11-08-2003 22:26									#61
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Frozzy

quote: This is precisely the Springbok's problem. They haven't had one consistent squad for two games in 10 years. It is very unsettling if your side keeps changing every game.

I expect Mitchell will probably bring the same front row combination he intends to use for the world cup on for the game against the aussies this weekend. It's his last chance to settle on a combination and give them some more experience together before the RWC.

quote: I do. I thought the touch judge was Tapa Henning the amount of times he was making calls for Peter Marshall. Annoying accent, too, had Peter.

I got a bit sick of hearing him bark around the ruck "RARK! RARK! RARK! RARK!" like a bloody chihuahua in heat.

Havak

quote: The moment of the game for me – Chris Jack comes on and the Kiwi co-commentator is almost wetting himself with excitement and says “if you were making a list of the best locks in the world he is right there at the top”. There is then a brief pregnant pause and he follows his own comment with “Of course Martin Johnson might just have a claim there too”. Well, quite.

When he said that I thought to myself "ooh, Havak would love that one!".

finbar

quote: Speaking of RWCs, red-hot favourites, and bombing out. This is for Caligastia. I was reading this morning that the manager of the hotel in which the ABs stayed when the food poisoning hoo-ha erupted has "come clean". A number of the ABs, he claims, defied team orders and ate outside the hotel at a local seafood restaurant, hence the rampant eruptions at both ends. And the truth, he claims, has been kept under wraps by the AB authorities.

It doesn't surprise me that AB authorities did that. Can you imagine the NZ public's rage towards those players if the truth had come out immediately? I'm pretty pissed off at them myself after hearing that. And you can hardly blame those of us who believed the claim that SA intentionally gave the ABs food poisoning when you take South African rugby's dubious past into account.

However...for me this still doesn't remove the taint from the 95 RWC final. Half the NZ team had food poisoning, so the Springboks beat a sick team by a penality kick 20 minutes into overtime. If the ABs had been healthy there is no doubt in my mind that the RWC would have been theirs. That they were able to match the Boks for the full 80 minutes despite being sick is a testament to that.

	12-08-2003 04:14									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia However...for me this still doesn't remove the taint from the 95 RWC final. Half the NZ team had food poisoning, so the Springboks beat a sick team by a penality kick 20 minutes into overtime. If the ABs had been healthy there is no doubt in my mind that the RWC would have been theirs. That they were able to match the Boks for the full 80 minutes despite being sick is a testament to that.

Yes, well, Havak still blames Campo for England blowing its only chance at RWC glory because the England players listened to Campo instead of their coach and changed tactics on the day. The further irony, of course, being that they qualify as the only people ever to listen to Campo.

Oh, and I have officially registered Tamerlin with Interpol as a Missing Person.

	12-08-2003 12:32									#63
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Can we nationalise his gold first?

	12-08-2003 12:51									#64
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He took it with him. Sleeps with it under his pillow.

	12-08-2003 12:57									#65
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I'm not sure I want to be touching gold which has been under a greasy Frenchman's pillow.

	12-08-2003 13:01									#66
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quote: I wouldn't drink it otherwise.

Apologies – I forgot you were their rare breed – a lager drinker with a discerning palette.

quote: The weather was fine, just bitterly cold, and the surface was firm, if a bit dew-affected. Their backline's problem was that they couldn't get the ball

I still think it’s all connected myself.

quote: Well you might wink. With our front row, we will be thumped by the class teams.

That’s what logic dictates I guess – but when has logic ruled rugby? I’m fairly optimistic – I don’t think our forwards would misfire so badly again against the ABs and looking at how the Boks put the Kiwi pack under pressure I know we can do better. I’d also like to vote that he keeps playing the anonymous lock Mr Thorn please.

quote: Yes, the Bok #8 is good. I think Collins is improving all the time.

What happened to the young lad from the last campaign – was it Robertson?

quote: If they want to play the very strong, very disciplined rugby they played on Saturday night, they can push England.

I can’t see them keeping discipline – all the silly talk of ‘revenge’ and ‘retribution’ (words that have no place in rugby) after last November doesn’t show a healthy approach to the pool fixture at all.

quote: Williams is young and promising but, as has been said before, it's a big step from S12 to Test level.

Plus only eight weeks after trying to stand repeatedly on someones head the young man shouldn’t even be playing again yet.

Caligastia

quote: When he said that I thought to myself "ooh, Havak would love that one!".

It was tailor made for me wasn’t it?

Finbar

quote: The further irony, of course, being that they qualify as the only people ever to listen to Campo.

It stands as the most bizarre tactical decision I’ve ever seen an England side make – and that includes seeing Healey at Fly Half last November. If it was Campo’s nonsense that provoked it, and I still suspect it was, then it truly would stand alone as the only time his mind games bore fruit.

Nothing that Campo says is going to change our coach or our skippers mind this time around I suspect. Doesn’t mean the result will be any different of course.

	12-08-2003 13:36									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Frozzy I'm not sure I want to be touching gold which has been under a greasy Frenchman's pillow.

Actually, I'll have you know that Tamerlin is frequently mistaken for a young Jean Paul Belmondo!

	12-08-2003 13:45									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Apologies – I forgot you were their rare breed – a lager drinker with a discerning palette.

My preference, of course, is for a crisp Pino Griggio or a mellow Valpollicella.

quote: I still think it’s all connected myself.

What? Climatic conditions? Or that their backs are as dependent on their forwards as any other team?

quote: I’d also like to vote that he keeps playing the anonymous lock Mr Thorn please.

I don't like your chances much.

quote: What happened to the young lad from the last campaign – was it Robertson?

Didn't he disappear overseas? Or was that Robinson?

quote: I can’t see them keeping discipline – all the silly talk of ‘revenge’ and ‘retribution’ (words that have no place in rugby) after last November doesn’t show a healthy approach to the pool fixture at all.

My point exactly. That's why they're so infurating. When they put their minds to it and play rugby, they can be very effective, if impotent in the try-scoring department. Although, I have to say, that winger looks like he could do some damage with some space.

quote: It stands as the most bizarre tactical decision I’ve ever seen an England side make – and that includes seeing Healey at Fly Half last November. If it was Campo’s nonsense that provoked it, and I still suspect it was, then it truly would stand alone as the only time his mind games bore fruit.

Oh well, if one is going to score once in one's life, it might as well be a biggie!

quote: Nothing that Campo says is going to change our coach or our skippers mind this time around I suspect. Doesn’t mean the result will be any different of course.

Thank goodness we have England's inherent capacity for self-destruction up our sleeves.

	12-08-2003 14:25									#69
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I thought this weekends game wasn't as bad as the kiwi press made out.

Mitchell was looking for the opportunity to work different combinations of forwards and this was the ideal time to take it. The Boks played their hearts out on Saturday, probably the best they are capable of playing at the moment, and that forward pack of theirs is bloody good - stifling the kiwis of possession and space. Mitchell now knows for certain that he needs Jack, Mealamu and McCaw if he wants to free up the backs for more of the high speed play that gave us 50 points twice.

It's our back row that needs attention - we need someone to provide a creative spark, to do something different and make some stuff happen. Anyone know where Scott Robinson is at the moment?

But it was a cracking game. It will have served a wake-up call for the All Blacks and given hope to the Spring Boks.

	12-08-2003 16:25									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog Mitchell now knows for certain that he needs Jack, Mealamu and McCaw if he wants to free up the backs for more of the high speed play that gave us 50 points twice.

I'm not sure what he was doing farting around with the others on Saturday night. I'd've thought the whole world knew they were his main men and should have been getting as much time together as a unit as possible.

quote: It's our back row that needs attention - we need someone to provide a creative spark, to do something different and make some stuff happen. Anyone know where Scott Robinson is at the moment?

I think your backline's fine. The recent points bonanzas prove that. Your problems were elsewhere on Saturday night. The magicians were there ready and waiting but their forwards and defence shut things down. The ball simply wasn't getting out and it's not the backline's job to fix that.

Scott Robertson or Mark Robinson? Robertson has signed with Perignan in the French league for their next season, but both he and Robinson are in the Canterbury squad for the NPC.

	12-08-2003 16:57									#71
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He said 'back row' not 'back line' Finbar.

	12-08-2003 18:08									#72
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Ooops. Silly me for speed reading.

In that case, I totally agree with him.

Who said I wasn't flexible?

	12-08-2003 19:21									#73
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Tamerlin - with regards to certain 'recipes with menaces' situations?

I speed read myself and the filters block out 'England' and 'Self Destruction' quite nicely.

	12-08-2003 20:12									#74
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quote: I'm not sure what he was doing farting around with the others on Saturday night. I'd've thought the whole world knew they were his main men and should have been getting as much time together as a unit as possible.

This is what they're all saying back home. Mitchell believes that the world cup is going to be won by more than just the core team. There will be injuries during the long WC month and so experience on the bench is invaluable. Good on him for making the changes and seizing the opportunity I say.

I suspect Mitchell will concentrate on fine-tuning his team once they have dispensed with the Wallabies this weekend.

	12-08-2003 21:47									#75
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I am back from the Aveyron...

I have not yet read all your rants so don't expect me to be very active for a moment...

But I know that I have not missed too many news as there is no real Rugby played at this time of the year.

	13-08-2003 04:07									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog This is what they're all saying back home. Mitchell believes that the world cup is going to be won by more than just the core team. There will be injuries during the long WC month and so experience on the bench is invaluable. Good on him for making the changes and seizing the opportunity I say.

Yep, he seized the opportunity to prove, once and for all, that Brad Thorn isn't a Test lock. Fair enough.

quote: I suspect Mitchell will concentrate on fine-tuning his team once they have dispensed with the Wallabies this weekend.

With Noriega now unlikely due to injury - no great loss - and reserve prop Glenn Panahoe also unlikely due to injury, our front row, such as it was anyway, diminishes by the hour. Eddie has called up Al Baxter, a young Waratahs prop with half a season of S12 behind him. Such is our plight in the prop department. Kefu is also now only a 50-50 proposition, having recovered from the Kempson blow, but now having tweaked a calf.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that, the other day, John O'Neill opined publicly that the Wallabies should have started rebuilding last year. D'oh!

	13-08-2003 04:12									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I am back from the Aveyron...

A tad warm in your part of the world at the moment, I gather?

quote: I have not yet read all your rants so don't expect me to be very active for a moment...

We wait, as ever, with unbated breath.

quote: But I know that I have not missed too many news as there is no real Rugby played at this time of the year.

Listen! I defended you against a scurrilous attack by Frozzy!

	13-08-2003 04:14									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Tamerlin - with regards to certain 'recipes with menaces' situations?

And I won!

quote: I speed read myself and the filters block out 'England' and 'Self Destruction' quite nicely.

Ah, yes. Selective blindness, a useful debating tool.

	13-08-2003 07:59									#79
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What do you guys think about the recent suggestion by Gregan & Co that the Bledisloe Cup go back to being a 3 test series? Now it looks like they're going to lose it, and be without it for a long time given the same format, they want to do the same thing they said was underhanded when it was suggested by us? They want to move the goalposts, in other words?

	13-08-2003 10:49									#80
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Regardless of any agendas, the 3-Test series for the B.C. is much preferable. The current system is ludicrous. Actually, the whole notion that there are agendas is just as ludicrous. Everyone, on both sides of the puddle, has always preferred the 3-Test series. The problem has always been, as it will be now, fitting in the extra matches. As everyone knows, rugby, like everything else in life, is cyclical. Wait a couple of years and the current top dog will be the underdog. History says so.

	13-08-2003 11:53									#81
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Where will the third match be played?

	13-08-2003 12:05									#82
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When and where? It obviously couldn't happen before next season, anyway, but the extra "home" Test would probably alternate between the two countries. Personally, I can't see how they'll fit it into the schedule without either scrapping the Tri-Nations altogether, or, at a pinch, reducing it to 3 one-off encounters instead of 6 home-and-away.

	13-08-2003 13:08									#83
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quote: I suspect Mitchell will concentrate on fine-tuning his team once they have dispensed with the Wallabies this weekend.

Lets face it the Aussies have no hope – so don’t be surprised if they win will you?

quote: But I know that I have not missed too many news as there is no real Rugby played at this time of the year.

Ah yes but once this weekends last mickey mouse game is out the way next weekend England return to action against Wales and then back to back games with France. As soon as that is over the domestic season starts again (sept 13th).

Best of all even if the Kiwi’s beat the Aussies by the 21 clear points needed to regain the number 1 spot they will only hold it for a week.

quote: Oh, and I forgot to mention that, the other day, John O'Neill opined publicly that the Wallabies should have started rebuilding last year. D'oh!

Typical O’Neill bombast and misdirection. I’m sure he would love the Aussies to have huge underdog status.

quote: A tad warm in your part of the world at the moment, I gather?

Very pleasant here too – what’s it like in NSW this time of year (I was gone by late July when I visited but I recall rain the size of golf balls in Sydney).

quote: Ah, yes. Selective blindness, a useful debating tool.

The best weapon in my armoury.
Plus what you said brooked no debate – being indisputable fact I have no argument with it.

quote: They want to move the goalposts, in other words?

Are you truly surprised by this Caligastia? An Aussie sporting team, currently losing, is looking to change the parameters to avoid it in future – business as usual I would say.

Hell they have had it five years right, and could easily regain it next year (the ABs like England have that unique self destruct function and as ther man says rugger is cyclical). Stop whinging George!

quote: I can't see how they'll fit it into the schedule without either scrapping the Tri-Nations

But here is a thought – what is the longevity of the tri-nations anyway? It’s no secret TV wants it altered (and they rule the game), preferably with England and/or France taking part (fixing their summer tours firmly to the SH and thus meeting the TV agenda) and the most likely consequence of that is it adopting a six nations style of single fixtures that rotate home and away year on year. I do feel personally the home and away nature of the competition weakens it compared to the 6N. When a team wins the 6N without dropping a match they have won at least two games (often three) away from home. Fine this year the ABs have done that – but most years the tri nations champ has not (didn’t the Boks slam the tournament in 98 also?). The single fixture adds an edge to the tournament that I really like - for example to defend our Slam we will need to beat France in Paris – it’s a huge challenge.

	13-08-2003 13:54									#84
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quote: Lets face it the Aussies have no hope – so don’t be surprised if they win will you?

Now take look at this everyone and tell me if you don't think that this is Havak and Finbar subtly working toward another impossibly high betting margin for this weekend's game!

quote: Yep, he seized the opportunity to prove, once and for all, that Brad Thorn isn't a Test lock. Fair enough.

Aye, I would agree that by seizing the opportunity to make the changes he has confirmed that Thorne is an out-and-out defender and is unlikely to have video analysts burning the midnight oil looking for ways to stop him with the ball in hand.

He also found that Collins is too one dimensional and last Saturday's 6, 7, and 8 pose no threat to anyone going forward. Holah was okay, but he was never going to cause panic in the defence, and I'm not convinced McCaw offers much more in attack.

He also found what he needs to do to give his team a Plan B. And they need a Plan B because when their possession and space were stifled on Saturday, they didn't really seem to have any other ideas (which is why I think they need a creative force in the back-row).

I see he's put in our stongest forward pack in for this Saturday, as Caligastia predicted. Greg Somerville comes in for Kees Meeuws at tighthead prop, Keven Mealamu takes over from Mark Hammett at hooker, Chris Jack returns at lock in place of Brad Thorn and Richie McCaw is the openside flank in place of Marty Holah.

Let the thumping commence!

	13-08-2003 13:58									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Typical O’Neill bombast and misdirection. I’m sure he would love the Aussies to have huge underdog status.

In this case, he's right.

quote: Very pleasant here too – what’s it like in NSW this time of year (I was gone by late July when I visited but I recall rain the size of golf balls in Sydney).

Very, very mild winter. I'm still getting tomatoes from a crop I planted in early autumn. Averaging 16-18C every day. Today it's 22C, cloudy and almost muggy. Very odd. Just as it is in the NH. I blame the WMD.

quote: But here is a thought – what is the longevity of the tri-nations anyway? It’s no secret TV wants it altered (and they rule the game), preferably with England and/or France taking part (fixing their summer tours firmly to the SH and thus meeting the TV agenda) and the most likely consequence of that is it adopting a six nations style of single fixtures that rotate home and away year on year. I do feel personally the home and away nature of the competition weakens it compared to the 6N. When a team wins the 6N without dropping a match they have won at least two games (often three) away from home. Fine this year the ABs have done that – but most years the tri nations champ has not (didn’t the Boks slam the tournament in 98 also?). The single fixture adds an edge to the tournament that I really like - for example to defend our Slam we will need to beat France in Paris – it’s a huge challenge.

Yes, I think the Tri-Nations will change to some extent. Just depends how much. It's no secret that both Australia and NZ rank the Bledisloe above the T-N. I also think you're right about the home-and-away aspect. Much more interesting if it's one-off. That's the stupid thing about the Bledisloe at the moment - it falls between the two stools, neither one-off nor best of three, and thus is completely unsatisfactory. But then the current scenario came about as a result of the T-N requirements. I see a nexus that needs to be broken.

	13-08-2003 14:06									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog Now take look at this everyone and tell me if you don't think that this is Havak and Finbar subtly working toward another impossibly high betting margin for this weekend's game!

This is about the sort of drivel one would expect from the J. Paul Getty of the Civ Gold world!

quote: Aye, I would agree that by seizing the opportunity to make the changes he has confirmed that Thorne is an out-and-out defender and is unlikely to have video analysts burning the midnight oil looking for ways to stop him with the ball in hand.

I just think you need a better, stronger lock on the bench because, as I've observed, I don't think Williams is yet good enough away from the lineout. Is Norm Maxwell past it?

quote: He also found what he needs to do to give his team a Plan B. And they need a Plan B because when their possession and space were stifled on Saturday, they didn't really seem to have any other ideas (which is why I think they need a creative force in the back-row).

That's been the Wallabies' problem - apart from a few other things - for the past 12 months. Look at what the Irish did to us last November, look at what the Welsh did to us a couple of months ago.

quote: Let the thumping commence!

Mmmm. On that basis, I think we could be looking at a 45 point margin.

	13-08-2003 14:54									#87
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quote: and tell me if you don't think that this is Havak and Finbar subtly working toward another impossibly high betting margin for this weekend's game!

Finbar and myself co-operating? There’s the killer flaw in your argument right there.

quote: In this case, he's right.

Wales are true underdogs. The Wallabies are third favourites at the absolute worst – it’s a question of perspective?

quote: Very odd. Just as it is in the NH.

I heard someone blame Tony Blair yesterday.

quote: I see a nexus that needs to be broken.

And a tricky headache it is going to be for someone – difficult to see any calendar returning to a three game series for ABs-Aussies though. Perhaps it will have to be like the Cook Cup and be contested every single game? Does that devalue it for you? Personally we love it that way (at the moment).

quote: Look at what the Irish did to us last November, look at what the Welsh did to us a couple of months ago.

Not to mention what the ABs did – nor even that in your best game of the year so far England did it to you too.

	13-08-2003 16:44									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Wales are true underdogs. The Wallabies are third favourites at the absolute worst – it’s a question of perspective?

I meant he was right that the Wallabies should have started rebuilding last year.

quote: And a tricky headache it is going to be for someone – difficult to see any calendar returning to a three game series for ABs-Aussies though. Perhaps it will have to be like the Cook Cup and be contested every single game? Does that devalue it for you? Personally we love it that way (at the moment).

I wouldn't have a problem with a one-off. It demands you turn up to play on the day. The 3-Test series is the ideal. I'd, at least, do away with the home-and-away in the TNs, which would create the space for two more Oz-NZ matches.

quote: Not to mention what the ABs did – nor even that in your best game of the year so far England did it to you too.

Actually, I'll include the ABs in with the Irish and the Welsh. England didn't do it quite as much. We got more room - or made more space - against England than against the others. Except for Wales. Now I'm confused.

I made a yummy Self-Saucing Chocolate Pudding for pud tonight. Now I wish I hadn't. I've got a heap of work to do and all I want to do is go to sleep.

	14-08-2003 02:17									#89
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quote: reducing it to 3 one-off encounters instead of 6 home-and-away.

This sounds like a good formula to me. That makes for less matches to show on TV, but that can probably be addressed by other matches. When you meet a team only once, it gives more intensity to the match.

	14-08-2003 04:42									#90
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Yep. The S12 competition suffers with its home-and-away format. It only underlines the unevenness of the competition - twice as many meaningless matches as there should be. Still, it's a cash cow, so it probably won't change.