07-11-2003 23:42									#31
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Death to LL!!

Death to Tabemono!!

Send solar flares to both their capitals!

	11-11-2003 21:10									#32
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In the 1650 BC turn MAST sent us 75 gold. I assume it is for IW which they do not have. I will put IW on the table and accept.

	15-12-2003 02:08									#33
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1225 BC MAST sent us CoL. I sent back 25 gold. This concludes our deal for Writing.

	17-12-2003 01:37									#34
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sent to OPD

quote: Greetings neighbor! We have the following techs and would be happy to trade them to you. Philosophy, Mapmaking, Horseback Riding, Polytheism. We are currently researching Construction. We understand that you want to research Republic. We would be happy to gift you Philosophy now and give you Construction for Republic once you finish it. Please let us know what you prefer and if you'd like to negotiate to aquire any other techs. --Togas

	17-12-2003 09:07									#35
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from OPD:

quote: Yes greetings neighbour, we hope all is well. Please excuse the proximity of our recent city building but we are looking for some home other than the shitty desert. Freudian slips aside LL and SS is the subject. We already have Polythesism (LL) and will get HBR from LL once we have researched Phil to trade for it. This was finalized only yesterday with an insistance that they have it signed for too. The last thing MAST would want would be to get caught up in any disagreements between LL and SS, you are the ones with the 3 defence units so neither of you have much to fear. Your recent tech aquisitions make it look almost certain that you and LL have a contact that we do not have. Which does trouble us. With regards to the matter in hand we cannot break the deal we have with LL. However LL have said they are currently doing MM, I don't know about the team but I'd be willing to agree to get it from you and not them. Also I would like to suggest something regarding Phil, we are only a few turns into it and so could perhaps give you the money we would spend researching it instead of doing it ourselves and then proceed to trade it to LL to complete our deal. At a rough guess, (I may be wrong) I'd say we have about 100g left to go on it. Concerning Republic, we would very much like to research it, and if you and Tabe also agree to get it from us and no one else we will research it. Our commerce is higher than our position would suggest but still not enough to research a costly tech and only sell it to 1 team. LL, I don't know they may do it themselves or get it from someone else, they didn't commit to get it from us yesterday. cheers OPD

	17-12-2003 09:19									#36
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to OPD

quote: OPD, We would never want to interfere with your trade dealings with Latin Lover. We just hope that you will aquire Mapmaking from us, as we researched it and traded it to LL for Polytheism. We think it would be very rude of them to try to trade that tech to you. We will sell you Philosophy for 75g. That's the same price we sold you IW, and as both techs are equal value, we feel it would also be a fair price. As for Republic, we have taken you at your word that you wanted to research that, and thereby have no plans to research it ourself. Additionally, if you don't want to buy Philosophy, we would be happy to give you Construction + Philosophy for Republic. We would, of course, gift you Philosophy early. Latin Lovers indicated they would also research Republic, so you'll want to talk to them. However, we will promise you that we will get it from you if we do the Constr + Philo for Republic deal. As for your new city, we had planned to place one there but it is not a big issue for us. We have plenty of land to build on. We will be building near you shortly and look forward to sharing a border with our good friends from the MAST team. --Togas

	17-12-2003 21:15									#37
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Togas, we have not traded MM to anyone. We traded Writing for Poly and LL is now researching MM themselves. I guess they do not want to trade for it.

Last edited by HarryH on 12-01-2004 at 21:04

	18-12-2003 00:11									#38
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quote: OPD, Wanted to make a correction on my previous email. We recently gave Latin Lover Writing. They do not yet have Mapmaking. I believe they are researching it now as they have not expressed any interest in trading with us for it. --Togas

	18-12-2003 00:57									#39
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Back a couple of messages OPD said:

quote: Your recent tech aquisitions make it look almost certain that you and LL have a contact that we do not have. Which does trouble us.

We need to put them at ease that we do not have any other contacts. We got Phil from a hut some turns ago and recently finished researching Map Making.

I think the other civs are on another continent that is isoloated from us. If you look at the world map there is a large empty space in the east. I don't know if the Great Lighthouse will be enough to get contact or if we will need Navigation or Magnetism. I think MAST is an unlikely civ to make that contact. Tab and us have may have a chance of finding a route in the west. I think LL is in a better position to find a route in the east.

	18-12-2003 04:21									#40
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quote: Ah that explains alot We'd very much like to purchase phil from you rather than commit to a tech deal for it and I've sent you 75g this turn. BTW just so that you know LL have a settler/warrior stack this side of Perla. Moving along the north side of the coast. I'm going to try and speak to MZ about Republic, if they're going to do it we probably won't. As always best wishes to the people of SS opd

	12-01-2004 04:38									#41
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Received from OPD:

quote: Hello Sunshine, hope all is well with Sunshine, A while ago we agreed to trade you something for mapmaking when you got it, as you now have it we would like to set up a trade. We are currently researching Republic, ATM it will take 20 turns from now. We already have agreements in place to trade it to trade it to Tabe and LL which will get us the other techs we need to get into the MA. Also now that we are in the times of map making. We would like to discuss with you map trading and find out what your views on it are. As you may already be aware we have alot of your territory discovered, I think perhaps if we were to have an embassy we would have all but one of your cities visible but I may be wrong. Anyway this being the case we thought it best to consult with you before trading our map away. LL have said they'll probably be ok with a map trade but we haven't spoken to Tabe about it seriously. So what is the SS opinion on map trading? Also Togas your PM box is full opd

	12-01-2004 21:07									#42
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Before we do a map exchange I would like to setup exchanges with the other civs, otherwise they may get our info from MAST and have no reason to trade maps with us. So MAST gets everything and we only get the MAST map.

Also note his reference to aquiring all techs needed to leave the Ancient Age. We have no deal for them for Construction so they must be planning on aquiring it from someone else. I wonder who that is and if they are researching it or planning on getting it from us to give to MAST?

We have no deal to aquire Republic.

	18-01-2004 06:27									#43
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quote: Arnelos, Please feel free to meet with me to discuss any of this: Team Sunshine would like to offer up our technology for trade with your team. We have Mapmaking, Currency, and will have Construction shortly (within the next 3-4 turns) Team LL is also working on Construction but they will finish many turns after us. We would like to receive Republic from you, of course. We have sent our WM to your team, and we hope that you will trade us your WM back. We have also sent our WM to Tabemono and LL and are participating in a continental sharing of map knowledge. We would also like to establish a friendship pact with your nation. It would involve both of us promising to remain and peace and perhaps sharing some resources and luxuries. We'd agree on a border pact to. We'd draw a line from the lake, along our shared border to the east of Friendship City, going all the way down to the southern coast. Please let me know what you think. --Togas

	19-01-2004 23:51									#44
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from OPD of MAST

quote: Good day to you all at SS, I guess we shall be seeing all of each others terrain quite soon Also if possible we would like to set up some sort of routine with you whereby we gift each our maps each turn so as to see any barb camps around in the run up to the uprisings. Also how much would you like for mapmaking? We’d like a deal over that tech soon. opd

	25-01-2004 01:54									#45
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quote: OPD, I don't think I ever got back to you! I'm sorry about that. You asked a while ago about buying MM from us, and we're happy to sell it. How does 100g sound? We have just completed Construction and are working on Monotheism. We also have Engineering as well. We look forward to aquiring Republic from you once you finish it. Please let us know. Also: Our two nations do not have the large militaries of our northern neighbors. Perhaps we should consider and alliance and an agreement to split up the land between us? Please let us know what you think. Hope to hear from you soon! --Togas

	30-01-2004 22:46									#46
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Received e-mail from Bongo with the save:

quote: Here's a save for you We have discussed your aliance proposal and we like it As the other teams are so much stronger than us, we think that it is wise to not be very vocal about our good relations. We should start discussions soon about sharing the land and other trades. We intended to ask you to take care of a barb village 10 tiles SW of 'whosdamanow' for us(we don't like the idea of massive uprisings you see) but as that village is taken care of, we just want to ask if you did it. Next to 'friendship city' you will see jag warrior 'lada', he was sent there to offer help with the barbs in the north(one village with warrior and horseman). After I saved the game I saw the horseman leaving, so his services won't be needed. Let us know if he can help you in any other way. If not, we just send him home again. We also have a worker roading between our border cities to get our empires connected. Not that we have anything to trade at the moment, but we may have some time in the future. Bongo, Minister of fine art, Mohammed al-Sahaf Team PS To honour our new ally we named our newest worker 'Happy Worker' (see pic)

Here is the pic:


I replied via e-mail:

quote: Togas will contact your team to workout details of the alliance. Yes, we did take out that barb camp in the forest south of the mountains. The JW near Friendship City should not be needed. We just took out the barb camp and have another unit from our cities that is heading off the horsemen in case he moves south. We have workers connecting our road network to Friendship city. In a few turns one will move to start a road on your side of the city to connect our two civs. We have nothing to trade yet either, we will be ready when the time comes. I will post the pic of the Happy Worker for the team to see. -- HarryH

	03-02-2004 21:24									#47
	Increase Your PM Length

Received from Bongo with the 690 BC save:

quote: Two questions for you. There is a new barb-camp SE of our land, we have sent a jag towards it but it will take 3-4 turns to get there. Do you have some units in the area that could help us out? Also, one of our jags is heading home after exploring, it is currrently about 10 tiles SW of disneyland. Unfortunately the fastest route goes through your territory. Could we get your permission to cross your land? Bongo, Minister of Fine Art.

My response:

quote: Our closest unit is 8 turns away from the barb camp. We have units heading east to intercept any barbs in that area but you will probably reach the camp before we do. I will post your request to transit our territory in our forum for discussion. Our relations contact will get back to you. -- HarryH

	03-02-2004 22:01									#48
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My suggestion is for their JW to work his way across the plains to the hill S of Disneyland. Then he can move E, E on the plains, then NE, E to the hill by the lake. After that it is flat all the way home. That route will be quick and out of the way of our workers.

	03-02-2004 23:41									#49
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I'm in agreement on your suggested moves for their Jag and have no trouble with them moving through our territory.

I need to get into chat with Arnelos (he was too busy last night) to work up a simple alliance or defense pact.

--Togas

	04-02-2004 19:52									#50
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I sent this in an e-mail to Bongo:

quote: Sunshine gives MAST permission for your jag to cross our territory near Disneyland on its way home. Head across the flats and towards the hill south of Disneyland. Once we see your jag we can look at our worker positions and give you a quick route through the area. -- HarryH

	06-02-2004 20:34									#51
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Had a chat with Arnelos last night. Nothing finalized because it was broken up in the middle, but here's what was learned/discussed:

MAST reports that LL has been building up a large military which they feared would be used against them, but they now suspect will be used against Tabemono as the troops movements have been more western.

MAST still fears LL more than Tabemono, as they view the membership of Tab to be more comprised of builders.

Right now it seems as though the alliance would be defensive in nature, as that is what I communicated to Arnelos.

We'll continue talking this weekend to try to get some details in place.

--Togas

	08-02-2004 02:54									#52
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This sounds good. A couple of things to consider, if we have a defensive alliance with both Tab and MAST, that would sure make it easier on all of us if LL comes a knockin, but it also makes us exposed as we could get dragged into a war we are not prepared to fight. I think LL's movements to the west are an effort to claim that grassland territory north of the jungle.

	10-02-2004 19:47									#53
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Received:

quote: To Team Sunshine The reason we are holding the save is that we have a barbarian uprising on our hands. 1 warrior and 16 horsemen currently sits in the camp 4 tiles S/SW of 'whosdamannow'. Our changes of stoppping them are slim at best. We risk loosing both our treasury and our FP-build in that city. We have to ask you a favour, could you keep our treasury safe until the threat is gone? Only 200+ gold but it's a lot of money for a poor nation like ourself. Any military assistance would of course be greatly appreciated, but to be honest, I don't view that as a realistic hope. Please don't reveal this info to the other teams yet. Bongo, Minister of Fine Art, Mohammed al-Sahaf Team.

My reply:

quote: To team MAST, We feel honored that you would ask us to help you in this way during your time of need. We will keep your treasury safe and return it when asked. We have a warrior on the other side of the mountains from that barb camp and a horsemen in the forests that will join the warrior this turn. Hopefully they will be able to draw a few of the barbs away from you. -- HarryH

	10-02-2004 19:53									#54
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Regarding the alliance, we need to identify what type of conditions will trigger the alliance (e.g., any attack on a unit anywhere, a declaration of war, enemy units within their border, an attack within their border, loss of a city, etc.). It will make a difference as to what stage of a war we could get dragged into. We should probably work out the same kind of language with Tab.

	12-02-2004 09:20									#55
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sent to Arnelos

quote: I'd like for us to work out an alliance. This is what we're looking for: Defensive alliance, triggered by either an attack or an impending attack on a city owned by either of our nations Military cooperation, in the event that either of us become the victim of an attack by a 3rd party Continual WM exchanges Pledges of friendship and cooperation Favorable trades and tech cooperation A solumn pledge of peace between us ... anything else you'd like to include? Let me know. Either of us can write it up, but I'd like something simple. We probably should also set a termination date for the alliance, but my team has no interest in ending this any time soon, so the longer the better. --Togas

	13-02-2004 22:50									#56
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Received with the 610 BC turn:

quote: The Save. Just lost a jag attacking a barb...aren't human players supposed to get a bonus vs barbs at this level?? Oh well.... Jag uday is now next to disneyland, we await your instructions on where to go. Bongo of MaST

My reply:

quote: I believe we are getting a bonus. Remember though that the barbs still get any defensive benefits of the terrain and sometimes the random number generator just goes against you. Our worker next to Disneyland finished his task this turn. Your JW can either wait one turn and then head straight east or move onto the hill and then go east from there. -- HarryH

	18-02-2004 12:26									#57
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Received from OPD with the 590 BC save:

quote: Greetings our battles with the barbs seem to be going ok, at this point we’d like to withdraw 15 gold from our current account so as to have enough gold to finish Republic at a deficit. It should be about 5 maybe 4 turns until rep is finished. Also do you or will you soon have any resources to trade now that we have a trade link? opd

My reply:

quote: That is good to hear. We just took out two barb horsemen in the mountains SW of Whos Da Man Now. I sent you the 15 gold you requested with our world map. I have not seen any new barb camps appear since the great uprising. We do not currently have any resources to trade. We are working to hook up a couple of incense to our north but it is hard work building a road over those mountains and hills. -- HarryH

	22-02-2004 23:38									#58
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In some exchanges with OPD after the 550 BC turn he said they will have Republic in 3 turns. I can see in this thread some discussion to trade it but no apparent agreement on what to trade. I suggest working out a deal for Engineering.

	23-02-2004 01:22									#59
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The difference in prices between Republic and Engineering is pretty vast, but MAST really doesn't have much to offer us techwise.

I'll see if we can get Rep + 100g for Engineering. We already have their gold. We can just keep an extra 100 of it.

--Togas

	23-02-2004 02:07									#60
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Had a chat with Arnelos ... long story very short:

He feels that MAST cannot give any gold because they have to upgrade 14 jags to swords soon.

He wants a straight up trade of Republic for Engineering and they'll owe us tech points.

I suggested that they give us 2 workers instead of 100g and he will ask him team about it.

I also reminded him that we need to formalize the alliance and he agreed, but we don't have anything yet. I may just draft up something for him to sign.

--Togas