08-08-2003 18:22									#1
	Who uses nukes? Remove this text

I just wanted to know who relies on nuclear weapons as part of their strategy.
I never actually used them before and saw no need, up to Emperor.
Since these are supposed to be the great equalise, I decided to test how they work on all dif. levels.
[I'm using AU mod, just so you know]
This was my project for the last 3 or so months. [my games last LONG] All games as Persia.

Well here it goes:

Chieftan: Saw no need for them. Could have won easily long before these were even available. Purposely DIDN'T win untill I got these. Found them to be counter productive. For the cost I could probably build enough units to take over the city, no problem.

Warlord: Same deal as above. Seems to be that wasting the city makes no sense when you can take over it so easily. None of the AIs managed to get them, although I think that some nukes would have helped them fight back. Mneh. Thats warlord for you.

Prince: Still no use. A nuke did help to crack open an AI capital, but that was just becuase I didn't want to wait for 2-3 turns of bombard. Effective yes. Neccessary? No. Not worth using still.

Monarch: Not much going for me this game. Bad placement, nowhere to REX, tough enemies. Still, I got to tech. parity and got out some nukes. Didn't work so well on the small cities, I just ended up making them useless. The biger cities went pollution crazy, starved, rioted and when I captured them had nothing of value, again not very useful. They did wok woners on the giant AI stacks. I launched one right at a border city with a bunch of AI units sitting there. The city was useless. The AI's main army was pretty much dead. Quite effective.
Conclusion: A nuke helps break an uneasy balance where noone can get ahead. Useful if your starting position is bad.

Emeperor: [even]Well this time it was a little different. I started well, kept my vassal states under control and was ahead slightly by the end game. Didn't need nukes at all but I did use them to a distant enemy. After three went off he quickly came to the table begging for mercy.
Meh. If you're that far ahead using nukes to inspire fear isn't as good as using armies to inspire fear.
Only good for attacking a distant, powerful enemy that you couldn't get to other wise.

Diety: Again, started in a great spot. GOt my self a continent. Another computer got himself a continent. Another one got a bunch of islands. The rest were at our mercy. I started two wars with both the other "leaders". Throwing nukes at the islland chain worked poorly. At most I disrupted a couple cities after the attack. Since the island empire was spread out it would have taken over 20 nukes and a large invasion force to do anything.
The other continntal enemy was now ahead of me becuase of this wasted war. Fortunately 4 nukes wiped out 80% of his main forces. A single strike took out around 2 cities [drove them inot starvation becuase of pollution]. Worked very well against a larger, superior amount of units and cities.

My conclusion: Nukes are useful only at the higher stages. Near useless when you're winning, work well if you're the under dog. Shame that the AI doesn't use them well [or at all]

	08-08-2003 18:37									#2
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I, as of yet, have not felt the need to use them.

	08-08-2003 22:08									#3
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Only used them a few times on games that were conquest only huge maps. This allows the game to run long enough to have nukes. I only used them, if the AI used them first.
So it can be a laugh, but is not a factor in the out come.

Last edited by vmxa1 on 09-08-2003 at 03:44

	08-08-2003 22:57									#4
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I've only used them back when the game first came out, to see the effects. Haven't touched 'em since.

I don't think they are needed, or particularly useful given the shield outlay. Besides, the game is almost always won or lost before the modern era.

-Arrian

	08-08-2003 23:36									#5
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I only used them after I already won just to see what would happen.

	09-08-2003 01:05									#6
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I have yet to be in a situation where I needed them, except the Egyptian Mess, a looooong time ago, and I doubt I could have survived long enought to effectively nuke my way to victory.

[Hey, that has a nice ring to it: Nuke My Way To Victory!! :lol]

But the few times I've played with'em, man, they are fun!

	09-08-2003 01:21									#7
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Played with them for the fun. But never relied on them for any strategy. Cost to much and to limited usually.

	09-08-2003 01:25									#8
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Needed them? Probably not, but they can really speed up a sure thing game.

	09-08-2003 03:05									#9
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I've always been disappointed in that the AI will never use nukes against me. I have never needed to use nukes, but they do have their uses, such as breaking the will of a heavily fortified city. 95% of the time that I use nukes, it is out of boredom.

	09-08-2003 06:19									#10
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once for fun!

	09-08-2003 07:03									#11
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I've never once used them. Like Arrian I usually have the game won before they really come on line...either that or I got my butt kicked before I got there and started a new game.

I suppose I'll have to try one out sooner or later just to see the effect.

Last edited by Rhothaerill on 09-08-2003 at 08:48

	09-08-2003 08:05									#12
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There was an AU a while back I almost had to resort to nukes to attempt to wipe out the French. Ended up getting a space victory the turn before I planned on launching my nukes. But then I went back just for fun and launched. It was fun to watch but isn't a good way to win IMHO.

	09-08-2003 10:59									#13
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I usually build a few. My games have Manhattan Project as a minor wonder.

I occasionally use them tactically (to help taking a city) if the political alignments are compatible.

	09-08-2003 13:50									#14
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doesn't the loading for each nuke get pretty annoying?

	09-08-2003 22:57									#15
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I rarely use nukes and usually just for fun after the outcome has been determined. I have only been in one situation where I felt they were necessary and it was simply lack of attention that got me there. I was involved in a particullarly nasty war with the Zulu and had to commit a large amount of resouces to break their attack and counter strike. During this time I let relationships with two other major powers slide. Suddenly I found myself at war with the three main powers and my forces deeply committed on foriegn soil. Tactical nuke against the invading stacks from Babylon and France brunted the force of their invasions while causing me to have 4 cities laid waste in return. This did allow me time to reposition and stabilize the front. The fact that the Zulu had been broken allowed me to negotiate a peace after a few turns and then the other front proceeded normally with no further use of nukes.

	09-08-2003 23:45									#16
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Ok, I have read some of these responses and while they do seem rather well thought out I must disagree. I am playing on a "Real World Map" I am the USA and I am one of about four Superpowers, I am between third and second on Power. Well there was a World war and do you want to know what happened. They weakest Superpower and the strongest allied against me and another. We wasted the strong one and bombed him conventionally into submission. Only problem was this, by the time he was beaten down sufficently neither of us could take the cities without many losses. So my allie begins nuking the **** out of them, literally. The comp used its full arsenal of around 23 ICBM's. And I am only at the second lvl of difficulty. I also did not mention that the other 10 smaller weaker civs that had nukes used theirs as well.

	10-08-2003 01:30									#17
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Nukes are Useful in limited situations:

Nukes should be saved for particularly tough targets such as a capital building a Spaceship in a close race or a powerful SOD where it would take too many units to wipe out conventionally. The most use I have for nukes is to hit the capital with just one nuke and then wait one turn and nuke it again, wiping out much of its work force (especially useful in a war of attrition in which you want to deny resources, cut supply lines, and administer a slow but crippling blow to the AI. )

	11-08-2003 04:09									#18
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Does the AI do diplomacy different when you own nukes?

	11-08-2003 09:55									#19
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I think if you use a nuke every civ not already at war with the victim will declare war on you.

I rarely use them. They aren't effective enough IMO. In real life if you're in a world war nukes would be necessary, but in civ3 most people don't bother building them.

I don't like them because I hate seeing one of my core cities get annihilated. It is too painful. Especially when you're America and your former hometown (Seattle) gets nuked. Nukes aren't cost effective either. They are good for winning the SS race and for a few other small purposes.

	11-08-2003 21:49									#20
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Is there any way to tweak the game, so that AI civilizations are more likely to use nukes? It would be fun to get some MAD in Civ.

	11-08-2003 22:25									#21
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hi ,

yes , they are great to stop fleets

or to mold the land a bit , ...... mountains become hills and thus provide one food after clean up , .......

have a nice day

	11-08-2003 23:50									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Verto I've always been disappointed in that the AI will never use nukes against me. I have never needed to use nukes, but they do have their uses, such as breaking the will of a heavily fortified city. 95% of the time that I use nukes, it is out of boredom.

I always have them used against me, and I'm even painstakingly careful not to raze or break treaties. But it doesn't usually happen until very near the end of the game.

	11-08-2003 23:52									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Mad Bomber Nukes are Useful in limited situations: Nukes should be saved for particularly tough targets such as a capital building a Spaceship in a close race or a powerful SOD where it would take too many units to wipe out conventionally. The most use I have for nukes is to hit the capital with just one nuke and then wait one turn and nuke it again, wiping out much of its work force (especially useful in a war of attrition in which you want to deny resources, cut supply lines, and administer a slow but crippling blow to the AI. )

Hrm, to this day I've still never tried the Space Race victory option. I hated it Civ1, but maybe I give it a shot. Then maybe I'd have a use for all the nukes I build.

	12-08-2003 01:38									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Verto I've always been disappointed in that the AI will never use nukes against me. I have never needed to use nukes, but they do have their uses, such as breaking the will of a heavily fortified city. 95% of the time that I use nukes, it is out of boredom.

The AI has nuked me preemptively. India and I were carving up a civ using conventional weapons (I can not remember which civ we were fighting - Iroquois maybe) and it dropped a nuke on one of my newly captured cities.

	12-08-2003 03:13									#25
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quote: Originally posted by panag or to mold the land a bit , ...... mountains become hills and thus provide one food after clean up , .......

Really ? Hmm...time to colonize this small mountain-only island after all

	12-08-2003 03:25									#26
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I usually build up a significant nuclear arsenal as soon as I have the ability to. Will the AI act differently toward you, depending on your own amount of nuclear weapons, and theirs? For example, if I only have 4 nukes, and Civilization X has 20, will they be more arrogant, or more willing to use unconventional weapons against me?

	12-08-2003 03:30									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Menlas Really ? Hmm...time to colonize this small mountain-only island after all

hi ,

yep , give it a try , start on a huge map with 25 icbms or so and a couple tacticals to test it

have a nice day

	12-08-2003 05:33									#28
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What if you fire off a nuke that hits an area that nobody has borders going over? For example if there's a small island made completely of mountains (no cities could be on it) without cultural borders going over it and you nuke it, will it hurt your rep or anything?

Also, what happens when you nuke your own city? I've never tried it, and I can't try it right now because I don't have any modern or industrial saves right now (just cleaned out the folder). Also, I have never tried this before but am I correct in assuming that when you choose to nuke a city owned by another civ you're at peace with it makes you declare war on them?

	12-08-2003 05:37									#29
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quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod Also, what happens when you nuke your own city?

You cannot nuke your own city. Or can you?

	13-08-2003 02:56									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Verto You cannot nuke your own city. Or can you?

hi ,

yes you can


have a nice day