07-08-2003 08:55									#1
	Would you be humble before God? Support Apolyton

I am a very open-minded atheist. I don't believe in any Gods or God, but I don't rule the possibility out. I often try to use my own understanding of logic and reason to contemplate what God might be like if he were a sentient being and the whole heaven/hell thing was true. Basically, I have a scenario in my head where after you are dead, you meet God. Upon learning that you are indeed talking to the almighty Creator, what would you do? Would you be humble towards God, know he could smite you or send you to eternal damnation? Describe a theoretical reaction you would have towards God if you were to meet him after death.

I would not be particularly humble or fearful in front of God. I would not bow and I would not worship God. And if God were insistent upon needing my worship, perhaps threatening me with eternal damnation, I would react with insolence and resistance. My attitude would not be combative, but rather, inquisitive. I would have so many questions for God. But above all else, I would treat God only with mutual respect. Upon meeting God, I would be respectful and courteous (as with meeting anyone), and I would expect God to treat me politely with a certain level of respect. A fair and good God (especially one who would put up with my cynical, skepticle BS) is one that would deserve my respect (which is earned, not given automatically in accordance with faith).

My concept of what is fair and good differs from the Biblical God. IMO, the Christian God, as described in the Bible and taught by all denominations, doesn't seem very fair or good. But then again, this conception is based upon the words and actions of his most "devout" followers.

So... Discuss... and please, for the sake of my thread, just assume God exists... and refrain from discussing such existence.

	07-08-2003 09:03									#2
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If I were convinced that I was meeting "god" during my life or when it ends... I would do WHATEVER HE WANTED ME TO DO...

	07-08-2003 09:04									#3
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I believe that God exists. We should all be humble trowards God since he is the one that gave us all life. I often think about that it is very similar to parents. YOur parents gave you life and they take care of you for about 18 years so as long as you are with them you have to listen to them and respect them for the rest of their lifes. Same with God. God is also very patient I think with all mankind, and we should be humbe before him, since he is all powerfull and created the Universe. But if you think about it God also could not have created the Universe and gave humans life, and that is an act of love. Also if God could have made us all like robots that followed His every command, but instead gave all mankind freewill.

	07-08-2003 09:04									#4
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Been doin' it for more than 6 years!

	07-08-2003 09:05									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Ming If I were convinced that I was meeting "god" during my life or when it ends... I would do WHATEVER HE WANTED ME TO DO...

Good advise for Sava, .

	07-08-2003 09:05									#6
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God took my Dog away when I was 6 and gave me an ugly mother and made me have 3 abortions. If God really did exist, why wouldn't he simply fix this kind of stuff for me?

	07-08-2003 09:07									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Ming If I were convinced that I was meeting "god" during my life or when it ends... I would do WHATEVER HE WANTED ME TO DO...

What if it were something you considered to be morally wrong... like detonating a nuclear weapon in a major US city? IMO, God is only to be praised if he is truly fair and good. And I can't imagine a fair and good God ordering me to murder innocents. For such a God should not be followed.

	07-08-2003 09:08									#8
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quote: God took my Dog away when I was 6 and gave me an ugly mother and made me have 3 abortions. If God really did exist, why wouldn't he simply fix this kind of stuff for me?

I can accept the notion that God allows evil to exist, because such evils are the creation of man. God gave us free will, so I will not hold the existence of OUR own evils against him. The notion that we have free will and that God cannot interfere with it is perfectly reasonable.

	07-08-2003 09:09									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Sava What if it were something you considered to be morally wrong... like detonating a nuclear weapon in a major US city? IMO, God is only to be praised if he is truly fair and good. And I can't imagine a fair and good God ordering me to murder innocents. For such a God should not be followed.

What, GOd would never ask you to blow up a city with a nuke. God is fair and good.

	07-08-2003 09:09									#10
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It'd be a case of me saying 'No hard feelings eh?' and Him saying (if he IS all mercifull) 'No problem, have fun in Heaven'

And if I am right and he doesn't exist, then were all worm food and the conversation won't take place, either way i can lose .

Sort of like a reverse 'Pascals Wager'

	07-08-2003 09:09									#11
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If I met God I would ask him to demonstrate the trick of pissing up a rope.

	07-08-2003 09:09									#12
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Your morals pale in comparison to GOD'S, I can only assume.

Or, you could just fight the power. I'm sure you'll win!

	07-08-2003 09:11									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I can accept the notion that God allows evil to exist, because such evils are the creation of man. God gave us free will, so I will not hold the existence of OUR own evils against him. The notion that we have free will and that God cannot interfere with it is perfectly reasonable.

Yes we all have freewill, and the evils that mankind should not be blamed on God. He expects us to do what is right, but does not forces us to do right. If we choise to do what ever we want and some evil results we have no one to blame but ourselves.

	07-08-2003 09:13									#14
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Whats with all the God threads round here recently anyhow?

	07-08-2003 09:13									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www What, GOd would never ask you to blow up a city with a nuke. God is fair and good.

I was responding to Ming's assertion that he would obey whatever God said.

Zylka: My morals are my own... not God's... by giving us free will and the ability to learn, and distinguish between right and wrong, God has allowed us to discover our own morality. Our morals might clash, but it is wrong to say my morals "pale in comparison" to God's. But your sarcastic "fight the power" crap about my attitude is tiresome. If you are incapable of holding a serious conversation, go spam elsewhere.

	07-08-2003 09:14									#16
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I'm not so sure God would really want mortals trembling at His feet and such.

Then again, that's why I'm talking to you while being constantly impaled on Satan's tail and ripped to shreds by the Demons of Nizhr.

	07-08-2003 09:14									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka God took my Dog away when I was 6

Oh. C'mon. Big deal. Stuff like that happens.

quote: and gave me an ugly mother

Beauty is not only skin deep.

quote: and made me have 3 abortions. If God really did exist, why wouldn't he simply fix this kind of stuff for me?

Uh, those abortions were your choice (or your guardians). And by the way, no offense, but you would have never had any abortions had you not been sexually reckless. Your sorrow is the price for your sins.

	07-08-2003 09:18									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I was responding to Ming's assertion that he would obey whatever God said.

I understand. I know what you are saying that you would not do something anyone told you to do no matter how powerfull they were if it meant you had to kill someone who had every right to live. I would rather die than do such a thing my self.

	07-08-2003 09:19									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka ... and made me have 3 abortions...

condoms would've helped you out there...

I like George Carlin's thoughts on god:

'Take a look at all the **** that's going on- war, disease, famine, and the 'ice capades'. These are not things that belong on the resume of a supreme being. This is the kind of stuff you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitide!'

You have to remember, god is:

'an invisible man, living in the sky, who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of 10 things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these 10 things he will send you to a place of fire and anguish and torture where you will suffer and burn and scream and cry for ever and ever until the end of time.... But he loves you...'

So I think I would treat him like anyone else I meet, wouldn't ask him for anything because of the whole "devine plan" ****.
'What's the point of being God if every run down shmuck with a $2 prayer book can come along and **** up your plan?'

	07-08-2003 09:23									#20
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When I meet God I'm going to deny everything and hope for the best.

	07-08-2003 09:24									#21
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quote: Originally posted by iamlod You have to remember, god is: 'an invisible man, living in the sky, who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of 10 things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these 10 things he will send you to a place of fire and anguish and torture where you will suffer and burn and scream and cry for ever and ever until the end of time.... But he loves you...' So I think I would treat him like anyone else I meet, wouldn't ask him for anything because of the whole "devine plan" ****. 'What's the point of being God if every run down shmuck with a $2 prayer book can come along and **** up your plan?'

I disagree. God does not send anyone to hell, at least that is my view of the matter. If you read the Bible one bit our first parents decided that they wanted to be on their own and not listen to God, so God has allowed mankind to go on his own for awile, to see if they could do a better job then Himself. If God truely hated us he could turely make all of mankind suffer ten times over what suffering their is today.

	07-08-2003 09:27									#22
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Good point, Jackwww.

By the way, the cause of evil is Satan's fault as well as man's fault as told in Genesis; not God's.

	07-08-2003 09:33									#23
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I don't get it that Mr. Nice Guy. If God is Supreme, why does God not destroy Satan? You know... cancel his existence? Either God has no power over Satan, or he allows him to exist? Christians never answer that one. Anyone?

	07-08-2003 09:35									#24
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If I met god, I would ask him why he banged his shoe at the UN

	07-08-2003 09:36									#25
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Nikita? LOL he was hilarious

	07-08-2003 09:39									#26
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Test.

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	07-08-2003 09:41									#27
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Sava, my serious point was, if who you are dealing with is undoubtedly "God" - his morals are by definition right, and you damn well do what you have to to please him. Otherwise, what exactly is your point? What will come of your noble stand, regardless of what size support you gain?

"God" would be God, and God would be right. I honestly don't see any room for discussion, otherwise

	07-08-2003 09:43									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy Uh, those abortions were your choice (or your guardians). And by the way, no offense, but you would have never had any abortions had you not been sexually reckless. Your sorrow is the price for your sins.

My body, MY CHOICE

Ain't a NO ONE gonna bring me down and chain my womanhood with fetuses!

	07-08-2003 09:45									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www I disagree. God does not send anyone to hell, at least that is my view of the matter. If you read the Bible one bit our first parents decided that they wanted to be on their own and not listen to God, so God has allowed mankind to go on his own for awile, to see if they could do a better job then Himself. If God truely hated us he could turely make all of mankind suffer ten times over what suffering their is today.

I just posted Carlin's interpritation based on the Catholic Faith.

Also, I think that god does send people to hell. If he didn't who would? That's the whole point of the judgement. God decides if you're worthy of going to heaven.
(I could discuss this more, but I haven't read the bible. I've been meaning to read the bible, the q'ran and the tora because theology is interesting to me, but I haven't got around to it.)

	07-08-2003 10:00									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I don't get it that Mr. Nice Guy. If God is Supreme, why does God not destroy Satan? You know... cancel his existence? Either God has no power over Satan, or he allows him to exist? Christians never answer that one. Anyone?

Same reason why he did not destory the first human pair when they rebelled. Yes God has allowed Satan to exist all this time to prove that Satan is just a big fat liar.