05-09-2003 00:14									#31
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Regular Thursday alliance chat:

quote: Session Start: Thu Sep 04 20:00:54 2003 Session Ident: #gow_cofa * Now talking in #gow_cofa vondrack: hello! Darekill: Hi! EmpAggie: hi there * Darekill sets mode: +ooo EmpAggie vondrack Zayxus Darekill: vondrack will you set a Password vondrack: is the chatroom name the same every Thursday? EmpAggie: it is vondrack: ok, I will set it to "Alliance" (no quotes) * Retrieving #gow_cofa info... * vondrack sets mode: +k Alliance vondrack: done vondrack: gimme a minute - I will finish something here, k? EmpAggie: alright vondrack: done vondrack: we can start vondrack: unless we are still waiting for someone EmpAggie: we can start Darekill: no not realy maybe some ND touris will come vondrack: ok, Aggie, start then - anything from your side? EmpAggie: not much we have leo's coming uo this turn EmpAggie: we will upgrade 7 horse to riders vondrack: that's cool vondrack: Leo will be handy Darekill: Good I have not so much time have to play the turn though I'm tempted to wait till tomorrow just to show that GS isn'T the only one to delay the thing EmpAggie: next turn we have 5 move but will uograde only 3(due to cost) and send the others south EmpAggie: that would show them vondrack: GS is quite likely maxxing their commerce/research now vondrack: as we moved to #1 in Mfg. goods... EmpAggie: excellent vondrack: seeing Leo's gone will make them very happy, I believe... EmpAggie: yap vondrack: the gunpowder research is going smoothly now vondrack: we will even be able to knock the slider down a notch from the next turn EmpAggie: alright, even more horse to rider vondrack: so you can lower your contributions to 25g each vondrack: for the remaining turns EmpAggie: that will add up vondrack: yeah, I thought you would not mind Darekill: From this or next turn on? Darekill: The map shoud be with you now. vondrack: you may lower it from this very turn Darekill: Ah thanks a lot! vondrack: vondrack: our pleasure EmpAggie: we appreciate it vondrack Darekill: Aggie you need iron now right? vondrack: we can provide iron, if you need vondrack: we have one extra source EmpAggie: yah we need iron Darekill: I think it's better if we give it, then you have it now not one turn later vondrack: that's true EmpAggie: very true and if we need to break it, we won't show we are working together Darekill: Though your help is apriciated Vondrack. Just in case we should realy lose one Iron. vondrack: ok - our iron will be ready, if you need it vondrack: Voxes have one of their own vondrack: so we will always have one extra source Darekill: fine how are they doing? vondrack: and there is one more one we have not connected yet EmpAggie: later when the alliance goes open it will come in handy vondrack: I will get to Voxes later on vondrack: there is something to discuss regarding them vondrack: now, Legoland Expeditionary Forces: vondrack: elite + 2 vet knights land this turn vondrack: nr Arnablanca Darekill: Right above the spices. vondrack: yep vondrack: 3 vet knights land in 4 turns at the same place EmpAggie: good Darekill: Good what we need now is a RoP. vondrack: 3 vet knights land in 5 turns nr Trafalgar vondrack: that's will complete the first wave Darekill: otherwise our Production chain will suffer... vondrack: we are already putting together another one vondrack: do we really need RoP? Darekill: I guess. vondrack: that would only allow our units move faster, right? Darekill: otherwise we loose the tiles where your knights are on. vondrack: if we are not at war, we should not interfere with your economy, I think... vondrack: not sure - must check it Darekill: and they are needed. EmpAggie: i have an idea, you could go iturn north and land near deep dark dungeon, coulkd save some mnovement time and rop issues Darekill: hmm.. you could be right but I'm not sure... EmpAggie: does rp have an embassy with either of you vondrack: not with us EmpAggie: good then they can't see rop EmpAggie: i'll look at a game later to see if units bother production, i don't honestly remember EmpAggie: if you aren't at war Darekill: they had one with us but it is closed due to war. vondrack: yeah - I will check the issue myself, too Darekill: I'll send you an acceptet RoP if we don't need it just don't accept Darekill: brb EmpAggie: do the embassy still let you see even in war because i remember in a single person game that the embassy remains. Darekill see if you can see rp rop's etc vondrack: CONFIRMED (using a hotseat test game) - unless at war, foreign units do not prevent you from using your tiles EmpAggie: excellent vondrack: ok - so no need for an RoP then vondrack: let's save that for later... vondrack: now: Lego dyes for RPers vondrack: I PMed both of you about that Darekill: O.K. fine then no RoP where there is none it can't be seen vondrack: we think that it is a very minor thing that can improve our cover, which seems to be working great so far vondrack: besides - I believe you will cut the trade link very soon, right? vondrack: Aggie already approved the idea, what about you, Darekill? Darekill: Ah yes we approve it too. vondrack: ok, fine vondrack: we are making great progress today Darekill: though it can last some turns till we realy can cut it. Darekill: GS is active down there. vondrack: we have another backdoor ready, just in case... EmpAggie: thats ok any extra pop will just casue them to eat through stores quicker whne we cut it vondrack: we told RPers we would be providing them with our dyes only until Vox finish their first harbour Darekill: BtW RP could not see a RoP. EmpAggie: good Darekill: We can't see theirs with GS. EmpAggie: i was curious about that vondrack: but GS or RP could see the RoP if establishing an embassy with us vondrack: since we are not at war with them yet Darekill: Yes and thats why we do not make it. vondrack: it is unlikely they'd do it, though, I know... vondrack: right * arne has joined #gow_cofa vondrack: now, probably the last thing from my side: vondrack: hello, arne! Darekill: Hi Arne! arne: hi Darekill: Arne is our Board Admin EmpAggie: hi there vondrack: ...there is an interesting situation with GS and Vox vondrack: as you probably know, Voxes are our sworn allies * Darekill sets mode: +o vondrack * Darekill sets mode: +o arne vondrack: they inform us about everything and generally coordinate their actions with ours vondrack: they were fully briefed about our involvement in this war vondrack: now, the situatuion: vondrack: Velocyrix sent them a letter vondrack: in brief: he suggested they make the best out of the chaos on Bob vondrack: and attack GoW possessions on Mystery Isle (aka Baby Bob) vondrack: goes without saying vondrack: they will not do it vondrack: for real, that is vondrack: however, there could be a possibility of STAGING a conflict EmpAggie: humm interesting, i like it vondrack: not sure what benefit it could bring... vondrack: currently, in Lego vondrack: we lean towards letting Voxes do what they wish vondrack: as long as they do not interfere with our/your plans vondrack: and coordinate all their actions with all of us vondrack: as this would be amatter of Vox and GoW vondrack: I would suggest that GoW and Vox get into contact Darekill: As long as it runs along these terms I guess it's GoW to do the decission. vondrack: and discuss the idea vondrack: exactly Darekill: Can i talk now a bit? vondrack: yup, go ahead arne: yes Darekill: O.k. It is about Operation "Sturmbrecher" Darekill: We start it this turn. Darekill: You'll get both a map now from me where our Troops will stay at the end of this turn O.k.? Darekill: just a moment. vondrack: just a side-note: use the grid for your maps, please vondrack: it makes them easier to read vondrack: at least - in the future... Darekill: O.k. still searching for the thing.... EmpAggie: Darekill could you send it to cllco3051@hotmail.com. i am away from my home comp and can't access pictures remotely from here in that account Darekill: So sorry for the delay map is on the way. EmpAggie: no problem Darekill: to cllco3051@hotmail.com too.... EmpAggie: thanks vondrack: got it EmpAggie: also you notices i moved the rider of the road down there for ease of movement for you all Darekill: My question is is it O.K.? EmpAggie: its perfect Darekill: We will leave some troops on the mountain but all Ansar (13) will end at the point marked with an X Darekill: The most Defdivs and Med. infs will move one West. Darekill: Direction Fort Löwenmut. vondrack: well... I do not think our units could make it there in time anyway... Darekill: Well it is more to cooperate with gow Darekill: Before I move them EmpAggie: is there any change you could use any of the defdivs for destroying that road square. there are lots who rally hate loosing a rider to do it. It ok with me, i actually considered moving out wholes stack, then we would probably be safe EmpAggie: or also a catpult could do it too, right Darekill: I'am not allowed to use our troops for that. sorry Aggie but my people won't let me do it and to be honest I think it is your job.. EmpAggie: thats fine, i rider more or less want make difference, actually i don't ind Darekill: Yes I think it'll be worth the sacrifice. vondrack: btw... how are you doing against GS? Darekill: We just lost a Pike for the peek into toledo... EmpAggie: actually it might be to our adavatage, if we move the whole stack there is little change we could take loses Darekill: As I sais befor it is your decission. Darekill: But I think since toledo is empty there will be some GS Catapults on the way. EmpAggie: i'll discuss specifics with ghengis then. Darekill: So maybe it would be better if we can engage the GS next turn together... EmpAggie: i agree Darekill: That's it from my side. EmpAggie: i am eager to see where the gs forces are, so we know exactly where to atatck Darekill: I think either they take the south route via Murcia or the north road to Alamo. Darekill: I'd take the north route. EmpAggie: i'm glad they did this, now we can destroy them and retreat to saftey. If they took the north we can atatck this turn maybe Darekill: and that is the main reason we do not move so far to the east as we could. EmpAggie: good call vondrack: alright... just one more thing - we will need one ROADED tile that will be NOT part of your regular road network (not to create a bottleneck) to stack our units on (near Macao). Can you prepare such a tile, please? Darekill: If you can atack them that would be great. EmpAggie: sure thing vondrack: thanks vondrack: you have about 8 turns to do that vondrack: that's how long it's going until our first group arrives there EmpAggie: how about the roaded tile 2e,1s of macao EmpAggie: would that work EmpAggie: if not i'll send a worker to another place vondrack: the bonus grass? EmpAggie: yap vondrack: already roaded, right? EmpAggie: yes indeed vondrack: seems ok - I will take a closer look and let you know. Perhaps - could you send us your WM? vondrack: if that's not too daring EmpAggie: will do vondrack: I will have to find a place that will allow us maximum operational range vondrack: thanks vondrack: ok, nothing else here EmpAggie: nope all seems well vondrack: fine - next Thursday, then? Darekill: fine then I'll make the turn and send it on. Darekill: All right. EmpAggie: same time same place vondrack: cool vondrack: take care, gentlemen! Darekill: Next thursday will be my last one for three weeks. EmpAggie: also darekill send save to the cllco3051 account please vondrack: vacations? Darekill: I'm going to take a hollyday. I think Borc will take over then. vondrack: ok EmpAggie: have a fun onw Darekill: cllco3051 O.K.! Darekill: I'll have. vondrack: ok, cya! Darekill: Lanzarote is a fine Island. vondrack: bye arne: bye Session Close: Thu Sep 04 21:03:04 2003

	05-09-2003 00:21									#32
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The route for our troops landing nr Arnablance we later agreed upon with Darekill on a separate channel is:

Turn 0: land upon the spice
Turn 1: E-NE
Turn 2: NE
Turn 3: E-NE
Turn 4: NE-NE
Turn 5: NE-NE
Turn 6: NW-N
Turn 7: NE
Turn 8: E-NE
Turn 9: NE & fortify

This assumes no RoP - until we publicly join GoW & ND, there is no need to allow RP/GS to find out we have an RoP with their enemies... so, barring emergency, we will move our units slowly, as if in an enemy territory. BUT - we will do our best to stay away from the roads, to not hamper the movement of GoW/ND troops.

GoW should send us their world map on this turn - we shall use it to pinpoint the best location(s) for the deployment of LEF.

	21-09-2003 12:37									#33
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I am happy to relay a message form Aggie:

quote: Hope all is going well. I am pleased to report a stunning victory over GS forces.(and the best part is they don't know it yet) We destroyed 8knights and 3pike and seized 8catapults and a settler. All for only the lose of 6 ansars and 2 riders. Though huge, this victory is only the open battle in a longer conflict. But nontheless, GS has tasted defeat. Aggie

	21-09-2003 22:54									#34
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Woohoo!

	21-09-2003 23:00									#35
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Hasn't there been any alliance chats since Sept 4? Long time without any discussion I think .

	22-09-2003 00:06									#36
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What are we going to say to the Bob alliance about our following research goal? They may want to push us for Mil. Tradition and we just don't want this yet.

We need Music Theory, then navigation, and after that we'll see. We definitely don't want to rush Mil. Tradition. As much as we want GS hurt, an invasion of Stormia is not what we are looking for, so let's keep this in mind for a future chat.

	22-09-2003 00:23									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Hasn't there been any alliance chats since Sept 4? Long time without any discussion I think .

Sorry, my fault. I regularly attend the alliance chats held every Thursday at 6:00pm GMT and keep in touch with GoW and ND. Last 2 chats were along the lines "we will keep in touch" - nothing really discussed, as the game is progressing so slowly, and I have pretty much forgotten about them just minutes after they were over. I will have a look if I can dig the logs somewhere... just in case someone wants to read through them.

	22-09-2003 00:40									#38
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Found the logs - attaching them. I hope you will be able to get them from here. If not, tell me, and I will upload them to redstar's server.

Mind you... reading these logs is IMHO a waste of time...

Attachment: alliance_chats.txt
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	22-09-2003 03:25									#39
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"A waste of time"......

what are you trying to cover up V? You don't want us to read them do you?

	22-09-2003 06:07									#40
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quote: Originally posted by redstar1 "A waste of time"...... what are you trying to cover up V? You don't want us to read them do you?

Have you wasted your time already?
You'd know what I am talking about...

	26-09-2003 20:30									#41
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OK, this Thursday, the alliance chatlog is worth quick reading, I believe, even if you find no breaking news there... all of the current issues were at least touched - the possibility of an invasion onto Stormia, our research, and the LEF1 route:

quote: Session Start: Thu Sep 25 20:10:30 2003 Session Ident: #gow_cofa * Now talking in #gow_cofa vondrack: hello! Zayxus: hi vondrack: how did you like the resource distribution? Aggie: i have done some calculations and have come to the conclusion that when we have 30 riders near alamo(in 3 turns at most) that atatck on pamploma is possible and could work Zayxus: sounded nice Aggie: it was really nice Aggie: i almost wish gs had gps o they could see it vondrack: LoL vondrack: yes vondrack: I almost feel sorry for them vondrack: all their skill and expertise is not going to help Aggie: me too, just a bad role of the dice vondrack: without saltpeter, they are doomed to fail Aggie: it happens vondrack: yep Aggie: and it usually happens in diety when i actually have a chance to win vondrack: hehe vondrack: well, anything to discuss today? Aggie: actually yes vondrack: ok, go ahead Aggie: what is next on the science agenda vondrack: ah vondrack: to be honest, we are now occupied with a research project of ours vondrack: nothing that affects the war Aggie: that is fine Aggie: good luck vondrack: thanks vondrack: do you feel it is imperative/necessary/important that we rush towards Military Tradition? Aggie: no, since they don't have sp vondrack: exactly my thinking vondrack: I assume the war would be over before we could get to it anyway Aggie: yap, for the next war maybe Aggie: i was aslo thinking and calculating that pamploma could be atatcked vondrack: oops... which one that is going to be? Aggie: no idea actually, i hoped to have a lets finish of gs war vondrack: hmmm, that's is an issue I am bound to discuss Aggie: ok vondrack: since after we found out the distribution of saltpeter vondrack: concerns were raised in our forum vondrack: you will probably remember that we made it clear we would not get involved nor support an invasion of Stormia Aggie: yes i did vondrack: I need to make sure that you understand this still applies vondrack: a war that would involve invading Stormia would not have our support Aggie: it does and actually the desire to invade gs is less, since they are no threat without sp, at least until well into the industrial age vondrack: I am glad to hear that Aggie: to be honest i don't think an invasion as such is even possible at this point vondrack: we are seeking sort of a balance of power in the world vondrack: you & ND on Bob and GS on Stormia are part of this "new order" vondrack: in our thinking Aggie: the only possible atatck considerd by me personally was to atack the old vox area and give it back to them. but never seriously planned vondrack: and - you are correct that with no saltpeter, GS is much less of a threat even if left unharrased Aggie: after this war I'll actually welcome a time of building vondrack: ok, hearing that makes me (and will make the rest of my team) happy Zayxus: to finish that war might take some more time. vondrack: oh - definitely vondrack: I do not expect driving GS back to the sea to be easy Aggie: we still have a long way to go to finsih this one Aggie: i suspect our victory woke them up, they'll avoid mistakes stwice vondrack: their lack of saltpeter is more of an assurance they will not be able to do harm to you than an assurance that you will be able to defeat them easily Zayxus: feel to busy to think about attacking GS at thier continent once Aggie: i agree vondrack: ok, glad to hear that - I will report that to my team Aggie: actually i was thinking along these lines. We take our rp's cities barcelona and pamploma etc and then tell gs we'll give you peace and let you dpart in peace Zayxus: GS is still strong in production and must have still a big lot of ships. Aggie: they are i'm sure vondrack: definitely - they are not to be underestimated vondrack: they may also get a bit desperate once they find out about the saltpeter problem vondrack: resorting to more daring strategy Aggie: yap Zayxus: RP did move units out of Pamplona and GS units re moving in direction of Pamplona vondrack: you better make sure the sources of saltpeter in the Southern Bob are secured by that time Aggie: luckily they think us fr more injured than we truly were byu the battle vondrack: yes, I got that feeling from Arrian's posts vondrack: that's good Aggie: that works to our advanatge Zayxus: Every unit beaten of GS or RP costs us 1 unit lost Zayxus: I assume vondrack: how long before you hook up your saltpeters? Zayxus: ND: may be 5 turns Aggie: right now i am off 2 thoughts. 1) attack abrcelona nd drive up the coast(ignoring the forces in the south) or do we concentrate all at pamploma take it and then do over the moutains Aggie: for us longer vondrack: that's actually pretty fine (the time to hook it), it will confuse them about the source of gp even more Aggie: we have to get the city nearby to eapnd cultural 15+ turns vondrack: we are not going to have ours hooked earlier then in ~7-8 turns vondrack: Aggie - you do not consider building a colony on Baby Bob? Aggie: i considered it but was overruled Aggie: though i'll try afgain Aggie: but have a galley with a slave on its way to there, just incase vondrack: ok... perhaps securing that source on Bob is more important, I am not sure Zayxus: ND might give a second salpeter to GOW? Aggie: that could work, i was going to offer our 3 workers for that purpose, due to indust they work as fast as yours vondrack: we would also be able to provide one saltpeter, but in about ~10 turns, I think vondrack: which may be too late Aggie: the galley will get to baby bob in 8 with the slave worker for possible colony. if the situation rewuires it i think a colony would be approved vondrack: we have sources enough, but they are all, by coincidence, out of our territory vondrack: our current cultural borders, I mean Zayxus: at Aggie: you coould move these worker to salpeter at coast west, if you like. Aggie: well the war is going well so for, my goal is a standing force of 50 riders and we'll rech that in 4 turns vondrack: speaking of workers... we will not be able to move LEF1 this turn as planned, because there is a worker blocking their way Aggie: will do, i was going to road that moutain toward toledo, but this is more important vondrack: we will thus turn to the North Aggie: ok Zayxus: I saw a worker of GOW on a road vondrack: yeah, that's 'im vondrack: sucker... Aggie: yap, thats the one we took to cause war he is mining Zayxus: GOW might move it to salpeter vondrack: our LEF groups will stay out of your roads, to cause no traffic jams Aggie: thats the only downside to using a captured worker from you(they work at the same speed as your), but you can't move past Aggie: thats an idea, i'll cancel this turn, also maybe i'll move the slave to help too Aggie: i mean cancel the mine Aggie: as you noticed the 3 workers just finsihed the jungle road, they'll move next turn Zayxus: By the way: ND canceled two workers at Essigbarfor other uses. vondrack: that would help us, too, allowing us to follow the original route set for LEF1 Aggie: ok Aggie: brb Zayxus: ND will build a road east of Bilbao as reserve connection Zayxus: at vondrack: you sended back gold, right? vondrack: yes vondrack: you sent it twice, so I returned one payment back along with the tech Zayxus: oh, I understand. vondrack: it happens when you intiate the trade twice - a known PBEM bug vondrack: you cannot see it, but it's twice there Zayxus: that is really a hard bug vondrack: yeah... better to do trades and diplomacy at the end of every turn Aggie: we had similar wih the iron trade too vondrack: ok, guys - if there is nothing else to discuss, I'd go... still have some stuff to do here Aggie: thats about all, but thanks for gp vondrack: our pleasure Zayxus: for my part, seems so, thanks Aggie: zayrus if we decided to attck pamploma in 3 turns could you have some asar(not the southern ones) help and defrsninves to sweep in after the victory since we will take it but gift to you vondrack: ok - give my/our best regards to your teammates vondrack: see you in a week Aggie: i will Aggie: cya vondrack: bye Session Close: Thu Sep 25 20:42:09 2003

	27-09-2003 21:40									#42
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Studying the latest save I noticed an interesting fact. This turn we would have been able to sell iron to GS !!
Therefor they must be using the "vox tactics": they disconnect their iron, build some cheap horsemen, then reconnect the iron and upgrade the horses to knights.

I'm not sure whether this info has any importance, but we can share it with our allies.

Actually if I think a bit about it, it is important for us. Why? Because this means that GS is using its huge GNP mostly for upgrades, researching very slowly. We can obtain a significant science lead.
Btw, they still don't have Invention yet. The longer this war will be, the better for us.

	28-09-2003 15:36									#43
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Well spotted. i actually looked at the turn this time and I missed that. I'd say its very significant indeed....

	03-10-2003 04:24									#44
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Could we see the log for the latest chat?

	03-10-2003 13:25									#45
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Sure.

Sorry for not posting it yesterday, but I went to bed right after finishing the turn - felt quite tired.

Here is the log:

quote: Session Start: Thu Oct 02 19:57:36 2003 vondrack: hello, Aggie! Aggiemowa: hi there Aggiemowa: hope all is well vondrack: yup, at least on our side vondrack: and with you? Aggiemowa: things seem to be going good. vondrack: great Aggiemowa: we spotted alarge offensive gs force and it seems to be going toward alamo vondrack: how large? Aggiemowa: and rp has put more troops to our north(of alamao) gs forces =14knights,5mi and rp has 5mi Aggiemowa: +protecting pikes. vondrack: it would be nice to crush that stack vondrack: do you have troops enough to? Aggiemowa: it would be close. at the end of the coming turn we'll have 30 riders in Alamo vondrack: do you plan to attack the stack? vondrack: or sneak past it? Aggiemowa: i lean toward sneaking past it vondrack: letting them attack your defenders in Alamo? vondrack: hello, Zayxus! Zayxus: hello Aggiemowa: hi zayxus vondrack: Zayxus - I need to briefly check something with you, so that I can play our turn vondrack: LEF2 would be moving NE this turn, onto the saltpeter mountain vondrack: is that ok? vondrack: or do you plan to move your workers ther? vondrack: there vondrack: and start connecting it Zayxus: which mountain, there are two with salpeter vondrack: the one nr Arnablanca vondrack: the other one is out of our reach Zayxus: that at Arnablanca is for GOW Aggiemowa: i was debating waiting till the stack was outside Alamo, then atatck pamploma, raze alamo and roads around it, and leave the Gs forces with nothing and mountains to cross, while we rush toward the coastal cities. It is alos possible we could attcak pamploma and get back to Alamo Aggiemowa: sorry I was typing. Our workers are srill 2 away from that mountain, so it is ok Zayxus: yes, agreed vondrack: cool. oh, and - Aggie, LEF3 is landing this turn vondrack: we can land W or SW of D.D.D. vondrack: which one do you prefer? Aggiemowa: ket me see which is best vondrack: I would prefer SW Aggiemowa: sw is fine then vondrack: then E-E, E-E vondrack: k, SW it is vondrack: well, anything else to discuss today? Aggiemowa: not much with the slow pace of turns vondrack: if not, I would go play the turn... Aggiemowa: we will declare war and offer peace this turn to break iron, if it is ok vondrack: with us? vondrack: ok Aggiemowa: after this the bi horse build will be over Zayxus: with ND? Aggiemowa: will need iron in 4 more to upgrade another 10, but I'll wait till then to get iron again Aggiemowa: no with lego,I accepted it from lego last turn since we can break without attacking Zayxus: pretty vondrack: k, just PM me when you need it again vondrack: how come you can't do the same with ND? Aggiemowa: well since we renegotioated peace it can't be broken by negotiation within 20 turns, so we must take worker catpult etc vondrack: ah, right Aggiemowa: a little bug to the war break iron strat vondrack: yeah vondrack: ok, I will stay logged - but will be semi-gone playing the turn Zayxus: all right Zayxus: what does GOW plan to move? Aggiemowa: we'll just move the riders to alamo and start 4 more coming down from the north Aggiemowa: with the 8 catapults we hit the units to the north of alamo Aggiemowa: we had 4 hits and 4 misses Zayxus: did you destroy one? suppose not. Aggiemowa: unfortunately not but the elite mi is down to 4 instead of 5. I figure we can shell and then if they try to move as a grouo back we'll get them then Zayxus: they, RP, seem to collect units Aggiemowa: i think gs is moving toward Alamo with their forces and hopefuylly the think we have less forces than we do and will try to attack it Aggiemowa: rp does I am glad to see them moving out of pamploma Zayxus: me too, when has the time come to attack Pamplona? Aggiemowa: in 300 or 310 Aggiemowa: we will have 34 riders in 300 and 30riders in 300 Aggiemowa: i meant 34 riders in 310 Aggiemowa: the big question is "what will gs stack do" Zayxus: would you take along the catapults to reduce the number of citizens? Zayxus: what happens to Alamo, could it be hold? suppose not. Aggiemowa: well if ALL the GS/rp units we see attck it, with 30 riders in it, it will hold with ease Aggiemowa: i don't know if GS/RP are arrogant enough to think we have little there though Aggiemowa: but why else would rp move troops to that mountain Zayxus: my idea now is: to attack Pamplona from SE of it together with the catapults. Use of catapilts to weaken Pamolona. what do you think? Zayxus: from SW Aggiemowa: that actually is an idea I though of too. Zayxus: still there is a road for the catapults. Aggiemowa: i just don't know and haven't figured if we could do that while defedning alamo Zayxus: until the forest Aggiemowa: and forces there have a 25% bonus Zayxus: that is the point: defending Alamo Aggiemowa: want to hear "EVIL" plan Aggiemowa: we let Gs/rp forces get right next to Alamo. then that turn we attack pamploma, if it is more expensive and we have less than 15riders in Alamo we will raze Alamo and pillage all roads, making them go slowly through hills/mountains Aggiemowa: that same turn our forces could get to the outskirts of new madrid Aggiemowa: next turn the coastral cities fall and barcelona goes under seize Aggiemowa: but the idea of gs/RP forces throwing themselves at Alamo is very tempting too Zayxus: seems a possiuble way Zayxus: at the moment, to keep Alamo: I think: move about 10 Riders near Pamplona with catapults to weaken it from now. MasterZen: yo Aggiemowa: for the record I estimate it will aprox 50 offesnive units to take alamo Aggiemowa: hi there MZ Zayxus: hello MasterZen: greeting fellow Demogypticans and Legomen Zayxus: greetings vondrack: hi, MZ! Aggiemowa: we are just discussing possible strategy Zayxus: GS and RP seems to focus on Alamo, what to do with Alamo, when attacking Pamplona? MasterZen: cool vondrack: I am just... not really here vondrack: playing the Lego turn Aggiemowa: finally vondrack: vondrack: COORDINATION, Aggie, that's the key... Aggiemowa: yes it is vondrack: I did not want to move our knights onto the 'peter until getting clearance from you Aggiemowa: i appreciate that too Aggiemowa: we could always gift alamo to lego and they could gift it to nd with their defesnive units, j/k vondrack: LoL Aggiemowa: though vondrack you know if you like we could arrange to atack a nm with a warrior to trigger your GA vondrack: we know that - but it's generally considered a very cheesy thing to do Aggiemowa: yap it is, you'll have to earn in in real battle vondrack: we would rather do it in a bit more noble way... Aggiemowa: well thebopportunity might come up vondrack: might come up? Aggiemowa: well you never know if gs will invade the north Aggiemowa: in that case you'll probably get a chance MasterZen: Vox might invade you MasterZen: vondrack: Ummm... we do not plan to send any mercs over to Bob. Muskets only. Aggiemowa: ok Aggiemowa: thats fine Aggiemowa: just thought I'd mention it, doubt gs will invade the north anyway MasterZen: yeah I doubt it either, they lost their chance to do it Aggiemowa: and if all goes well in 3 turns either they will have broke up there southern forces on the rocks of Alamo or RP will be virtually dead Aggiemowa: wither way we all win Aggiemowa: of course there is still room for another big GS army somewhere MasterZen: hopefully not vondrack: hmmm... just thought I would mention it... Zayxus: GS must not keep back units on their continent vondrack: Arnelos talked to us vondrack: besides other things that are not worth mentioning vondrack: he said vondrack: they were "gaining ground" vondrack: he seemed to be pretty content about the war MasterZen: hahaha Aggiemowa: i think they all are under the impression that the victory over the stack cost us alot vondrack: just mentioning that... I, too, believe he just does know... but anyway, do not rest on your laurels, guys vondrack: yeah MasterZen: well for the sake of things, let's pretend so Aggiemowa: thats one reason I'm not attacking the force on the moutain, i am encouraging that idea too Aggiemowa: we're not, we have 15 more riders in the pipeline Aggiemowa: and marketplaces to pay for them MasterZen: we turned from raging warmongers to hippie builders MasterZen: peace duuuude! Aggiemowa: yes we did Aggiemowa: but only in a few citiews the rest are still blood thirsty warmongers vondrack: hehe Zayxus: any response of GS to the mail? Zayxus: cease fire with RP? Aggiemowa: RP said no point Aggiemowa: gs i was afraif they'd accept and wanted to get the wording perfect or not at ll Aggiemowa: if they by some means did accept, they could really cause us problems Zayxus: yes GS would get near to Alamo Aggiemowa: yap and would get gp before it ended Aggiemowa: basically we'll have to play the pamploma atatck based on what GS does Zayxus: what might GS paln to do, they seem to collect units Aggiemowa: i am uncertain. They could stay together and go fro alamo or merida, or they could send the knights to alamo attack and MI/Pike to merida. But with rp getting pounded on mountain they have to atatck alamo soon or no help from rp Aggiemowa: if they go for merida, pillaging the roads from there to Alamo could effective. Then we would have the time to deal with Pamploma AND defend Alamo Zayxus: when should Gs attack Alamo, if we were they? Aggiemowa: probbaly turn after next if knights along or let me see map for time if they all atatck Aggiemowa: 320 Aggiemowa: ofcourse by that time we have 36 riders in the south Zayxus: ND could attack those 2 Knights south. what other tasks do you see for the Ansar south? Aggiemowa: harrassment of isolated forces and if they DO send their stack into the open(and they must to get anywhere) it is possible we could attck it with our forces and destroy it Aggiemowa: we might not destroy it in 1 turn but it only contains 17 (3) defense units MasterZen: "only" Aggiemowa: with 30 riders+say 10 ansar we could Aggiemowa: Aggiemowa: I love having these numbers Aggiemowa: the question is "is that victory worth delsying the fall of pamploma" MasterZen: depends on our estimated casualties for attacking that stack MasterZen: and how fast we could recover MasterZen: I think the moral blow of taking Pamplona would be much much better Aggiemowa: yes indeed it would be Aggiemowa: but just wanted to put all ideas out Zayxus: seems to me , too; I just think about to build catapults to attack Pamplona as ND together with musketmen. But would take time to build. Zayxus: I wonder , Pamplona is in such a peace Zayxus: the Pikes around on the hills seem to hold the mountains, but do not cover catapults against Pamplona Aggiemowa: well we have the 8 catpults and I theory we could move enough riders to cover them. But then again in an exchange us outside vs them inside and fortifed, we might take loses doe to catpuls. Also our numbers surprise could be lost Zayxus: right Zayxus: muscets are the better defensive units Aggiemowa: yes Zayxus: at least one catapult near Pamplona should irritate RP. Zayxus: but ND needs more defensive units Aggiemowa: you know id not for all our desires to win quickly, an arguement can be made that time only helps us with our GA's etc Zayxus: what should be thought of, when time passes: be ready to attack GS, when GS moves in the open near Alamo Aggiemowa: brb back figuring troops times Zayxus: ... Aggiemowa: sorry i figured that by 340 we will have 41 riders in position to attack pamploma and that numbers will grown by at least 2 a turn MasterZen: time to cook... * MasterZen is now known as MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew] Aggiemowa: the marketplances will increase that by at around 1 a turn I think Aggiemowa: hummm food MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: hehe, I'm going to eat Chicken today... MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: Gathering Chicken... Aggiemowa: good for you Zayxus: what do you think, when you run against a +100% defense? Do you agree to that? Aggiemowa: my thoughs exactly Aggiemowa: yes no doubt Aggiemowa: +fort MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: why 100%? Aggiemowa: so each pike at pamploma is 6.75 on defesne Aggiemowa: hill+50% pop bonus. MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: Pamplona is not on a hil Aggiemowa: it isn't , are you sure MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: check Aggiemowa: if not we have virtually no problem MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: it's on grassland if I'm not mistaken, do you have the save open? Aggiemowa: nope I can't start civ while on net MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: ok, let me check vondrack: grassland Zayxus: do aou have a very old save to check it without Pamplona? vondrack: just right-click vondrack: I am having the save opened MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: grassland confirmed Zayxus: nice Aggiemowa: Wooooohooo MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: told ya :P Aggiemowa: then pike are 5.25 Zayxus: attacked by 4 points Aggiemowa: yap Zayxus: is it worth it? MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: btw, isn't there a bug in PTW where the walls still count in cities over size 6? Zayxus: before using catapults? Aggiemowa: humm i didn't know about that Zayxus: me either MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: I think there was, i don't know if it has been corrected though Aggiemowa: if so it might as well be on a hill. MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: Trip might know, I'll ask him later

	03-10-2003 13:26									#46
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Aggiemowa: generally we are at this question on pamploma: Is it worth giving up number surprise to waer city down to 6 Zayxus: catapults could destroy walls and number MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: catapults will take A LONG time MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: I don't think it's worth it Zayxus: or coould ND do it with muscets? Aggiemowa: also they can shoot back MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: this attack is based on surprise MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: without surprise it is pointless Aggiemowa: yes, but we're back to the time question again Aggiemowa: . but like i said we only get stronger Zayxus: how long last oour golden age Aggiemowa: our 10 turns your I don't know Zayxus: but GA should not matter Aggiemowa: nope, but then again pamploma in Ga ight give oyu more gold(by the way the turn we take it, we gift it to you Aggiemowa: one thing to remember, after we attack either the Gs stack or pamploma our illusion of weakness is gone and from then on we must press hard to win Zayxus: first Pamplona has to be taken. Aggiemowa: i agree, vox will do a seach for 166 gold Aggiemowa: that will reduce the number sof riders by 2, but is worth it Zayxus: gold of pamolona seems not to be the main argument to me Aggiemowa: after it falls we ned to eliminate rp real quick to avoid flip Zayxus: so GOW needs to survive as many Riders as possible, but against an 5.25 defense how? Aggiemowa: let me estimate the attack, Aggiemowa: i'm assuming 10 (3) defenders + how many catapultsa do you remember form the atack force Zayxus: 5 catapults of RP, I am not sure MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: i estimate 30-40% victories against the first group of defenders MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: after the the defense is hit once, our odds increase to round 50-70% Aggiemowa: here it goes then, Zayxus: I estimate 1 lost for each defensive Aggiemowa: first 10 attack and 7 lose and 3 win, 7left Aggiemowa: next 7 atatck 3 win(i'm being conservative) 4 units left at about 1/4 Aggiemowa: next wave of 4 hit 3 win 1left Aggiemowa: last unit attcks and wins totals...... Aggiemowa: 22 units in attack 11 riders loses 6 die MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: of course if they have more than 10... Aggiemowa: well we have a margin of 8 units Aggiemowa: how many could ND use Zayxus: in 3 turns: 4 Ansars? the rest is south Aggiemowa: thats ok then Zayxus: pikes might move too Aggiemowa: that give us a margin of 12 and if in three turns we have 4 more rides for a margin of 16 Aggiemowa: MZ thats why I want to see more and more units come out of pamploma Aggiemowa: actually with barracks, if gs does atatck we can heal quickly Aggiemowa: if we attack the Gs stack force first, then our force could heal and the asnars from the south could come north too Zayxus: yes, but only the surviving could be healed, some could get lost. Aggiemowa: yes indeed Aggiemowa: thats the problem, with engaging the Gs stack Zayxus: the Ansars will move, when the Ansars are healed where they are now Aggiemowa: of course another option is we keep 18 riders at alamo there and send 12 riders toward the coastal area Aggiemowa: bypassing pamploma Zayxus: north of it ... Aggiemowa: yes Zayxus: nice idea Aggiemowa: by way of that mountain 2ne of pamploma Aggiemowa: we could do this next turn Aggiemowa: no the one to be played but next turn in 300 Aggiemowa: 18 riders fortifiede in a 100% bonus can hold off the GS/RP forces Aggiemowa: it would take apporx 35 units to take alamo with 18 riders in it Zayxus: ...and revealing the troops Aggiemowa: once again thats the problem Aggiemowa: but from the time they are revealed it is 2 turns to the coast and toldedo and GS can't get back in time i think MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: has anyone thought that Alamo might flip? Zayxus: ... there is a road to Madrid: 6 tiles/turn Zayxus: yes offen Zayxus: often Aggiemowa: not with all the trops in it Aggiemowa: but without them it is very possible MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: are you sure? I don't know the flip calculations... Aggiemowa: well here it is MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: don't worry, if you say so I trust you Aggiemowa: (number citizens+number of tiles-troops)/500(since capital is so close) Aggiemowa: there are other factros like *2 in disorder and ratio of cultures , etc, but this is the base Aggiemowa: so the 18 troops make it a small number Aggiemowa: actually in this case it is o i think Zayxus: it should be negative Aggiemowa: right and so we are good Aggiemowa: i saw that number in some thread(yes i do occasionlly lurk in the strat forum) Zayxus: 2+3-18? Aggiemowa: yap Aggiemowa: negativeas aren't allow so it goes to 0 Aggiemowa: the bottom numner varies from 500 to 5000 depending on the capital distance, in the middle it is 2000 Zayxus: now there are 5 MI ready to attack Alamo. Aggiemowa: with panmploma right there it is 500 Aggiemowa: yes, but the 5/5 elite is 4/5 Zayxus: to keep Alamo aginst flipp: 2+3 Riders, Zayxus: against MI also Aggiemowa: yap enemey troops don't effect the equation just your own and tiles in enemy teritory Aggiemowa: with the mi at 4/4 they willwin 1or 2 out of the 5 atatcks but with catapults they could be shut out Zayxus: by all this it might be possible to get Pamplona. Zayxus: and keep Alamo Zayxus: but if GS attacks the? Zayxus: then Zayxus: Alamo is abandoned? Aggiemowa: my suggestion is this, if the force in Alamo is under 10, it will be razed Aggiemowa: we destroy roads, by the time they even get close to crossing we've destroyed RP Zayxus: what if GS moves west further? vondrack: --good, save sent to GS Aggiemowa: that brings us to merida Aggiemowa: excellent Aggiemowa: we can always use the extra planning time Aggiemowa: I don't see how it can be held form a determined attack Zayxus: do not see it either - against 12 Knights Aggiemowa: but it is possible, if they ake and extra turn. How many defesnive units could you put there Zayxus: the stack at Alamo and from Essigbar Zayxus: at most Zayxus: plus walls Aggiemowa: well if we could make them atatck it, against fortified forces 3 have a 4.5 defense(with river) Aggiemowa: with wals they ahve 6 Aggiemowa: if they did atatck a defesnive force there, we could swopp down of them Aggiemowa: afterwards Aggiemowa: my instinct is that they are going toward alamo Zayxus: hope so Aggiemowa: well if they don't rp want have much to atatck with, since we can hit them every turn Zayxus: Merida defense: 4 * 6 plus other Zayxus: Ansars at Merida: defense : 8 * 4 Aggiemowa: if they send the knights toward alamo, you can handle the MI Zayxus: yes Aggiemowa: actually you could let the MI get right next to it and wipe them out Aggiemowa: oh just loking merida doesn't have awall, i though it did Aggiemowa: also note we have 2pike at alamo for the record Zayxus: ND would rush the walls Aggiemowa: ok Zayxus: ND cant take Merida, when GS is near. Aggiemowa: nope Aggiemowa: thats why I offerd it this turn, since this turn they aren't near Aggiemowa: but if they aren't when you open turn just don;'t accept and it is your next turn Zayxus: now, correct vondrack: --well, I am feeling somewhat sleepy today - so I will head to bed now... vondrack: good luck to you Aggiemowa: goodnight Zayxus: bye vondrack: 'night! Session Close: Thu Oct 02 22:17:42 2003

	03-10-2003 14:51									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: btw, isn't there a bug in PTW where the walls still count in cities over size 6? Zayxus: before using catapults? Aggiemowa: humm i didn't know about that Zayxus: me either MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: I think there was, i don't know if it has been corrected though Aggiemowa: if so it might as well be on a hill. MZ[Cooking_RP_Stew]: Trip might know, I'll ask him later

This bug was eliminated in 1.27f

	10-10-2003 22:04									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

A PM from Aggie:

quote: We are still working on a fix for the PTWDG game. The problem is that we have an rop with ND, but they don't have one with us. Instead they have 2 peace treaties listed. We could probably work around this problem and still win, however I want the war to end in reasonable amount of time. Since due to RP moves this turn Pamploma will fall in the next 3 turns(depends how RP reacts to the destruction of the stack on the forest), it is important that we have this bug worked out. We intend to gift Pamploma to Nd, but they can't get troops there if no rop(we will rush a road,workers are in position). Additionally if we don't have a ROP, ND is forced to defend Merida with 12ansars+spear/pike. With ROP, 6 more pikes get there and the ansars can counter attack(effectively destroying their southern offensive force). Just wanted you to know why we are holding the game up and see if you have any ideas about the problem. Trip is working on editing the file but needs gramphos's help to do so. We have tried different orders etc and all that makes no difference in not being able to offer ROP. On the game front, as mentioned above, RP moved a large force of Pikes/1mi/4Catapults onto the forest near Pamploma and strengthened their forces on the mountain north of Alamo. We intend to strike that stack(on the forest) and if enough riders are healthy we will either attack Pamploma(that would take GCA like luck) or will fortify on the forest(most likely) with the captured catapults. If not we will gather the forces in alamo and finish the job next turn or the following turn(when all wounded forces from this atatck will be healed). If rp gifts all their cities to rush troops back we will almost certainly wait till turn after next to attack Pamploma. On the ND front, we gifted merida to them. They moved 14 2 defense units to Merida. With 10 GS knights nearby the ROP is very important. I am not sure if GS will attack Merida when they see the units there, it is possible that they will try to move to save Pamploma, but such a move by them would be very danagerous to them and they are too good of players to take such a risk(especially since they will know our numbers are large due to the destruction of the stack and the units outside Pamploma). Obviously they also know that ND has a large ansar stack, so they will be able to calculate that 40+, 4attack units are in front of them. Sorry for the length, just wanted to be thorough. Also I will be gone on vacation next week, but will leave detailed instructions for whoever plays the turn to carry out. Best Wishes Aggie

	24-10-2003 00:36									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

The regular Thursday evening Alliance chat (sorry, completely unedited this time - I still have some other stuff to do today):

quote: Session Start: Thu Oct 23 20:02:49 2003 Session Ident: #gow_cofa * Now talking in #gow_cofa * redstar1 has joined #gow_cofa * Zayxus has joined #gow_cofa Zayxus: hi, now I found you vondrack: hi! vondrack: this room or another? redstar1: hey vondrack: redstar1 is from Lego, too Zayxus: only here vondrack: cool vondrack: I was not sure if I recalled the room name correctly Zayxus: check 'gow', it is empty vondrack: ok, let's wait for Aggie then Zayxus: Question: I would like to start this kind of chat one hour later next times, because I would like to do something before the chat on thursday, what do you think? vondrack: not a big deal for me, I can do it at 8 or at 9 - your choice Zayxus: 9 of europe would be nice for me. Then I would have to ask Aggie , too. vondrack: hmmm... Aggie seems to be online... vondrack: his bulb is on * vondrack sets mode: +oo redstar1 Zayxus Zayxus: I just wrote a PM to him to invite him vondrack: cool * Aggiemowa has joined #gow_cofa Aggiemowa: hi there, sorry i'm late Zayxus: welcome Zayxus: Aggie, Question: I would like to start this kind of chat one hour later next times, because I would like to do something before the chat on thursday, what do you think? vondrack: hi, Aggie! Aggiemowa: perfect with me * vondrack sets mode: +o Aggiemowa Aggiemowa: hi there vondrack vondrack: do we expect anyone else? may I lock the door? Aggiemowa: sure Zayxus: so it is for all here ? * Retrieving #gow_cofa info... Aggiemowa: i think so Zayxus: me too Aggiemowa: i'll email all just in case though * vondrack sets mode: +k alliedchitchat vondrack: k, not sure what's on the agenda today... so perhaps I'd start? Aggiemowa: sound reasonable vondrack: right Zayxus: please vondrack: Aggie - be so kind and send wines on your next turn vondrack: nothing major, but we get one or two extra shields in the celebrating cities vondrack: now for the question of the day: Aggiemowa: will do vondrack: guys, how are you doing in the war? vondrack: or, more precisely vondrack: what are your thoughts on our military presence (and its extent) on Bob? Aggiemowa: it seems to be sufficient right now. Iwould object to saw 15 units total but what you have now is sufficient Aggiemowa: i mean i wouldn't object vondrack: 'f course vondrack: Zayxus? same feelings? Zayxus: amount seems to be enough in the north vondrack: unless you feel the need for more troops right now, we would slow down a bit now vondrack: assembling some force on Legos Aggiemowa: fair enough vondrack: once we have some knights for our home defenses, we might send more overseas vondrack: it goes without saying vondrack: that if the situation demands it, reinforcements will be dispatched immediately vondrack: we now have a sufficient transport capacity Aggiemowa: i think it is pretty clear that GS has made a decision to limit the war to the south. Probably due to a fear of you intervening vondrack: and several of our high shield cities (though not all of them) keep pumping out troops vondrack: yeah vondrack: speaking of this Zayxus: up to now it seems so. vondrack: I should tell tell you that RPers approached us once again vondrack: for the last time, I would say Aggiemowa: probably vondrack: I was forced to not deny being allied to GoW vondrack: I did not confirm that, nor denied it vondrack: but I plain refused to help RPers vondrack: with the full support of the whole Lego team vondrack: (I was acting as the FAM on behalf of our team) vondrack: Arnelos pretty much got the message, I'd say vondrack: he now knows we have gunpowder vondrack: he now knows we are not giving it to them vondrack: he might have noticed that I actually gave him a hint vondrack: that gunpowder will not help them vondrack: but maybe not... not sure vondrack: one thing that may be worth mentioning vondrack: he was, all the time, speaking about Lego being allied to GoW vondrack: not a word about ND vondrack: perhaps he still has no idea about the extent of this alliance vondrack: and I also do not believe he knows a tiniest bit about our knights on Bob vondrack: that's pretty much all from my side Zayxus: don't know why RP did'nt see the troops of Ansars on GOW-territory? Aggiemowa: that is a mystery Aggiemowa: here is something top secret Aggiemowa: it came in a pm so I can't give details(furum rules), but gs has approached us about betraying ND Aggiemowa: they said give a price and they would try to pay vondrack: hmmm... that's interesting vondrack: they still don't get it, I guess vondrack: so... what is the price, Aggie? Aggiemowa: well unortho emailed them back a vague answer of we have to consider, but we are committed to driving rp off bob. Aggiemowa: like they said they don't understand the depth of the alliance redstar1: seems they don't want to be a vassal state redstar1: not much roleplay in that Aggiemowa: nope vondrack: yeah, it's obvious their own definition of "honour" prevents them from seeing clearly vondrack: no offense meant to them Zayxus: Aggie, what might GS have seen of ND being involved having attacked that stack of GS about 5 turns ago? Aggiemowa: i don't know, but i am under the impression that they thought it was mostly nd Aggiemowa: i am eager to see the save, to see if gs attack merida or tries to go north to save pamploma vondrack: they are holding it for quite some time again Aggiemowa: inded they are Aggiemowa: brb Aggiemowa: sorry i'm back vondrack: no prob Zayxus: got no mail of GS yet vondrack: btw - it (GS' PM) seems to indicate they may be losing hope in their military victory Aggiemowa: it seems so, I assume they can estimate our producion and know we still have 7 turns of GA * Darekill has joined #gow_cofa vondrack: hello, Darekill! Darekill: hi Aggiemowa: hit there and welcome back darekill * Aggiemowa sets mode: +o Darekill vondrack: on a different topic - do you, guys, research anything at all? Aggiemowa: not yet, but i was planning on starting in 340/350 depending on some things vondrack: having a particular tech in mind? vondrack: we are still not decided what our next tech should be Aggiemowa: probaly begin moving toward military tradition vondrack: chemistry, I take it? Aggiemowa: yap then metalugy and cannons vondrack: I guess that would be no problem with us vondrack: we could stay in the upper part of the tech tree Aggiemowa: that should work, what are nd'plans Zayxus: ND seems to be on 'printing press'. Darekill: we are on pp aren't we? vondrack: how many turns to completion? Zayxus: yes, slowly, but we did. vondrack: 40 turn research? Darekill: 27 i guess vondrack: you might wish to talk to Voxes vondrack: they are farther with their PP research vondrack: might want to trade Zayxus: many turns left, as I remenber, I had only few turns until now to watch it vondrack: they are doing it in 40 as well vondrack: but started earlier Darekill: wouldn't hurt us we have a single scientist Zayxus: true vondrack: up to you... just wanted to keep you up to date Darekill: thanks vondrack: so... anything else to talk about today? Aggiemowa: just an updtae of the forest battle neat pamploma vondrack: k Zayxus: ... Aggiemowa: we lost 5 riders and destroyed 8pike and 1mi. RP claims to have counterattacked and retook the catapults seized Aggiemowa: we had a stack of 8riders so if they did they had to have taken significant loses and on their"screenshot they showed a pike was the last victorious unit Aggiemowa: if they were using pike for offesne they are truly desperate vondrack: heh... I do not want to directly tell you what Arnelos told me regarding the battle, but I think I can quote him this far: "Aggie is right to taunt us." Darekill: g Darekill: sounds good! Darekill: I hope that Medina and Essigbar are still in our hands. Darekill: Medina did I say Medina? Aggiemowa: my personal theory is that an elite generated a gl and they had no choice Aggiemowa: merida Darekill: I meant Merida . vondrack: might be - he did not mention anything about any GL, though Aggiemowa: merida should still be safe there were more units than gs had to atatck with there Zayxus: But they have not enough attackers, there is no chance to get Merida this turn. vondrack: if it's not too much hassle for you, drop us a brief note when you get the save vondrack: to keep us updated Zayxus: yes Aggiemowa: i am eager to see it too, maybe gs's offer was becasue the lost at merida vondrack: thanks vondrack: btw - when did the PM come? vondrack: it may also be because of Lego more or less admitting being "with the other side" vondrack: I talked with Arnelos two days ago Aggiemowa: yesterday morning Darekill: would fit... vondrack: that could be it as well vondrack: plus - they got the save only yesterday noon Darekill: At least I doubt that GS attacked Merida. Aggiemowa: thats true. Darekill: After all the hussel about the ROP-Bug they can imagin we have enough Pikes in Merida now to defend it Aggiemowa: i was wondering about that. I wqas glad it was fixed vondrack: do they imagine that only or is it true? ) Darekill: It is not exactly true Darekill: We have four? Pikes there but eight BASF vondrack: aha... vondrack: BASF are not the best defenders, are they? Darekill: No they are to busy recording their songs vondrack: LoL Darekill: But the four Pikes will be enough to disencourage the GS i think. Darekill: after all Merida is up a hill. Aggiemowa: i suspect they won't attack, the consequences of a loss are too high Darekill: sorry Merida is not on a hill I remembered that wrong it is Essigbar that is on a hill not Merida. Zayxus: Essigbar is like a castle. vondrack: right... anything else? if not, I would get back to my RL business (still some stuff to do this evening) Aggiemowa: i am done Darekill: I'm a newbie I do know nothing anymore vondrack: ) vondrack: ok, then, see you in a week - at nine? Darekill: maybe vondrack: I mean - an hour later than usually? vondrack: Zayxus wanted to shift the chat an hour later... Darekill: I'm still not completely the master of my time. vondrack: hehe... I have never been the master of my time... Zayxus: I'm lookingforward the save. If it is not here this night, than tommorrow in 18 hours vondrack: my time seems to have his own life... Darekill: Since my house burned I have so many other things to do but Zayxus will be here I guess. vondrack: ugh - did not know that vondrack: sorry for that Darekill: Well it was the reason I was away Darekill: now I'm back and thing are getting done but it takes time. vondrack: I can imagine that... vondrack: wish you good luck with getting your things organized again Darekill: at least no one of my family was hurt it was only the building and the things in it partly... Aggiemowa: sorry to hear that darekill vondrack: what was the cause? Darekill: I can swear it was someone from RP or GS! Darekill: Just a joke vondrack: LoL Darekill: my daughter burned a candle in the room next to her'S unatendet it did set the fire Darekill: when she realised it it was almost to late. vondrack: ah Aggiemowa: luckily you and your are oka nd that's what matters Darekill: the only good thing is that I'm good insured and they pay. vondrack: glad to hear that Darekill: otherwise i gues i wouldn't be here.... Darekill: ok. enough of that. Zayxus: Please, I remember I would like to come one hour later next week. vondrack: ok - see you all in a week (one hour later than today) Darekill: bye Zayxus: that is fine. Zayxus: bye vondrack: bye * Darekill has left #gow_cofa Session Close: Thu Oct 23 21:32:21 2003

	24-10-2003 23:02									#50
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

A very brief email from Zayxus (ND):

quote: Hi, there is to report: nothing happened with Merida. The troops of GS disappeared, perhaps they are gone to the north. Only two Knights of GS are at Essigbar. Zayxus

	28-10-2003 21:46									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

A PM from Aggie:

quote: Thanks for the Iron. The forest battle actually ended up worst than I hoped. They were able to get all eight riders and only use their offensive units from pamploma+all units from the mountain. I was disapponted in the lack of retreats, but that happens. Total loses for the forest battles(after nd defeated remaining forces on mountain, and some attacks last turn) were 13 Riders for us and 13pike,5MI at least(loses from within Pamploma unknown) for RP. This turn(operating on the theory that I want them to attack out from Pamploma) us and ND put a total of 5 pikes+2ansars+2riders next to Pamploma. A screenshot shows that RP now has 2(4/4)pike 2(3/3)pike 1/4knight 1/5Knight 3/5 MI 2/4 Horse. 8Catapults We have 18 Riders+2ansar(at least) to attack Pamploma this turn and based on the above numbers victory seems likely(of course we have all had bad rng). I can't help but be thankful that RP moved these forces out of Pamploma, if they had stayed we would have had no way to take Pamploma in the short term. Patrick

	30-10-2003 20:43									#52
	Increase Your PM Length

Another quick PM from Aggie:

quote: Well unfortunately the pamploma attack will have to be postponed. Gs moved those 12 knights into range of Alamo(on a mountain). Also they moved 4 knights nextdoor to Pamploma. If we attacked we could win, but would almost certainly lose quite a few units that were weakened to a GS counterattack. Maybe even alamo could be counterattacked. As I mentioned earlier, this was the one move that could prevent the attack. Also RP gifted Toledo and New Madrid so more forces are now present. On the bright side it is clear that GS is reacting to us and not the other way around. The good news is that to rush these knights into position they have left 3pike/quite a few MI/4workers alone in the desert. I just saw this so haven't told my team yet, but I suspect we can attack these forces and still keep sufficient force in the Alamo to protect that city. Also its clear that RP posses no real offensive threat, so we can simply come back to them when we have dealt with this GS force. Or perhaps we can return to the original plan of take the coastal cities. See you in chat Patrick

	31-10-2003 22:58									#53
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

There was virtually nothing of interest in the chat yesterday, just ND & GoW planning military moves. There was a possibility of engaging a GS slowmover stack in the desert...

Today, mixed news from Aggie:

quote: I have been thinking of the recent comments by opd and Theseus. They imply that an attack on GOW is coming. Theseus said they were about to open a can of Whoop Ass on somebody and OPD said how many cities were we willing to lose to beat RP. My interpretation is that we are about to face an immediate attack probably coming from the SE(because the ne is covered). I am not sure of this but am increasing recon in some areas. Of course it could all be a bluff. If it should happen we will probably need a chat to coordinate action. I think it is important that Lego prepare how to officially react to such an invasion. What exactly is the triggering mechanism for the military intervention of your forces. I mean should I send an rop if spot GS forces this turn or does the military part of the alliance kick in only when a city is threatened. I hope that this can stay a secret alliance and this is just paranoia on my part, but the above comments make me think we need some more detailed planning. I do respect GS and they have some players that Ive worked with before(as SMC in the 1st demogame), and I know they are excellent players. To be honest an invasion of GOW is exactly what I would have done(though I would have started that right off the bat). It is possible that a general warning from Lego is all that it will take to avoid war. But it also possible that GS suspects an Allinace and has made a decision to invade regardless of reaction. It is also possible these words are just threats to get us to make peace. Also I am glad to report that we destroyed a GS stack of 3Pike/5MI/4workers with only 1 rider casualty(of course the 1 rider was ghengis). Best wishes, Patrick

So... the battle in the desert went very well. GoW decimated the GS stack losing just a single rider (they will most probably lose another one to the GS counterattack). But Aggie suspects something may be brewing...

Perhaps we should dispatch LEF4, just to be safe?

	01-11-2003 01:03									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hmm... could just be GS blustering, but perhaps we should at least get LEF4 onto a ship. Perhaps move it to a midway point to serve as both a scout ship and still be ready to drop off the forces in 1-turn. Nice news about the stack destruction, though.

	01-11-2003 01:28									#55
	Put an end to popups!

Yes, we probably should send LEF4.

	01-11-2003 02:37									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Send it

	07-11-2003 04:54									#57
	Remove this text

And before I go to bed, the chatlog:

quote: Session Start: Thu Nov 06 22:12:25 2003 Session Ident: #gow_cofa * Now talking in #gow_cofa vondrack: hi, folks Zayxus: of cause, I meant for catapults: MI are the danger; GS has 5 Pikemen in range, which could stand at the hill Aggiemowa: welcome vondrack: sorry for being so late vondrack: too many things to finish here Zayxus: hello, welcome vondrack: just working on our "stern warning" message for GS vondrack: it will be sent along with the save Aggiemowa: that alright Aggiemowa: good Zayxus: GS will be informed? vondrack: they will be informed about that we will declare war on them if they move towards any of your cities Zayxus: yes, the time has come for this vondrack: Aggie, anything we did not address in our chat on Tuesday? Zayxus: we just diskussed, what to do, if GS stays on the mountains Aggiemowa: nope vondrack: k vondrack: Zayxus - will you send RoP? vondrack: we will need it to move our units faster vondrack: we are moving mostly through your territory, not GoW's vondrack: brb Zayxus: ROP for Lego : sure vondrack: back vondrack: ok, thanks Zayxus: ROP for Lego : noticed Zayxus: would it be worth to attack 5 pikes of GS on a hill next turn? vondrack: mhm... not sure if you know this (I have just opened the save, finally): GS gifted The Voice and Harry's Hideout to RP Zayxus: my idea was: GS gifted units to RP by this. Aggiemowa: i saw 2 cities are those them or are those new vondrack: RP now has four cities on Bob and 2 on Stormia vondrack: does not really look like the usual catapult gifting trick Aggiemowa: ok thats the same, they must have given toledo and new madrid back to rp vondrack: if it was that, one city would be enough vondrack: yep Aggiemowa: also the gs forces are probably further south Aggiemowa: new madrid and toledo weere done to move units to pamploma i susepct though Zayxus: which GS forces ? vondrack: yes, I thought so (re: Madrid & Toledo) Aggiemowa: well i suspect their catapults though I have no idea for sure Aggiemowa: i doubt GS would give more units to rp, rp is hanging by a thread * Aggiemowa sets mode: +o vondrack Zayxus: gifting gities moves only one's own units right? Aggiemowa: yes Aggiemowa: so they got reinforcements to pamploma Zayxus: so why got RP cities near GS? Zayxus: (The Voice, ...) Aggiemowa: well part of the deal gs is offering us considt of moving rp to estonia vondrack: =part of the payment for stabbing ND in their back? Aggiemowa: yes vondrack: cool Aggiemowa: i think the troops near us is"encouragement" vondrack: ah vondrack: so we will try to encourage them to move their encouragement away Aggiemowa: exactly Aggiemowa: all in the name of peace vondrack: oh, certainly Aggiemowa: we told them our deal was for rp to leave and they said"how many cities would you be willing to lose to accomplish this Aggiemowa: then they landed Zayxus: GS seems to see it is in a strong position Aggiemowa: they do, i wonder how the letter will affect them Aggiemowa: of course its always possibvle there ships will go get 16 more units Zayxus: As GS I would set as group of 12 Knights.... Aggiemowa: they seems to like 12s Zayxus: I assume , Lego is prepared to defend the home, too? vondrack: OUR home? vondrack: or yours? vondrack: well, actually, the answer is YES either way Zayxus: we do not know, what GS plan in the next turns Aggiemowa: nope Zayxus: This evening I guested the numner of galleys at about 12 (again 12?) Aggiemowa: that means that with 9 in the north they have little ability to resupply their forces in the south Aggiemowa: what units were seen that the galleys offloaded last turn Zayxus: (guess) Aggiemowa: in the picture you sent a saw units on shore but not what they were Zayxus: there are 3 galleys vondrack: btw, we would be able to send saltpeter this turn, too - just hooked up our first source Aggiemowa: that would be perfect vondrack: would you like us to send it? Aggiemowa: we are roading 1 in ND but i think it might bew a turnb away Aggiemowa: yes Zayxus: sounds good vondrack: ok, I will check with the rest of the team - but I believe there should be no problem, as we have another source close to being connected Zayxus: Aggie, which one would you take next turn? Aggiemowa: lego's is best that way you can keep upgrading, i'm not sure the road will be completed this turn Zayxus: right Zayxus: does lego need a fortress or something else to protect the Knights? vondrack: we haven't thought of that yet vondrack: they will likely be used offensively rather than defensively vondrack: so I am not sure a fort is needed vondrack: if they are badly wounded, they just withdraw behind the lines Zayxus: right, for healing the Knight s after a retraet could move far west vondrack: yep, with RoPs, they can escape in no time Zayxus: hope there are enough to cope with 12 Knights vondrack: ATM, not Aggiemowa: we have enough 15riders+6pike(soon musk) vondrack: it will take few more turns to get LEF to "full" strength vondrack: great vondrack: though... the riders will be missed in the South, will they not? Zayxus: fine Zayxus: in the south for defense there are some more Ansar vondrack: I meant for the attack at Pamplona... Aggiemowa: thatsa the draw back. currently we have 15 riders in north and 25 in the south Zayxus: to attack Pamplona *and* defenf against GS I miss the number of unnits Aggiemowa: but the fewer ships in the south opens up an offesnive option in that area vondrack: looking at the map... Aggie, where should LEF gather? vondrack: LEF1 is already where we earlier thought it would be deployed eventually (SE-SE of Macao) vondrack: not sure if it still applies Aggiemowa: let me see i was just thinking about that vondrack: k Aggiemowa: the hill sw,s of yellowkinfe is a good point, or the old ruins tile just w Aggiemowa: if gs heads west you might want to gather at the hill s of skulgaria vondrack: the hill would be best Aggiemowa: ok Aggiemowa: i think gs will head n this turn vondrack: agreed vondrack: pikes already in Y'knife? Aggiemowa: yes vondrack: good Aggiemowa: and port isolation, i hope to get walls there vondrack: roading the forest SW of Y'knife would allow our units to (counter)strike along the city, if needed vondrack: oh, scrap it vondrack: there is one more forest Aggiemowa: sadly the road system in the east needs some work vondrack: true Zayxus: City of Resolute is the point of defense? Aggiemowa: nope i really want to keep then south of there Aggiemowa: generally between yellowknife and port isolation Zayxus: the hill at the road or an the road?? Zayxus: a road arounf Yellowk would be good Aggiemowa: yes it would be, right now we were concentrating on the east with the lower corruption. To be honest if not for panzer's job we'd have little good infrastructure Aggiemowa: it was pretty bad when i came along * MRex has joined #gow_cofa Zayxus: are there workers near? Could a worker be bought? MRex: hi Zayxus: hi? Zayxus: REX? vondrack: hello Aggiemowa: hi there, MRex: that is me Aggiemowa: this is mrex a memeber of our team * Aggiemowa sets mode: +o MRex Aggiemowa: by the ay your unit got promoted a few turns ago MRex: neat Zayxus: ah, Promotion, congratulations MRex: hehe, i must be a natural at killing conversations MRex: what were you guys discussing? Aggiemowa: actually we were talking about the defesne in the north Zayxus: true Aggiemowa: gs landed MRex: yep, i've seen Aggiemowa: also we were talkign about how we could attack in the south too Zayxus: streets are interrupted at Yellowknife for Lego Zayxus: true, attack of GS on the hill , with Riders/Ansars or with catapults later Aggiemowa: i have some workers i could use to road, but they were to be used to raise yellowknife to 7 Zayxus: difficult vondrack: that's probably more important Aggiemowa: yap vondrack: 50% defensive bonus is a big deal Aggiemowa: right it makes a musk 6+fort it is 6.75 Zayxus: how far is lego from the borders? Aggiemowa: i mean 7 vondrack: LEF1 is SE-SE of Macao vondrack: LEF2+LEF3 are NW of Dar-El-Killam vondrack: N-NW and W-NW vondrack: LEF4 is leaving Legos this turn vondrack: LEF5 one turn later vondrack: all knights, just LEF5 will probably contain 2 muskets Aggiemowa: 13knights+2musk is impressive Zayxus: that is rather far from the borders at 2 * 2 fields move each turn?? Aggiemowa: unfortunately vondrack: yeah vondrack: with RoPs, we should move more quickly, though vondrack: up to 6 tiles a turn MRex: that is good Aggiemowa: but it insures that this will be the last time gs can atatck Aggiemowa: from time of landing it is about 3 turns to the deployment area Zayxus: Yellowknife could have been attacked in 2 turns? Zayxus: sorry I missed the forest Aggiemowa: yes Aggiemowa: they could move n to hill then attack on turn 2 Aggiemowa: or they could move all north this turn and then move the knights ne,n. from there they are in range of both yellowknife and port isloation Zayxus: but forest costs 2 points of movement? Aggiemowa: right Aggiemowa: but from the hill there is no forest n so they could move n and attack yellowknife Zayxus: (My map is not showing such details) Zayxus: Is there enough food for 7 citizens in Yellowknife? Aggiemowa: thansk to the whea and irrigation there is Aggiemowa: also we could rush irrigate to the west near skulagaria Aggiemowa: also the game helps vondrack: Aggie - Tatung Guard goes NE-E-NE next turn? Aggiemowa: let me see Aggiemowa: i can't see on my screenshgot but yes i think so vondrack: ok, so... let me point out this: vondrack: if he goes this way, he will be in Y'knife in 3 turns, fortified vondrack: if he goes via Macao, he will be there in 3 turns, but not fortified Aggiemowa: yap i think that was the plan Aggiemowa: with his elite staus he'll stay unupgraded too vondrack: however, all out forces could be S of Skulgaria in 2 turns, if not blocked by T G Aggiemowa: a gl from him would be perfect there vondrack: otherwise, it will be 3 turns for us to get to Skulgaria 2 Aggiemowa: well you forcers moving quicker are more important than 1 pike vondrack: I was thinking about this: vondrack: if GS moves N now, and attacks Y'knife then vondrack: they will be licking their wounds vondrack: if we are at Skulgaria 2 in 2 turns Aggiemowa: yes vondrack: we would be able to engage them immediately vondrack: before they'd get their pike cover MRex: that sounds good Aggiemowa: that would be perfect vondrack: of course - on condition they take Y'knife... vondrack: if not, the better Aggiemowa: well yeloowknife will be defended enough, to be safe vondrack: then I think it's better to let your pike move faster Aggiemowa: but its good to know incase we get a supper bad rng Aggiemowa: ok that will work too, yellowknife with more pike means more riders to kill wekened units Aggiemowa: weakened vondrack: ok then, I will assume the road will be blocked by T G next turn vondrack: nice thing GS knows zilch about where saltpeter is... Aggiemowa: yes indeed MRex: MRex: how long until they get gunpowder? vondrack: eons vondrack: they still do not have invention Aggiemowa: a while yet. last i checked they didn't have invention MRex: very good vondrack: probably running on 40-turn research Aggiemowa: xpost vondrack: they still do not have it Aggiemowa: once we got leo's they slowed down i bet vondrack: quite likely Aggiemowa: the funny thing is in the south they have placed a group of pikes on a sp deposit vondrack: hehe MRex: haha Aggiemowa: yap Zayxus: I saw it Aggiemowa: i almost fee; sorry for them, ALMOST vondrack: LoL MRex: i don't MRex: of course i don't actually know anyone on that team either Aggiemowa: of course there is still achance they;ll go for thordoba. In that case the knights have to go on open ground for a turn and would never make their destination Aggiemowa: there some nice people on that team MRex: yeah, i think that would be suicide Aggiemowa: of course i uasually get along with all MRex: i get along with most too, however there is a faction of the isdg i can't wait to get utterly destroyed Aggiemowa: lol MRex: i hear you guys are doing splendedly so far, keep up the good work Aggiemowa: we'll try vondrack: well, with a splendid starting position, what would you expect... )) Zayxus: lego offers Salpeter this turn? Aggiemowa: we just needed bananas Aggiemowa: yes vondrack: to GoW, yes Zayxus: you are at turn this moment? vondrack: yes vondrack: just having the save opened Zayxus: that is fine then vondrack: but I suspect we will not play until tomorrow morning vondrack: we still debate the note to GS a bit vondrack: and now this saltpeter thingy vondrack: finally some thrill for us... Aggiemowa: exciting isn;t it, no more 5 min turn Zayxus: not at all Zayxus: not at all 5 minutes only Zayxus: is there a chance for the idea of 8 cataputs with 10 Muskets or would we better attack with Riders and Ansars against Pkemen? Aggiemowa: i'd go with the riders MRex: riders rock Aggiemowa: but that has some merit for defesne if we rush build a road to the hill Zayxus: it is faster with Ansars and Riders to realize to attack.. Aggiemowa: yes, as i said from that hill we can take barcelona MRex: brb Zayxus: GOW needs on e turn to heal the Riders in Alamo, right? Aggiemowa: yes Zayxus: then there is not an attack in 330 AD = next turn? Aggiemowa: right Aggiemowa: i need to go, but thanks for coming Zayxus: thank you too, need to sleep. * Aggiemowa has quit IRC (Quit: ) vondrack: ok, see you in a week vondrack: good night Session Close: Fri Nov 07 00:02:33 2003

	08-11-2003 17:01									#58
	Tired of ads?

A short email form Zayxus:

quote: Hi , GS is with 8 Knights at a field north of Alamo in the mountains, and so FortLoewenmut could be attacked in 2 turns over the mountains. ND prepares to defend FortLoewenmut against a possible attack from the mountains after next turn. Greetings Zayxus

	09-11-2003 23:46									#59
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Email from Hot_Enamel (GoW):

quote: Hey, Just wanted to let you know that whatever Lego said to GS, has certainly rattled them & RP. GS have made suggestions of peace - Coupled with a threat of 20 GS knights poised to strike The Alamo & 12 GS knights ready to attack Yellowknife on the next turn. And RP have sent word that they are wanting peace, because Lego has interfered and GS may exit the war. - While threatening us with a perpetual war & war weariness if we don't accept peace, and we must still allow them a serious amount of land. I think its in the hands of the RNG. GoW is bracing for impact. If the attack by GS is successful, they could demand anything they want If they fail miserably, they will exit, and RP may be left on their own. Regs

	10-11-2003 01:14									#60
	Inflate your Upload Space

wow, what power we wield.....