10-08-2003 06:56									#1
	Web design: frames or no frames? Put an end to popups!

I've been working on some web pages for the past months and I have a huge question to ask, more of opinion rather.

I am undecided as to keep my pages with frames. The reason is that many of the pages can already be reached by Google and other web search engines. However, since so far my webs have been frame-based, whenever I click on a google-link, only the frame shows up, not the entire page.

THen I stoppped to think why so many pages lack frames and I belive that it is for this reason: to make them more google-friendly. The downside of course is that you will receive increased bandwidth since certain common parts like menu or content frames will now have to be loaded with each page.

My question therefore is: is there a way to get google to link to the pages and not the frames? I have a feeling the answer is no. if this is the case then I guess I'll have to re-edit my pages without frames.

Many thanks beforehand for the suggestions. The page I'm working on is here: http://ww2.masterzen.net .

-MZ

	10-08-2003 07:04									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

NO FRAMES!

Frames are utterly useless for at least 99% of the time. They screw up bookmarking and navigation something fierce.

You will notice most of the big sites such as Poly don't use frames. You shouldn't either.

But frames aren't as evil as Flash.

	10-08-2003 07:31									#3
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Forget fansites, I'm talking about the big professional sites like newspaper pages or software sites... I've been checking and most of them don't use frames either.

No flash for me... mostly because I have no clue about Flash editing

	10-08-2003 07:40									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

dp

Last edited by Kalius on 10-08-2003 at 08:55

	10-08-2003 07:49									#5
	Suffering from ads?

I hate frames. I always get stuck in them.

Use tables

	10-08-2003 07:53									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Flash = Hitler

Frames = Stalin

	10-08-2003 08:50									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Don't use tables, either. Get with the times, use CSS.

	10-08-2003 08:51									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Frames suck!

	10-08-2003 08:51									#9
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

d00d, frames make your website along with lots of animated .gifs, marquee text, and images for backgrounds. oh, and embedded .midis that you can't turn off.

	10-08-2003 08:54									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by ixnay d00d, frames make your website along with lots of animated .gifs, marquee text, and images for backgrounds. oh, and embedded .midis that you can't turn off.

Yeah, and different background graphics and fonts for every section please

	10-08-2003 09:38									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by BeBro Yeah, and different background graphics and fonts for every section please

OH OH OH YOU HAVE TO GET THOSE ONES THAT SCROLL WITH THE FACKING PAGE!!1! THEY ARE TEH 1337!

seriously though, i used frames when i was 12. i don't really like them for my use nowadays, but if you wanted to make an "enclosed" design (like http://www.r0x0rz.org/krux/ ) i don't see many ways to get around them.

	10-08-2003 10:18									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Frames used to be neat, but now that modems are fast and HTML design is usually complex, frames have been dumped, in favour of more user friendly navigation menus on the side or top.

They usually don't add up more than 5-10K to a page, unless you put large blinking animated gifs


and yes, people who keep using 1000s of nested cumbersome tables, or spacer transparent pictures, should all be taken out and shot.

learn css and use it. or get a program to do it for you like top-style or something.

	10-08-2003 11:31									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Well, you all have convinced me: SCREW THE FRAMES!!!

(now have to re-edit the whole damn thing)

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

	10-08-2003 11:33									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov learn css and use it. or get a program to do it for you like top-style or something.

I've learned CSS during the past couple of months and have slowly re-designed my site with them. They are incredibly powerful, giving you things that the regular HTML language doesn't and saves you a lot of bandwidth by having the formatting on one page alone.

I suggest people who have web sites to learn CSS, it's easy, even a someone like me who hardly knows HTML has learned!

	10-08-2003 11:35									#15
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by ixnay oh, and embedded .midis that you can't turn off.

I hate those!!!!

	10-08-2003 11:50									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Only use frames if you don't have access to server-side includes.

The only use of frames is to maintains a single location for all your navigation links and server-side includes are a far better way of doing that.

	10-08-2003 12:31									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

FRAMES =

What kind of Netscape 4.2 crap are you up to anyway?!?!

	10-08-2003 20:29									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I don't use ordinary frames, but I do use inline frames (the iframe tag) so whenever I need to change the navigation I don't hafta open up every blasted page and make the change.

	10-08-2003 20:33									#19
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I was going to offer my opinion in this thread, but I've found myself hypnotised by Siro's avatar.

	10-08-2003 20:42									#20
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet I was going to offer my opinion in this thread, but I've found myself hypnotised by Siro's avatar.

ha, i agree its very distracting.

	10-08-2003 21:48									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

LOL

	10-08-2003 21:51									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Frames suck. Avoid!

	10-08-2003 22:10									#23
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet I was going to offer my opinion in this thread, but I've found myself hypnotised by Siro's avatar.

yes, that "bounce" is one of those things you just can't stop staring at...

	10-08-2003 22:45									#24
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I can't even remember what frames like? Can you find me a website that has an example of them????

	10-08-2003 23:16									#25
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

http://ermsays.net/gallery

I was using it as a nav bar, but only 'cos I'm lazy. None of the other sites I've done use them.

Actually, Poly's Civ2 section is framed. Damn annoying as well.

	11-08-2003 02:00									#26
	Tired of ads?

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/4002/

	11-08-2003 02:12									#27
	Support Apolyton

oh yeah st. leo, that there is expert web design!

	11-08-2003 02:21									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Holy God that's ugly.

	11-08-2003 03:00									#29
	Inflate your Upload Space

Bloody hell... Gave me a jump.

	11-08-2003 03:19									#30
	Support Apolyton

These sites use inline frames. (iframes)

http://www.firstcultural.com

http://www.taiwanimation.net