-08-2003 01:02									#15
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Seriously fellas, if you can go to Ye Old Swiss Cottage, located in Swiss Cottage funnily enough - NW London. £1.90 pints of Aylinger Ur-Weisse - a delightfully hoppy German lager bursting with fruit flavours at 4.0% - or you could go their stronger lager, the Pills at 5.9% for £2.40 . I can't understand why the place isn't packed constantly.

Certainly it pisses all over that gut rotting fart producing turd blackening melange that the English call Bitter. With no offence to Havak or course.

	07-08-2003 01:27									#16
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quote: Pity about Mehrtens...I don't really know why he has been dropped, he's good with the ball in hand as well as being a fantastic kicker.

He was, but he's been off injured for too long for Mitchell to consider him seriously. I also hear he still has a few personal issues he needs to sort out. He's been starting on the bench a lot for Canterbury, McLean electing for Charlie Hore instead. I think Spencer is the best choice for the ABs - he's also got good vision, can vary it, and is key to our backline attack. Hopefully he can sort his kicking out, he used to be able to do it once upon a time.

	07-08-2003 05:52									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Havak The county town, Oakham, you would like - a real rural town with some superb architecture and yet modern enough to be fairly bustling at times. It also hae some superb public houses including one right by the station that has it's own micro brewery. The county also holds a large artificial reservoir (by English standards) that is worth a visit. They 'sank' a village to make it and in high summer the church can be seen...there still exists a road that terminates abruptly as it disappears into the water...very English.

It looked a charming place. Oakham, in particular. There's a famous old school there, too. It gave the world Stephen Fry so it can't be all bad. Oh, and Boris Karloff spent time there, too. Apparently the reservoir is the largest man-made in England. I'm not sure what its competition might be. There are a couple of dams (or reservoirs) in this country that were created the same way. In one of them, what stand out when the water level drops, oddly enough, are the original trees.

	07-08-2003 06:05									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Doesn't finbar have a local paper that provides betting margins? Perhaps if he looked at that it would give us some idea.

It will be in tomorrow (Friday) morning's paper. Probably a bit late for us. I'll check out some of the online betting operations.

quote: Not quite as vulnerable I don't think, simply because Wilko is a much better goal kicker than Carlos - which makes him a better all-round player IMO.

Mmmm. Yes, Wiko is a much better goal kicker, but methinks Carlos' contribution to the ABs current agenda is massive. Their game is built around him, after all. Wilko's very important to the Poms, obviously, but their game isn't built around him to the same extent.

quote: Pity about Mehrtens...I don't really know why he has been dropped, he's good with the ball in hand as well as being a fantastic kicker.

I read somewhere recently that he had a massive falling out with Robbie Deans at Canterbury (or the Crusaders, wherever Mehrtens and Deans are involved together). Deans is also involved with the ABs. I'm sure that's not the only reason for his demise, though. I think Mitchell probably wanted more than Mehrtens' relatively one-dimensional game. Carlos is not only the playmaker, he's also one of the team's better attacking practitioners. When was the last time you saw Mehrtens break a line? His go was to pass the ball before retreating in the direction of fullback.

	07-08-2003 06:33									#19
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Checked out the online betting organisations. The only one I could find offering a fixed margin was Centrebet which, ironically, gives the Boks 21.5 points start. They are, of course, out to make money. Our Bank A/c isn't.

	07-08-2003 06:35									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog Certainly it pisses all over that gut rotting fart producing turd blackening melange that the English call Bitter. With no offence to Havak or course.

Ah, how we've missed you, Fido.

	07-08-2003 09:42									#21
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quote: Originally posted by finbar The cost of the length of garden hose that he's run from the nearest brewery to his place, in through the window, to the Jason Recliner in front of the telly.

Now we know what to get the man who has everything for his birthday.
One of those auxiliary pipeline pumping thingummies for those low-beer-pressure days.


21 points?! Yikes. I'll be backing the Bokkeroos this time around then I think.

	07-08-2003 13:49									#23
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Now we know what to get the man who has everything for his birthday. One of those auxiliary pipeline pumping thingummies for those low-beer-pressure days.

Redundant. Havak's suction is legendary.

quote: 21 points?! Yikes. I'll be backing the Bokkeroos this time around then I think.

Okay, chaps, we've found a sucker.

	07-08-2003 14:30									#24
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Well we are into ‘small world’ syndrome here – I’m pretty sure I have sat outside the Churchill enjoying a nice quiet pint (or two).

As for confusion over prices well there are expensive places there if you try enough venues – and of course when we are on tour I’m not kitty master, I’m fine master. That’s my excuse anyway.

Regardless of it all the East Midlands is a vastly superior place to live – because Tigers are based here.

quote: Really? I didn't hear that...surely the Canterbury NPC team will be wanting him what with most of their AB players being rested for the RWC.

They are playing him – but Blair is kicking at the sticks. His only real hope of a recall to the AB squad was for kicking I suspect?

Interestingly enough I have also had a few (gallons) in the Cabbage patch in my time too.

quote: Certainly it pisses all over that gut rotting fart producing turd blackening melange that the English call Bitter. With no offence to Havak or course.

Only the British and Irish palette is refined enough to appreciate Real Ale and Stout. The reason your venue isn’t packed is because it specialises in a nationality of lame lager drinks. The only lager with merit comes from Belgium – and that’s only because they drew some nice strong ones that come close to being Ale. German lager sucks ass – even the almost drinkable wheat beer doesn’t come close to the worst pint of Real Ale.

quote: I think Spencer is the best choice for the ABs - he's also got good vision, can vary it, and is key to our backline attack.

Yes – the keystone in fact as we have been saying. Remove that and will the structure stay up? I think Carlos is going to be a marked man this weekend.
Did everyone note Paddy O’Brien stepped into the debate yesterday saying he didn’t think the Boks were excessively violent last weekend? Boy has that man gone downhill since he ruined the last Lions test with his laissez faire nonsense.

quote: There's a famous old school there, too. It gave the world Stephen Fry so it can't be all bad.

There are two in Rutland actually – and they are mainly bad churning out the usual middle class elitist snobs who think the country owes them a living. Fry is an exception not the rule. On the plus side young Lewis Moody is an Oakham alumni so I’ll forgive them this once.

quote: Wilko's very important to the Poms, obviously, but their game isn't built around him to the same extent.

It’s an interesting contrast isn’t it? I suspect if England were so reliant on a single player the SH sides would all be heavily criticising it – in a way we are (Jonno) and to a certain extent they do – so perhaps they should look more closely at the reliance on Carlos as come RWC he is clearly going to be a marked man.

I’m still amazed at all the nonsense floating around the opinion pieces on the BBC and Planet rugby sites where most Kiwis seem to have handed the Webb Ellis trophy to the ‘unbeatable’ All Blacks – that’s just ridiculous at this stage especially given that they aren’t unbeatable. In form yes, fun to watch certainly – but not unbeatable by a long shot. No team is. Pride cometh before a fall – how often has that been the story of the ABs going into a World Cup?

quote: One of those auxiliary pipeline pumping thingummies for those low-beer-pressure days.

I’d settle for my own brewery as well.

	07-08-2003 15:41									#25
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quote: Only the British and Irish palette is refined enough to appreciate Real Ale and Stout.

These are the same palettes that enjoy Salmonella Kebabs and Gardia Tika Masalas. God help you all.

quote: German lager sucks ass – even the almost drinkable wheat beer doesn’t come close to the worst pint of Real Ale.

I've yet to find the worst pint of Ale - no matter how bad it gets I know there'll always be some point in the future when I’ll drink a worse one. I find it slightly fishy that no matter what pub you happen to be in, after you order your first pint the barman always stops what he's doing and carefully watches you take your first sip.

	07-08-2003 16:03									#26
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We are a hardy bunch thats for sure - but even we don't generally eat Kebabs when sober.

As for the barman he is not watching you because he is worried about the beer but rather because your antipodean accent has alerted him to your origins and he is concerned you may not be able to handle a real drink. He is being the good host and looking out for your health.

	07-08-2003 16:23									#27
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... perhaps...

On the margin for this weekends game, I think the score will be a lot closer than before. The forecast is for rain, so that should help to slow the NZ backline down a bit. Brad Thorn is a bit suspect as a lineout player, which will leave Rueben Thorne expected to actually call and catch. The new front row is okay but I wouldn't put my life savings on them..

The Boks will start off like wild thunder and will smack Blacks around for the first 20-30. Then the ABs will settle and run away with it in the second half.

However, if the Boks target Spencer like you suggest Havak, then we may just see a much tighter game.

Funny how it doesn't matter how wide the gap between the teams are, it is always interesting and unpredictable.. can’t help but luv it huh?

	07-08-2003 17:26									#28
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All this beer talk is making me thirsty. Personally, I'll stick to my Peroni and Stella.

So can we agree on a margin? We left it much too late last week. Sounds like 21.5 will attract money for the Boks?

Edit. Damn! Andydog racked up our 5000th post!

	07-08-2003 19:34									#29
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Stella is drinkable at extreme need - though the UK stuff brewed under licence is vastly inferior to the Belgian original.

I think I'll hold off betting so I can put a wildly optimistic wad on the Wallabies next time.

Not around again until Monday so hope it's a good game Saturday...

	08-08-2003 04:38									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Stella is drinkable at extreme need - though the UK stuff brewed under licence is vastly inferior to the Belgian original.

We get the original imported.

quote: I think I'll hold off betting so I can put a wildly optimistic wad on the Wallabies next time.

Masochist.