12-08-2003 14:19									#1
	Southern europe destroyed in fires. What to do? Increase the size of your Attachments

As you already know hundreds of fires have left much of Southern europe looking like moon landscape

What should we do? I blame the tourists from the north. They are the culprits for most of the fires. Should there be a tax in northern europe intended to fight fires in the south? I think there should

It annoyed me to no end to see in news every day how my country (and also Portugal, France, Greece..) burns while I was sitting in the shade and drinking a cool drink and played cards, etc. The news took some pleasure out of my holidays

It seems Romano Prodi shares my opinion. He suggested creating a joint european firefighting force which would be organized and payed for by the north

Everybody has to contribute you know. We are talking about true disaster here. What are your opinions on this?

	12-08-2003 14:21									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I don't understand how can you blame us (north) for this

	12-08-2003 14:22									#3
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You shoud definately set up a disaster relief fund, if you haven't already done so. That's how we do it in the United States.

	12-08-2003 14:24									#4
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What shocked me was the number of poeple killed in the fires. In the United States and Australia, you get lots of property damge, but few deaths or injuries. Of course, we deal with it every year, and people in fire-prone regions know what they're supposed to do.

Is this a new occurance in Europe?

	12-08-2003 14:26									#5
	Re: Southern europe destroyed in fires. What to do? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by VetLegion I blame the tourists from the north. They are the culprits for most of the fires

Sorry VetLegion, but that's ridiculous! Many of the fire are NOT accidental and are being lit by people from the area where they occur!

Why would they do that? Insurances, vendetta (see Corsica) or pyromania...

	12-08-2003 14:27									#6
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius I don't understand how can you blame us (north) for this

You set up the fires. I would bet on Finns especially but I have no evidence.

What is wrong with you people? You come here, we show you our legendary hospitality and you burn our forests

	12-08-2003 14:28									#7
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Mad Monk, it is different when america burns. There is a lot of stuff to burn there so it is not such a big disaster. Forests in S europe are pretty scarce so it is a disaster when one tree, one branch or one leaf burns

	12-08-2003 14:29									#8
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vet:

	12-08-2003 14:31									#9
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Is that first sentence Sig Material? Oh yes it is!

Vet, reread what I wrote. I'm not saying it isn't a disaster.

	12-08-2003 14:32									#10
	Re: Re: Southern europe destroyed in fires. What to do? Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Cyrion Sorry VetLegion, but that's ridiculous! Many of the fire are NOT accidental and are being lit by people from the area where they occur! Why would they do that? Insurances, vendetta (see Corsica) or pyromania...

I agree Cyrion, some fires are lit by locals too. But do you agree you should contribute more to fire protection here? We cant do it ourselves and you people don't even care. It is not much to ask, is it?

	12-08-2003 14:32									#11
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I sense a troll, but will respond seriously:

In my opinion, the problem should be treated while in it's stem. You should send high altitude airplanes to monitor the forest during high-danger of fire days, so that once there is fire, it would be immedeately put off, before it spreads.

	12-08-2003 14:32									#12
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All of them are sig material, MMonk

	12-08-2003 14:33									#13
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion You set up the fires. I would bet on Finns especially but I have no evidence. What is wrong with you people? You come here, we show you our legendary hospitality and you burn our forests

9/10

	12-08-2003 14:36									#14
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quote: But do you agree you should contribute more to fire protection here?

No, not really.

However, I would support some kind of disaster relief fund that ALL european countries paid into and that was for helping the victims of disaster in ALL of those countries. (Fire, flood, earthquake etc..)

	12-08-2003 14:37									#15
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Azazel, we do that, but it is not enough. If there is wind, it only takes a half an hour for fire to spread to a pretty big area and since most terrain here is pretty inacessible you have to put it off from air and that is not as efficient as you might think.

	12-08-2003 14:40									#16
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet quote: But do you agree you should contribute more to fire protection here? No, not really. However, I would support some kind of disaster relief fund that ALL european countries paid into and that was for helping the victims of disaster in ALL of those countries. (Fire, flood, earthquake etc..)

That is what I am talking about!

If there is money left from the fires, sure, lets fight floods too

But seriously, yes, this is a far better way to spend money then joint armed forces or simmilar nonsense.

	12-08-2003 14:41									#17
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In days such as these, planes should be at a standby numbered in minutes! I don't think enough is done.

	12-08-2003 14:49									#18
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Ofcourse not enough is done! We don't have enough planes!

I am trying to find a number on how much Portugal burned but I cant. I heard about one third. It will take decades for them to recover.

	12-08-2003 14:50									#19
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Yup, the southern Europeans are too poor and too lazy to solve their own problems, so we should help them

	12-08-2003 14:56									#20
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quote: Originally posted by August Borms Yup, the southern Europeans are too poor and too lazy to solve their own problems, so we should help them

You should

- Too poor?

How can we be rich when our timber exports are next to none, thanks to negligence of north europeans. Did you know a thrown away coca-cola can can act as lens and start a forest fire? Think about that.

- Too lazy?

We aren't allowed to have holidays in the summer, just because our country is burning (thanks to you)? Hypocrite northener

	12-08-2003 15:08									#21
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You're absolutely right, I'll start a campaign to collect aluminium foil for the poor little southerners, like my parents/grandparents used to do for the poor little negroes in the Congo

	12-08-2003 15:24									#22
	Re: Southern europe destroyed in fires. What to do? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by VetLegion It annoyed me to no end to see in news every day how my country (and also Portugal, France, Greece..) burns while I was sitting in the shade and drinking a cool drink and played cards, etc. The news took some pleasure out of my holidays

And what exactly have YOU done about this problem, apart from calling for someone else to pay for it?

I smell a true european!

On a more serious note, forests burn from time to time. It's natural for them to do so and promotes regeneration. To paraphrase another poster "If God hadn't meant for there to be forest fires, he wouldn't have made trees out of WOOD".

	12-08-2003 15:28									#23
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"If God hadn't meant for there to be forest fires, he wouldn't have made trees out of WOOD".

paradoric?

	12-08-2003 15:41									#24
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Cerberus we are not talking about forests burning we are talking about countries burning. A third of Portugal. Is that supposed to happen?

These forests are not in the least natural. They are lit by subversive elements and Belgian terrorists such as A. Broms here. Humans, if you stretch the definition

And what I have done is not important, what is important is what you should be doing? Since obviously, you are doing too little.

	12-08-2003 15:48									#25
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quote: Originally posted by ottok "If God hadn't meant for there to be forest fires, he wouldn't have made trees out of WOOD". paradoric?

Exacty. Remind me to regenerate some english forests when I go there next time

	12-08-2003 15:55									#26
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You are burning for this topic aren't you?

Perhaps the Yanks can help you by sending a Bush?

	12-08-2003 15:55									#27
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Vet, what you are doing is simple trolling and helps nobody.


These arsonists should be caught, that's all.

	12-08-2003 16:01									#28
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Flandrien, no, it is not trolling (in the best case, it is I who is being trolled )

There will always be arsonists, every new generation will bring new ones to us. It can't be helped. But by investing more in firefighting we can reduce the damage.

So I start a discussion how rest of europe can help southern europe and I get trashed as being 'poor and lazy'

	12-08-2003 16:02									#29
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OK, let's be serious for a moment.

So at least some of the fires were deliberate. Then catching the people who started them is a job for the police in the countries affected.

Firefighting services are the responsibility of the regional and national governments in the areas affected. If the politicians have neglected investment in the service they should be held to account.

Are these forests actively managed? Who owns them and have the landowners actually done any work to thin out trees, remove dead trees and all the other things that constitute forest management. In the UK there are grants available to help pay for such work. Some of the funding is from the EU AFAIK so it should be available elsewhere in europe for similar purposes.

I remember a TV programme a few years ago about Yellowstone National Park in the USA. They had a policy of putting out all fires, then one year they had a massive fire that devastated a lot of the park because all the dead wood and undergrowth had not been burned out by smaller fires. Now they allow some fires to burn and don't get big ones any more.

My point is that it is OK to ask for help in a crisis but not without looking at why things have got so bad and not without a plan to stop it happening on this scale again in the future.

So, apart from this being an exceptionally dry year, what other factors and neglect have contributed?

	12-08-2003 16:06									#30
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As for starting a few fires in UK forests, it is possible but most of our woodland is planted and has firebreaks kept clear. It is also too wet for most of the year.

If you like living somewhere sunny (and I am thinking about moving to southern europe because I loathe the UK climate) there is a downside. Get used to it or come and live in the UK.