12-08-2003 11:50									#1
	2-3 questions about new game Enter the AD-FREE zone

Here it goes... I'm trying to get a new (and first unaltered) deity game and I'm really not able to get by, even if I've read all post on this site, practically.

What is for you a good site from the start for your capitol ? and what is the difference between a good and a great site ?

so, Is it absolutly capital that we FIND a settler from goddy hut ? but if not, what is your work order for your first 2-3 city (including capitol) ?

and, is there a trick to do to get more from goddy hut ? I mean is there a way to always get something good (an dnot those barbarians tribe) from them ?

Is the Great Library the wonder that give the absolute edge from a winning game or a losing one ?

Now about my game. I'm trying to play the french, because of there industrious and commercial ways. Is it a good choice ? I now that on the forum you've all said what your best civ is.

the top number city have been able to create from a good start is 5 (have iron, horse and 1 luxuries=wine) And not able to keep up in military with other civ and in city. An other thing is that even if a try the day trader routine for tech, the AI is demanding ridiculus sum of gold from me to get it. And it seems that I'm the only on to have more than 50 gold when I want to sell my new tech to other civ, so there could be time where I'm selling Iron Working for 18 to 30 gold to 2-3 civ and I've bought it for 170 gold and 7 per/turn, is it normal ?

Well, that's it. It's my first post and I know that my writing is not perfect, but my understanding is quite ok

thx to all for your 2 cents

	12-08-2003 12:43									#2
	Re: 2-3 questions about new game Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Originally posted by forwax
"What is for you a good site from the start for your capitol ? and what is the difference between a good and a great site ?"

IMO a good site is one that has a cow and some bonus grassland and a lux near.
A great site has two luxs close by and a second cow/wheat.

"so, Is it absolutly capital that we a settler from goddy hut ? "

Well until PTW came out I never saw a settler from a goody hut, so it is not required. If you want to get one, it is not hard. If the AI has more cities, you have no setter built or queued, you have a fair chance.

"Is the Great Library the wonder that give the absolute edge from a winning game or a losing one ?"

I don't get it emperor or deity more often than not.

"Now about my game. I'm trying to play the french, because of there industrious and commercial ways. Is it a good choice ? I now that on the forum you've all said what your best civ is."

Yes, it is fine.

	12-08-2003 23:54									#3
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How did you get on with monarch & emperor levels, forwax?

	13-08-2003 02:44									#4
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skiped it... Always, since civ1, played the easiest game to know what i'm playing (to what button do what and how it work) then sometime I will play 1 degree less than the tougher level or begin to play a the toughest game... all of this because I'm head strong (in french we say "tête de cochon" )

I'm starting a new game now at deity on pangea map and I think I have a great site for a start (cow and wheat + 1 luxurie from the start and another lux 5-6 tile from my capital... AND iron and horse 5-6 tile from the capitol too.

It just that at 16 civ even on a huge map every body is close (and worst of all, zulu, japan and viking are my closest enemy). will a to REX a bit better then what I'm used to.

	13-08-2003 02:47									#5
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forgot to tell that my capitol is on a river and that there is a lot of them on the continent (i guess)

	13-08-2003 03:48									#6
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quote: Originally posted by forwax ... all of this because I'm head strong (in french we say "tête de cochon" )

A sign of greater "head strength" would be to try and figure out how to beat the game yourself at a lower difficulty level, rather than asking others how to do it here!

But seriously, you don't need a great start, or a free settler, or the Great Library to beat Deity. In fact, there is no one way to do it, depending on the map. We know at least one person who beats deity even when starting alone on an iceberg.

	13-08-2003 03:50									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

alexman who was that? Aeson?

	13-08-2003 03:54									#8
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yes, Aeson indeed, in his "So very cold..." thread, although the screenshots are now gone and it makes for a much less entertaining read.

	13-08-2003 03:57									#9
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Aeson sure is amazing

	13-08-2003 05:16									#10
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forwax sounds like you are in good shape to me.

	15-08-2003 03:20									#11
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Alexman and Cort Haus are right, so are my wiser side... I should play at lease 1-2 game at a lesser level... Maybe I'll do it if I'm not able to beat the AI with this game.

	15-08-2003 16:25									#12
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I did exactly the same as you, forwax. The difference is that I realized my mistake and went down to monarch. After beating monarch easily I went to empire and discovered that wasn't that much of a challenge either. Now I have to choose between a near guaranteed win and a near guaranteed loss.

*can't wait to try demi-god*

PS. Remind me never to play against Aeson in multiplayer

	16-08-2003 14:02									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Actually, it wouldn't be all that hard to use the editor to create a "demi-god" level. I've thought a time or two about reconfiguring Deity to give the AI the other Deity-level bonuses but not the extra settler and see how that works.

	16-08-2003 22:09									#14
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Nathan, would you mind trying that with the latest iteration of the AU Mod? I've wanted to have an AU Mod+ to play around with for a while.

	17-08-2003 12:42									#15
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this is what my game look like for now at 70 AD... I think I got a "fair" game.

AD_70.SAV

	17-08-2003 18:23									#16
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Seriously, I am utterly amazed at how big a difference a Cow or Wheat resource makes for the early game. It is virtually a game breaker. If one player starts with none (as I have in some PBEMs) and others start with one in their initial radius by the time you reach the Medieval Age the one with the Wheat is typically twice as large as the one without.

It all depends on who can get to bonus food resources the quickest. One in the initial radius is a big plus, one in the expanded radius is a plus, and a few just outside the radius for your secondary cities is a distinct advantage.

Now if that is compounded, say one in the initial radius and then another in the expanded radius, they stack to give an even greater boost to the early game. Strategy is important, Luxs are advantages as your cities grow larger, but the lack of Luxuries can be offset with the Luxury slider. Bonus food resources cannot be offset with anything in my opinion.

	17-08-2003 23:20									#17
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quote: Originally posted by forwax this is what my game look like for now at 70 AD... I think I got a "fair" game. [[/URL]

Not sure what you mean by fair. You have some good land, but are in the midst of some storms coming your way. You have at least two wars going and a few that look to be about to enter the fray. With so many civs nearby you will have to defend on all fronts, if things go bad.
You are 11TH or worse in all of the good categories out of 16. So that will need to be improved soon. If you can get some land from the wars and not lose yours, then you could make a turn around.
Being last place in the score by 70AD is not promising. I only say about 7 workers for something like 15 cities, so they will be hard pressed and could be exposed to raids with the long thin border you have.
The city gov is not doing the kind of job you will need at this level in this spot. In Orleans, a citizen was working an unmined or irrigated tile while a mine shielded grassland tile was idle.
Research was set to 10% on Fuedalism. This with +89 gold per turn? You have wars going and are not moving hard to get pikes? With 520 gold in the bank, I would at least move up a few notches. Just to 20% reduced the time from 25 turns to 13. At 50% you get it in 5 turns. Now you will have pikes and be much safer. Likely it will cost you nothing as it is only -5 gold and you will recoup most of that on the last turn.
If you can avoid others from coming at you, you could survive. I think Japand had a bunch of troops in your land, I did not see if they were after some one else or if they think you are it. I know there were at least 5 civs with units in your land, that is omnimus.
Good luck

	18-08-2003 16:37									#18
	Increase Your PM Length

Forwax,
I play deity only and cheating only.
Ceating is often a point of view though .
I usually do cheat much more than i suggest below.

An Initial good starting location has 1 cow, 1 on other luxury and one river (touching city tile).

To be (only) good it must also be far away (as far as possible) from Other Civs: Save and do retire after the second turn and you'll see where the others start from.

A very good one is one like above that has at its borders a territory with same caracteristics, allowing you to start with also the second city to grow quickly.

The most important thing you can get from good huts are knowledges, not settlers. To this purpouse in order to (try to) arrive asap to Monarchy, which is a milstone in you progress, You must initially choose to search for Alphabet (40 turns) and then Writing (40 turns). This is becaus in goodhuts you tend to discover knowlegdges different from the ones you are researching.

The first most importnat wonder is Piramids, the second geat Library. If AI do any of these, quit and start a new game.

Tribe: I tend to play America or Arabia: Expasionism (both) gives you the scout that allows you to look from the beginning for goodhuts (hope to discover Civ Advances - keep Science at 10% up to litterature). America: workers work faster which is important in huge maps like I like to play. Arabia - Religiuos is quicker to do Temples and Cathedral ( early stage city Improvem.) and only 1 turn (or may be 2) of anarchy after revolution.
To this regard bear in mind that at deity it will often end up with a ICBM war, therefor the short anarchycould be very relevant.

Have good day

	20-08-2003 23:00									#19
	Increase the size of your Attachments

That's kinda harsh. I don't think you have to quit if you don't get the Pyramids or Great Library. I haven't found the GL to be all that important in my games.

	21-08-2003 07:15									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Yeah , if I quit every game at deity that I failed to get those two wonders, I would hardly get in a game.
Show some perservance. You do not need either to win at any level.

	21-08-2003 16:03									#21
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The biggest improvement to my chances at winning Diety level games was getting my second city founded ASAP.

	21-08-2003 19:12									#22
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Is it possible to build the Pyramids before the AI on deity? And you can live without them. Atleast I hope so, in my latest game as Chinese I realized that I couldn't afford to build any wonders since the Japanese and the Indians had me completly surrounded after I've built four cities. Now I'm wading through the Japanese to get my lebensraum. I just discovered he had iron and I don't, though.

I did just get a great leader though. Is it worth it to save him until I get literacy or just turn him into an army?

Work order for first 2-3 cities:

City 1:
Warriors until I can build settler.
Spearmen or archers until I can build settler. Repeat.
(Occasionally I build a barracks, temple or granary instead of warriors/spearmen/archers, depending on terrain and objectives).

City 2:
Temple, Palace, Switch to Great Library

City 3+:
See city 1.

If I have lots of room to REX in I will build a granary in the first 3-4 low food cities (2/square). In tight maps where I plan to war early and I'm militaristic, I build barracks early. If I'm religious and need culture, or have no luxuries I build temples early.

I have yet to win a game on deity with anything other than a huge map, max civs, however. But I believe it's my lack of warring skills that does that.

	21-08-2003 19:34									#23
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NEVER save a Leader. Unless you are done with war and aren't going to fight with any Elites until after you use the Leader.

	21-08-2003 19:35									#24
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vmxa1 : I only said fair because it is possible but will have to work hard to win.

Will have 1 week vacancy starting tomorrow (friday) so... )