10-11-2003 07:52									#61
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Very interesting....we will have to see how this plays out.

	11-11-2003 17:44									#62
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And perhaps, there are more questions we should ask...

This just from Hot_Enamel:

quote: GoodDay to you Radek, I have some more thoughts/concerns I felt I should share with you... Quite a few turns back, I was confused with some of the troop movements by GS. They were building roads directly at us, and sent a settler & SOD. I thought they would claim the spice luxeries SW of Barcelona. But they sent it directly west...straight on top of the saltpeter. This was our first major battle with GS, as we could not allow them to accidently build a city on that saltpeter. I commented in our forum, that I thought it strange that they beelined for the saltpeter when they really should not know where it is. Today, GS let it slip (intentional or not) that they know they have been screwed on the resources allocation., and hinted that they know where they want to settle if we agree to allowing them on Bob. They have also demanded that we give them all of our techs. We laughed at that one and simply said it was never going to happen. They currently have a road right on top of the saltpeter, and I suspect a worker or a settler nearby, if they ever get the gunpowder tech. So... my concern is that someone from one of the teams "in the know", have told that they do not have saltpeter...and worse still, they have provided GS with a map, on where exactly on bob, there is a source. Do you have any thoughts or suspicions? I admit, it is quite possible one of the "braggers" from GoW may not help themselves and have told GS of their lack of saltpeter, but I doubt anyone would supply them with a map or directions. Anyway ... keeping you up to date... Regs Warwick

This is getting VERY serious, guys. Anyone has anything to comment on this? It was me (at least me, maybe even others) eventually telling Arnelos/RP that "some teams were screwed on resources" - even though much later than the battle mentioned by H_E happened.

But there was no way GS or RP could have known where the saltpeter was. Either thery were cheating or there was a traitor in GoW, ND, or our team.

	11-11-2003 21:06									#63
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yes, even if they determined that they were screwed on Stormia, there is no way they could have known an exact location of saltpeter without someone telling them. It's either just amazing coincidence, someone leaking classified info (which I feel is incredibly unlikely), or they have "obtained" a map some other way.

	11-11-2003 21:21									#64
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I went through some of the older posts and found out the battle H_E mentioned (the first big battle between our allies and GS) happened before we discovered gunpowder - means before anyone legally knew where saltpeter was. Which means the fact GS moved their units there is not really a reason to suspect a leak of confidential information (as there was nothing that could have been leaked, so to say, "legally").

It might have been a coincidence and GS might have a plan not related to saltpeter at that time. It, however, does not explain GS' hint today at that they know about where saltpeter is on Bob - though if I understand it correctly, it was not said directly, but rather hinted at.

	11-11-2003 21:56									#65
	Inflate your Upload Space

Looking back, the only thing RP should have been able to infer from the chat you had with them was that they were screwed on saltpeter. There was no mention made of GS. That would lead me to believe that someone on GoW may have been trash-talking and let something slip

	11-11-2003 22:01									#66
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Yes, that's true - I did not mention anything about GS. Though it would have been easy to misinterpret what I said and believe (correctly, btw) that it was even GS lacking saltpeter. Not sure.

But the real deal here is that saltpeter resource W of Barcelona. If they really know about it, as seems to be the case - where did the info come from? Trash-talking is a great opportunity to let a piece of general info slip through, but you do not give away the exact location of a key strategic resource...

I am quite puzzled by all this...

	11-11-2003 22:30									#67
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Yes, indeed. I would hope that no one would be so thick-headed as to give away such a critical piece of info as part of a taunt. GoW and ND are going to have to shakedown their own team members to find out if anyone let something slip, and if everything is ok on their end, well... that just leaves a mystery

	12-11-2003 02:26									#68
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A PM from Aggie:

quote: As it happened we had a "secret " chat with Theseus and Cort Haus. They are under the impression that Lego will hlep in a war against ND. The deal they offered us was along these lines. 1.They make RP leave Bob. 2. We three then gang up on ND. After that war we get the north half of Bob and you all three split the south. Obviously this will not happen. I could not in good conscience betray an ally(particularyly one that has been so helpful and loyal) this way. Additionally I have submitted a proposal to my team for RP to remain on Bob. Basically this would give them the area from Bilboa to Barcelona(maybe a little more north or south of there). This would give them 1 or 2 lux but no resources and they could exist in some state. I am not sure that GS will agree to this, but am only negotiating with RP on this issue. If they agree(something Togas said was possible, but not sure), this would leave GS with no presence on BOB and I know they want a presence. The way I see it, GS is the danger since RP is effectively out of the running so peace with Rp now makes sense. Also it would make GS say the truth "they are doing this for territory not to save RP". Here's why they want a presence, they believe that "saltpeter is scare". Somehow they found out about, or at least suspect, their lack of SP(It is possible that they are bluffing on this though and want us to give away where SP is located). They also said they believed they could not win if they didn't have some of Bob. Since they didn't say directly that they need territory on Bob for SP purposes, it is possible that they have done tile counts and figure they will be out produced and built if they have Stormia only. On the worker for breaking Iron front, I left one on your path, but not in a slowing down position. If you want to pillage a tile that is ok too and might even be better. Considering the distance from our capital to skulgaria there is a good chance that the extra commerce from the road will be taken from corruption. Best wishes Patrick Ps. here is the map of proposed RP Reservation

	12-11-2003 02:30									#69
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Aside from silently ignoring the fact that we should perhaps explain how come GS is under impression we'd help in a war against ND, there is something worth some debate.

GoW (and ND, I assume) apparently consider the possibility of not finishing RP off completely, but letting them live in a "reservation". Do we like this or not? Is that good for us or not?

	12-11-2003 02:59									#70
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quote: As it happened we had a "secret " chat with Theseus and Cort Haus. They are under the impression that Lego will hlep in a war against ND.

Gee, I wonder where did they take this idea from?

	12-11-2003 03:18									#71
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack GoW (and ND, I assume) apparently consider the possibility of not finishing RP off completely, but letting them live in a "reservation". Do we like this or not? Is that good for us or not?

I believe that not finishing off RP completely is both good and bad for us.
Bad because they will mess again in the foreign relations arena with all of their stupid accusations and plots and whatnot.
Good, because consequently GoW and ND will have less land and one more neighbour to worry about. The best thing about it is that actually GS will gain nothing from this war. Which is why they won't be happy with this solution.

Finally I think that we don't really have a say in this regard. It is GoW and ND fighting this war, they know better how far they can strech with this war, how much is worth for them to have that corner of Bob, too.

The solution is clearly bad for GS, GoW and ND, so it must be good for us

	12-11-2003 03:22									#72
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Taking this plan as it appears.....

I assume the grey areas are cities GS want?

On the whole I think we could probably live with this. We could perhaps stretch 'no GS on bob' to 'very limited ubht controlled' GS on bob, especially if RP were to do a 'Vox'.

This would ensure RP aren't a contender, while reducing GOW/ND ins size.

While the war has been good to us, and will continue to be if it continues on its present course... its not going to do us a lot of good if we get dragged into an expensive conflict.

On the other hand, is this a veiled attempt by GS to divert their quest for land from Bob to Legos?

Towards the end of hostilities on Bob, we have really got to start looking at our defences...

	12-11-2003 03:29									#73
	Increase Your PM Length

The trick about GS is not letting them build a FP on Bob. They need a second productive core, and the ex-Vox territories are probably not of their liking. Letting them build one or two cities on Bob doesn't do any harm to us.

As for our home defences: top priority!

	12-11-2003 03:35									#74
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Well, it's not really up to us whether RP lives or dies, but if ND and GoW are willing to keep them around, it does hold benefits for us, as have been listed above. Of course, it does also leave open the possiblity that when the time is ripe, RP may just hand all its cities over to GS to use as the invasion front, but maybe I'm just being paranoid

Vondrack, do you want to contact GoW and explain that we ARE NOT allying with GS against ND, or should I do it?

	12-11-2003 03:58									#75
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quote: Originally posted by redstar1 I assume the grey areas are cities GS want?

I do not think so. I believe it's what Aggie mentioned here:

quote: Basically this would give them the area from Bilboa to Barcelona(maybe a little more north or south of there)

I believe Aggie stated quite clearly GS would have no presence at all on Bob:

quote: I am not sure that GS will agree to this, but am only negotiating with RP on this issue. If they agree(something Togas said was possible, but not sure), this would leave GS with no presence on BOB and I know they want a presence.

I agree that some land for RP means less land for GoW/ND, which is just fine. We would certainly not mind that. The cost would be having to cope with RP being around, which we have learned is troublesome. I also agree that we will have little say about what GoW & ND decide - the reason for asking was that we still could say one way or another, if we wanted - perhaps with little effect, but we could try. But I can see that we pretty much feel the way I felt after reading the PM: oh, well, we will be able to live with that.

Good points re: FP and second core for GS, homeland defenses, possibility of GS turning their eyes towards us (though that would be at least as far as Navigation).

quote: Originally posted by ZargonX Vondrack, do you want to contact GoW and explain that we ARE NOT allying with GS against ND, or should I do it?

I will handle that. I will send a short PM and further explain in Thursday chat.

Finally - do not forget that this is just something that is being discussed. Fortunately for us, we can handle it either way, unlike, say, GS. Unless something really unexpected happens, I would expect GS to attack soon, maybe even despite peace talks between GoW/ND and RP. If they are lucky, they will improve the negotiating position of theirs and RP. If they fail miserably, they just end up with what they'd end up if withdrawing without a fight - i.e. with nothing. And trying to turn the tide with some 30 odd knights conveniently deployed on Bob certainly is easier than to invade from scratch at a later date (especially if they suspect a lack of saltpeter).

	12-11-2003 04:48									#76
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I think this would be a good solution or us.

Disadvantages:
- RP is still around to cause problems, but they are so small ( ) that it'll just be background noise.
- I can invision RP gifting their cities to GS. At least there is no SP in the territory.

Advantage:
- Less Bob for ND and GoW
- Peace...we do not have to worry about getting deeper into this war.

In the end, the plan is good for us but I don't see GS going for it. If RP agrees to the plan, they'll just get run over by GS. GS is unlikely to win with just Estonia and they have no SP. They will not sit still for this. So my vote is to support the peace plan, but don't be surprised when it fails.

We will never know how GS knows about the the SP, so I'll not even worry about it. Let's officially blame it on delmar

	12-11-2003 10:58									#77
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quote: Originally posted by lmtoops Let's officially blame it on delmar

That's a good one

Maybe we should hint GoW to include a clause in their future peace agreement with RP, denying them to gift cities to GS. What do you think?

	12-11-2003 11:20									#78
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quote: Maybe we should hint GoW to include a clause in their future peace agreement with RP, denying them to gift cities to GS. What do you think?

Yes, good idea. That is definately in GoW's best interest, and they should know it.

	12-11-2003 14:46									#79
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Might also be worthwhile them asking for right of Naval passage. GOW/ND could station a sentry vessel or two to keep an eye on any comings or goings between Bob/Stormia.

	14-11-2003 02:51									#80
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Thursday Alliance chat @ #gow_cofa:

quote: Session Start: Thu Nov 13 21:32:58 2003 Session Ident: #gow_cofa * Now talking in #gow_cofa Darekill: Hi! vondrack: hi! vondrack: sorry for being late again Aggie: i agree, hopefully GS will attack alamo this turn. Otherwise no purpose in putting knights just north of Alamo Aggie: hi Aggie: thats alright vondrack: go on now, I will wait until you are done - I have some agenda then to talk about Aggie: we were talking about togas' response to peace map. It was very negative vondrack: I see vondrack: well, I am not surprised vondrack: RPers do not excel in realizing their chances Aggie: hehe Aggie: nope but it was weird a little because he PM"ed like he was in real trouble vondrack: in real trouble before you talked about the map or now rejecting the proposal? Aggie: when he first PM'ed me wondering if there was anyway they could stay on bob. He seemed to think GS was pulling out of the war vondrack: and now he changed the tone? Aggie: yap Darekill: Ah that was his fear. That guy is really a flag in the wind.... Aggie: when we first talked I suggested southern bob. But when I sent the map I decided that the se coast BOB was best. he didn't like that Zayxus: asking for our response to peace is a test of our force and mood too. vondrack: you think it was the location that caused the change of attitude? vondrack: let me report/clarify something, please vondrack: we have had a, uh, rather unfortunate incident in Lego vondrack: it's quite embarrasing, but I feel you need to know vondrack: two of our members with no authorization from the team vondrack: went ahead and organized a chat with GS (Theseus & Cort Haus) on their own vondrack: they discussed options and presented views which were by most part only their own vondrack: they feeded GS with a good deal of information and misinformation at the same time vondrack: let me sum what they did/said: vondrack: a) they said we had a defensive alliance with GoW vondrack: that is to be triggered by GS invasion of your homelands vondrack: as that has not happened yet, "Legoland has remained uninvolved so far" vondrack: uhm vondrack: b) they accidentally revealed that we were allied to ND, too vondrack: (something GS did not know or at least was not sure about) vondrack: c) they made the impression that Lego's main concern was how to avoid fight vondrack: as in how do to it to not have to honour our promises vondrack: d) they made it quite clear Lego would prefer if GoW made a backstab deal with GS (against ND) vondrack: e) and the worst... vondrack: they told them we would not support an invasion of Stormia vondrack: GRRRRRRRRR vondrack: one of them, the one who organized the thing vondrack: is no longer a member of Lego vondrack: the chatlog he posted caused a riot in our team vondrack: he received _NO_ support whatsoever for what he did vondrack: and left the team without saying a single word vondrack: NOW vondrack: I would like to make it crystal clear vondrack: that everything he said during that chat vondrack: and everything that GS now may hint at vondrack: IS NOT TRUE vondrack: it was only his personal effort vondrack: NOT representing the sentiment in our team vondrack: as was very apparent by what happened in our forum vondrack: after he posted the log vondrack: I would like to make it clear that: vondrack: a) Lego fully stands behind everything we promised vondrack: b) Lego prefers Bob equally divided between GoW and ND vondrack: c) Lego wishes no GS presence on Bob vondrack: d) Lego would really prefer not having to fight, but only on condition that GS does not invade your homeland vondrack: if they invade, we are ready to fulfil our part of the alliance duties, no matter what vondrack: e) we really do not support any invasion of Stormia, but we would prefer if GS did not know... :/ vondrack: finally, I am feeling extremely embarrased that anything like this happened vondrack: I knew that member was feeling unhappy about the current course of Lego vondrack: but had no idea he would go as far as this, pretending to represent Lego on this level vondrack: obviously, this has had implications vondrack: I suspect that GS (+RP) may now believe that Lego is not really all that hot to join war on your side Darekill: well the invasion has already begun. There are GS Knights near yellowknife. I do not belive in picnics. It was us who set up the first picnic and I know what it was about vondrack: I know Aggie: thank you, but no need to be embarrassed, we can't control all members of our team. To be honest people on my team have made really obnoxious statements that i was embarrassed about in the past vondrack: I was more or less quoting vondrack: so, that's about it vondrack: I know this has messed things up Darekill: Never mind Vondrack, you are not to blame vondrack: but I wanted you to know, so that you understand what this or that GS/RP says mean vondrack: personally, not vondrack: but as a representative of my team, I am Aggie: actually in a way it might help us. If GS attacks and fails (and they will fail) then RP will really find themselves in trouble and so will GS. vondrack: true Darekill: do you really think GS is foolish enough to attack? vondrack: I believe they will attack if they feel there is nothing to gain through negotiating vondrack: as all they could lose would be some knights on Bob Aggie: well there is no other reason to put troops next to alamo if they weren't. We hit them with cats every turn they're there. either they use them of lose them vondrack: yeah vondrack: any idea what's up with Voxes? Darekill: good then their knights are minced meat. Aggie: no idea,maybe beta is playing conquest Darekill: no we do not know. It may have to do with an offer we made but i doubt it. vondrack: ? Darekill: we rejected to buy printing press vondrack: I see Zayxus: ...and offered luxus cheap Darekill: and offered them to pay them for another tech they may research by givin pp to them and add some compensation and a luxury vondrack: ah, ok, I understand - they may need to discuss that a bit Darekill: maybe but it's not such an important thing. Darekill: and it is not pressing since we need lots of turns to get ready with pp... vondrack: alright vondrack: well, anyway... vondrack: back to that rogue chat vondrack: do you think we should do anything about it? vondrack: like restating our official position vondrack: whatever Aggie: lets see how GS does this turn vondrack: we are obviously going to inform them that the chat was done with no authorization vondrack: and that our official message still stands vondrack: but I am quite sure we are still not going to get back to where we were before that chat vondrack: in terms of 'sternness' of our warning Darekill: seeing your knights in the north is stern enough don't you think? vondrack: do they see them yet? Aggie: nope Aggie: they are on the wrong side of the hills vondrack: that is hopefully the only thing they still do not know vondrack: because that was, at least according to the log, not mentioned Darekill: GS could think that the rouge chat was a trap to pull them in a war with you... Zayxus: the only really new idea was: Lego would not attack Estonia, but that does not really matter in the next turns vondrack: yeah Zayxus: By the warning of Lego the other information by the chat are not the brand news. Aggie: next turn GS either will retreat or move to attack yellowknife or move n.ne to a hill where they can threaten both Yellowknife and Port Isolation Aggie: But Pi has a wall and YK will be 7 with musks vondrack: good Zayxus: how is PI defended by units? Aggie: 3pike+3Riders, but more can get there next turn Aggie: before GS is in postion Aggie: its exactly 3 tiles between the 2 cities so it makes defesne easy Darekill: g Zayxus: what could knights of Lego do? Zayxus: ...move? vondrack: we need 2 turns to gather all 9 South of Skulgaria vondrack: once there, they will be ready to take upon whatever will be needed Zayxus: Did get Lego the ROP? vondrack: we are still waiting for the save Darekill: sorry I have some buisiness with the Barbs over in Webringen vondrack: Aggie, how's your plans re: Chemistry research? Aggie: we'll start soon. in 2 turns i think. We had to have a few musk upgrades first. But i have some libaries coming up so that will help vondrack: k vondrack: we will be starting Banking this turn Aggie: right now we could research chem in 8, but don't know with GA ending in 4 turns. But the libaries should offset this vondrack: sounds cool vondrack: ETA for Banking will be ~8 turns Aggie: alright Aggie: one thing is for certain. GS is far behind on tech now vondrack: yep, still lacking Inv Aggie: one thing GS wanted for peace was "all our techs". I was amazed unortho didn't laugh in their face vondrack: hehe, yes vondrack: I heard about that Aggie: it was an unproductive meeting Aggie: took them 3hours to get to the point vondrack: ...which was ridiculous anyway Aggie: yap Aggie: luckily conquest hadn't arrived so i had the time vondrack: Darekill: Uh oh... Darekill: Have to go now sorry boys. Darekill: Bye bye. vondrack: k, see you next week Aggie: bye Dk * Darekill has left #gow_cofa Zayxus: bye vondrack: well, I guess I will go, too vondrack: stayed up very late yesterday Zayxus: yes I could go too Aggie: well then go rest vondrack: ok, guys, take care vondrack: and talk to you in a week vondrack: bye Aggie: talk to you later Aggie: bye Session Close: Thu Nov 13 22:35:19 2003

I hope the GS chat is not going to bite us back again at least with our allies.

Otherwise... just note, please, that GoW & ND actually WANT to see GS attacking them this turn. My guess is that Alamo is heavily garrisoned (as is Yellowknife).

	14-11-2003 03:11									#81
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They seem fairly confident that GS aren't going to cause any major problems. We would be quite happy if GS continually throw units at cities. However, putting myself in GS shoes, a defeat of this scale would perhaps be the last straw and I would start looking for an alternative....

If they catch sight of our units the psycological effect may be quite great. I imagine they have estimated GOW strength in the area, but 9 knights should throw the calculaions off somewhat. Especially if they realise we are in position to counter attack any offensive.

Looking good for us.... on a global scale at least...

The information about Togas' behaviour is quite interesting at least. It may seem that RP are no longer a concern for ANY of the other teams

	24-11-2003 02:22									#82
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Oops, sorry - forgot to post the log from Thursday. Nothing new, just Aggie talking about the proposed "contract" with GS:

quote: Session Start: Thu Nov 20 21:00:58 2003 Session Ident: #gow_cofa * Now talking in #gow_cofa vondrack: hi, everybody! MasterZen: hey vondrack: a rare guest here today Aggie: hi there vondrack: hi, Aggie vondrack: any luck with the save? MasterZen: yeah well its a national holiday, don't have anything better to do vondrack: ah ) Aggie: haven't heard from Trip yet vondrack: I have recalled something vondrack: not sure if it's worth mentioning vondrack: last turn vondrack: when I opened the save, GoW offered us "nothing" as "accepted" vondrack: the trading screen was blank and accepted by you Aggie: THats weird vondrack: I just ESCaped the screen, I think Aggie: hummm Aggie: i suspect there are large bugs crawling under the surface causing problems vondrack: yeah, seems so vondrack: the fact that PtWDG teams push the game to the limits (using all kind of 'tricks') does not help either, I guess Aggie: its a shame they don't beta test by having a demogame. That would really give the game a good checkup vondrack: true MasterZen: well, that beta test would last 2 years :P Aggie: sadly vondrack: hehe Aggie: or 5 vondrack: true, too MasterZen: do you know what the sad thing is? vondrack: rhetoric question, I take it... Aggie: what MasterZen: universal access to the internat has made software companies so ****ing sloppy they never care to bring out a working game since they know they can patch it eventually Aggie: that is true MasterZen: console games are usually never even remotely as buggy MasterZen: why? because there is no way to patch them. Companies have to get the game out as close to perfect as possible or else no one will buy them Aggie: they aren't and with memory card you can have long games. "romance of the three kingdoms " on the old nintendo still ranks as one of the best games IMHP MasterZen: I played Nobunaga's Ambition, same style Aggie: i liked that too MasterZen: Nintendo games were awsome. I stay play the ROMs Aggie: the emulators on the pc also work well with those games MasterZen: something like PTW would have never happened in a console game Aggie: nope vondrack: hmmm... I can't really participate in a discussion about consoles - never had any... MasterZen: you had no childhood vondrack :P Aggie: well i only have the nintnedo, i played the other through mu nephews,neices vondrack: I had... one with Sinclair ZX SPectrum Aggie: i has the atari 2600 MasterZen: I had the old Atari 2600, nintendo, and super nintendo MasterZen: then came Civilization I and I said **** consoles :P vondrack: Ataris were quite rare here vondrack: Sinclairs ruled this country vondrack: and various clones of that machine vondrack: anyway... do we have any agenda today? vondrack: anything interesting happened since last week? Aggie: unfortunately with the game stalled there not much to do vondrack: did GS attack? Aggie: nope we convinced them to do a 1 turn cease fire, so now we have yellowknife to pop 7 witrh musk vondrack: hehe vondrack: cool vondrack: and Alamo was not attacked either? Aggie: they say they are about to send us a contract for war with nd. Aggie: nope vondrack: hmmm... a contract... Aggie: well we won't agree, i actually feel a liitle guilty leading them on. vondrack: understood vondrack: I felt the same way after that rogue chat last weeks Aggie: iwas wondering about us three makinga joint declaration that we will not stop until GS is off BOB vondrack: last week vondrack: I am not sure whether such a declaration would help things vondrack: GS would feel even more taregtted vondrack: possibly more players quitting Aggie: ok vondrack: because of a "conspiracy against GS" Aggie: ok vondrack: btw - I kept the captured worker Aggie: thats fine vondrack: noticed he was ND Aggie: , think of him as payment vondrack: so he will work as fast with us as would with you vondrack: hehe vondrack: no vondrack: I will use him to whatever you need vondrack: and when the time comes and we need to break deals again Aggie: thats sounds good vondrack: you just take him back vondrack: any urgent tasks ATM? vondrack: I was thinking about "widening" the road in the west-:[/b]east direction vondrack: so that units do not block each other Aggie: that would help vondrack: k, we will start working on that Aggie: we did that when we got aligned with nd at the begining. It helps movement alot vondrack: yeah, I can imagine that vondrack: if not for the traffic jam, LEF would already be gathered S of Skulgaria Aggie: right Aggie: , well next turn(assuming a next turn) Aggie: maybe trip and gramphos can clear the bugs up vondrack: :crosses fingers: vondrack: alright... if we have nothing else today, I will go to bed - I feel terribly tired (tough business day today) Aggie: that fine, i have to so some meeting in RL today myself vondrack: give my best regards to Darekill and/or Zayxus, if they show up vondrack: ok, see you in a week Aggie: 60mi each way Aggie: see you vondrack: take care vondrack: bye, MZ! vondrack: bye, Aggie! Session Close: Thu Nov 20 21:22:57 2003

	26-11-2003 00:46									#83
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A PM from Aggie:

quote: Thanks for the Lux, now Imperial city can go full throttle. Here is a picture of the situation in the east so you can best plan your movement. If the ROP is working fine(by the way it didn't show uo in the diplomacy box) then I'd sugest you move e,ne,ne then e onto forest(but exposed to attack or ne to attack GS if they move northward. If the ROP isn't working I'd move s,e,e onto the hill s,sw of Yellowknife. From there you could come up from the south and trap GS. Of course even without the ROP you might want to take the north route, it totally up to you. As you see, GS is facing superior forces. Unortho is currently getting the wording to send GS, but it is safe to say we rejected their offer. If you have any questions or ideas just sent me a PM. Best wishes Patrick

	26-11-2003 00:50									#84
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Here is what I suggest:

This turn, we move all our knights S-E-SE (safe, RoP or no RoP). This way, GS will still not see us (unless they have some scouts along the coast - but even if they spot us, we will be out of their reach)... on the next turn, we move E-E (and perhaps E-SE, too), gaining control of the best landing point(s) for potential GS reinforcements. The turn after, we seize as many hill/mountain landing points along the coast as possible. This will leave the GS stack cut from reinforcements - plus, it should be quite a shock for them, because I do not think they'd expect us from that direction.

My gut feeling is that they will either stay sitting on that hill or attack Y'knife. Moving NE-N, they would either have to expose the whole stack in the open for a turn, or leave their pike cover behind - in both cases, GoW riders would cut them to pieces.

If they attack Y'knife, they will crush their skulls against the defenses. And if they stay and leave the coast S of them uncovered, they will lose it to our troops (and will have to attack them in order to regain the position - helping us with a happiness boost and weakening their attack forces, as our knights will be defense 4.8/6.3 on hill/mountains... leaving the surviving units pretty much harmless as far as an attack on GoW/ND cities would be concerned.

What do you think?

The only weak point is if they have the landing points covered... but I still believe that going South, pulling a trap is better then messing through the rough terrain in the North.

	26-11-2003 01:14									#85
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I beleive thats a good assessment of what we should do. They are not expecting us, they are also not expecting any forces to arrive from the South, therefore I beleive that is our best option.

	26-11-2003 01:25									#86
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I would also support the southern option. Leaves us with the most maneuverability in regards to whatever they may do.

	26-11-2003 02:52									#87
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Yes, the southern route is better. The N is pretty well covered by GoW anyway. Moving S leaves us more flexibility in dealing with whatever will happen in the following turns, while not exposing our troops to an immediate danger (also hiding them for one more turn).

The only problem is that moving S-E-SE leaves GS's troops out of our reach for the next turn, should it be necessarry to intervene.

I have a feeling that GS will stay there until more troops will land there, or launch a massive attack in the south and this is only a decoy army for the GoW riders. What they don't know is that GoW can count on our 9 knights, and won't withdraw so many riders from the S.

	26-11-2003 03:15									#88
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I would expect reinforcements in our area (or total withdrawal) - Theseus mentioned once they were not trying to take the eastern part of GoW lands with just 12 knights and few pikes.

That's why I believe we should rush to block any reinforcements from entering the battlefield.

	26-11-2003 03:33									#89
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I agree to the plan as stated by Vondrack.

If they don't see it coming, that would be great.

Leo

	26-11-2003 04:04									#90
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Alright, seems we agree on the plan internally. PMing Aggie:

quote: Hi, Aggie! I am looking at the picture of the battlefield you sent me and... the way I see it, you are safe with Y'knife - the defenses are formidable. Port Isolation is out of GS reach at least for a turn. I believe the most important thing now is to prevent GS from reinforcing. So, what about this: This turn, we move all our knights S-E-SE (safe, RoP or no RoP). This way, GS will still not see us (unless they have some scouts along the coast - but even if they spot us, we will be out of their reach)... on the next turn, we move E-E (and perhaps E-SE, too), gaining control of the best landing point(s) for potential GS reinforcements. The turn after, we seize as many hill/mountain landing points along the coast as possible. This will leave the GS stack cut from reinforcements - plus, it should be quite a shock for them, because I do not think they'd expect us from that direction. My gut feeling is that they will either stay sitting on that hill or attack Y'knife. Moving NE-N, they would either have to expose the whole stack in the open for a turn, or leave their pike cover behind - in both cases, your riders would cut them to pieces. If they attack Y'knife, they will crush their skulls against the defenses. And if they stay and leave the coast S of them uncovered, they will lose it to our troops (and will have to attack them in order to regain the position - helping us with a happiness boost and weakening their attack forces, as our knights will be defense 4.8/6.3 on hill/mountains... leaving the surviving units pretty much harmless as far as an attack on your cities would be concerned). What do you think?