15-08-2003 21:25									#1
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Orders thread, post em if you got em.

I want to emphasize that I strongly believe we need to cut our trade for Iron this turn and have all cities with Barracks and the southern cities build Horsemen this turn.

I would urge us to rush one Barracks in probably Murcia and in all the other cities rush Horsemen (yes I know they will be Regular) for an Auxilary to our southern force. I only support rushing units in the south as a delaying action while the northern force is build and then upgraded five turns from now.

PREVIOUS HOLDINGS:
Camulodunum_____Unorthodox

Zenophobia_______MasterZen

Trafalgar_________Panzer32

Bad Karma_________Hot_Enamel
Dungeon__________Hot_Enamel
The Hill___________Hot_Enamel

Camp Cod________Panzer32
Imperial City______Panzer32
Camp Concord_____Panzer32

Macao____________Donegeal (GhengisFarb)
Drednoughtica_____Donegeal (GhengisFarb)

Skulgaria__________Aggie
Chinan____________Aggie
Shantung__________Aggie
Kaifeng___________Aggie
Port Isolation_______Aggie






REQUESTED CHANGES TO HOLDINGS:
Camulodunum_____Unorthodox

Zenophobia_______MasterZen

Trafalgar_________Panzer32

Ningpo______________GhengisFarb
Paoting______________GhengisFarb


Bad Karma_________Hot_Enamel changed to GhengisFarb
Dungeon__________Hot_Enamel
The Hill___________Hot_Enamel

Camp Cod________Panzer32 to Aggie
Imperial City______Panzer32 to Aggie
Camp Concord_____Panzer32 to Aggie

Macao____________Donegeal (GhengisFarb) to GhengisFarb
Drednoughtica_____Donegeal (GhengisFarb)

Skulgaria__________Aggie to Donegeal
Chinan____________Aggie to Panzer32
Shantung__________Aggie to Panzer32
Kaifeng___________Aggie to Panzer32
Port Isolation_______Aggie to Panzer32

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 15-08-2003 at 21:53

	15-08-2003 21:37									#2
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ok, if we do switch to horsemen, here are the cities we should not change as it would waste shields:

Trafalgar
Bad Karma
Camp Cod
The Hill
Camp Concord
Drednoughtica

(edit - I mean don't switch to horse before they finish current project, ie Rider)

For the other cities, a horseman will take as long as a pikeman to build.

Also, currently, we don't have horses in the southern RP territory so we can't build horseman :/

And speaking as MoIA, currently (assuming Leos) we only have the resources to upgrade 3 horsemen. I forsee this changing once we get Invention and start on 100% tax.. even if we are helping Legos with gunpowder.

	15-08-2003 21:58									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

That's the point, we cut off Iron now and when the Riders finish we start building Horsemen. In two turns when we finish Invention we go to 100% tax for the four turns it takes to finish Leonardo's.

	15-08-2003 22:02									#4
	Remove this text

Ok, I' have decided that we will wait until the big camps finish riders(and start on others) to cut iron. with their production we waste tons of shields with horsemen. My suggestion is this, lets change the pike up north to horse when this occurs. Yes we have one less defensive unit, but we get(for 80) a rider that can attack and defend. In the south do spearman. A barracks in say merida or Salamanaca if it survives is reasonable . also those workers on the mountain can road and thus connect us to iron(and luxuries for the north).
Of course it depends on what happens. If Salamanca falls and the works fall it will be longer for the road. an arguement could be made to keep iron connected and then spend the 76 for barracks in the south(Salamanca is my suggestion). Then make that where we rush(horsemen and then upgrade, cost per rider is 156(40 for upgrade,116 for rush). I'm still calculating what is best and will get back to you all on this item. That means we will have saved up 390 extra before Leonardos. that meams we can upgrade 9 horse to riders if we can produce by that time. Forr every southern upgrade just subtract 156. But think of it this way. Once we have done that there will be turns with no horse. Then we can do an upgrade in the south, also remember we will only spend 116 at first for the Horse and the 40 is later.
Aggie

Last edited by Aggie on 15-08-2003 at 22:47

	15-08-2003 22:38									#5
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Ok, i've just done an experiment with one of my games. You can reconnect iron and it still produces the horse, until next civ advance. So we can disconnect and reconnect as needed to either get camps on Riders or the smaller cities on Horse. Also remember that it might be possible to speed up leonardo's to less turns if we reduce the shields on the camps. If we desired and it was economical. We could have them produce only 10 shields a turn and perhaps more money and food(from coastal). I haven't checked this though. We will be producing 130 gpt once we get invention done. That is 3 Rider a turn with Leonardoes. I'll have to make some calculations and timetables test what is optimal. My gut instinct is that the big camps and capital produce riders and the other produce horse. This would probably give enough extra to rush horse and barracks in the south.
Aggie

	16-08-2003 03:47									#6
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OK I have done the numbers and analysis. I have one order to our ND, ambassador "Cut the !#!#$#iron". If we do that we will be able to produce 30 riders over the next 10 turns. 5 Riders, 27 Horse. At 130 a turn for 8 turns(after invention) will will have approx(after considering an average of 20 extra units, for safty margin) 110*8 =880. with leonardos that = 22 upgrades to Rider for a total of 27 riders in the next 10 turns with 5 more horse able to be upgraded. Now how much will we have to donate for Lego to get GP qiuickly.
Aggie

	16-08-2003 06:26									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Guys remember we have to supplement income to Lego to research gunpowder quickly. It might be up to 80 gold/turn

Having said that, it will probably be only for about 5 turns or so.

	16-08-2003 06:41									#8
	Got spare money?

That is true, but regardless we can produce more Riders this way and hopefully we can coordinate this with ND. Also we have an extra 120 or so already. Now after GP is discovered we will have the musket upgrades. so much is uncertain. but we can easily end up at 20 riders in next 10 turns. Which will leave GS in a hopeless position. Or we could suggest the Lego take another turn. Who is the Lego ammassador, he should inform Lego that we will be giving invention in 2 turns. Of course this could meam more money to them because they have less time to build up money.
Aggie

	16-08-2003 18:48									#9
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There's still the question of who will have saltpeter and how long it may take to hook up.

	16-08-2003 19:12									#10
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CoIA and King of Trafalgar and Isolationia orders

(btw, Isolationia = Chinan, Shantung, Kaifeng, and Port Isolation)

-Republic Worker 3 road.
-Port Isolation builds worker, rename to Isolation worker and move west (to hook up PI)

-I am not sure of where XXII Imperial Guard moved to last turn. I was moving it to Chinan, so rename to XXII Chinan Guard. If it moves into Chinan this turn request move IIIrd Imperial Infantry towards Kaifeng.

Ghengis (and Aggie): This is the tile numbering system that we (or at lease H_E and I) use:


Trafalgar:
-change workforce to 1,3,4,5,7,11,20; unless this makes a Rider in over 2 turns in which case switch the 20 to and 8.
-keep on Rider production.

Chinan:
-change workforce to work tile 7 (grassland)
-change build to worker (from walls)

Shantung:
-change workforce to work tiles 1,4 (wheat and game)
-should be building forbidden palace. no change.

Kaifeng:
-should be working tile 8
-change build to worker (from walls)

Port Isolation:
-should be working tiles 1,4.
-should be done a worker, build a settler.

	16-08-2003 22:19									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

yah. panzer I know the system well. It is the same one from the demogame. After doing for whta seemed 50 cities a turn I have it down pretty well.. Also Ghengis you have a point there, but honestly I intend to be on offense so that would be where I'd spend the money. Now if a GS invasion force arrived, I might up grade units near to the fight. But if one does, with current plans of production, we will have plenty to meet it. Also I think we should send riders(10) down and then use the next 10 for defense. I really don't see a danger of invasion, but if it happens, we can always use the city switch exploit to get troops home. We might lose Port Isolations but that is all. Me and Darekill decided they would pillage and attack open units and wear down toledo(to 6) and then when the next wave form the north arrives we can attack. Does this sound reasonable.
Aggie

	16-08-2003 23:08									#12
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First of all, Spain ain't out yet, they have lost virtually no troops in this war and have a HUGE army around their Capital. I image its a mere token force in Barcelona, especially since GS rushed to cut us off from attacking it.

The south is now defensive for us, prevent RP/GS from regaining ground. The offensive must be built, organized, and sent out from our homeland.

A negoitiated cease-fire would be ideal, but I would only accept it if it was offered from our enemies first, our bringing up would let them know we don't have a secondary offensive on the way.

	16-08-2003 23:18									#13
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I agree, thats why I want to lay seize to their capital and cut the pop down. I suspect the have around 20 real units + catapults. They have to pay for that somehow. We need to pillage roads and put a rider or 2 on that gold. I know GS will pay for their troops, but lets make them do it. Also it would be worth it to take away their food. Us and ND have the troops(particularly ND). losses can be replaced but if we drive down the pop its like taking out 25% of units. The forces in the south could be hard pressed. I would almost be worth it to build spear and upgrade to pike down there. We also need to do regular scounting to make sure that Gs doesn' try coming W. I think the best defense strategy will be to let the riders all heal and then us a offesnive defense. With roads this is possible. Make GS cover their advance with pike. This gives us time to build and for the north Riders to get down and us to seriously degrade RP.
Aggie

Last edited by Aggie on 16-08-2003 at 23:24

	17-08-2003 01:54									#14
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Let's rush Spearman down there then and build a get at least one Barracks. ND is only one tile from connecting these cities to their homeland and a turn here and there of Iron will allow us to upgrade those Spearmen to Pike.

We pull the Riders back to heal, and use fully healed ones to run in pillage tiles and then run out.

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 17-08-2003 at 02:01

	17-08-2003 03:01									#15
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Worker actions for down south

-Stack of 3 workers roads mountain where they are according to pic in 110ad thread.
-Send the other one (two if we capture the other RP worker) north or northwest. They will travel over the road the others are making and head to GoW lands through ND territory. The reasons for this are simple: none of those RP cities are going to be productive and why should we improve them because ND just gets that land anyways

As CoIA, I accept the rushing of two (2) spearman, expected to come to a total of 156 gold. Reasons are simple - we don't have the gold for more Also, I suggest we rush in Salamanca and Valencia (as they are close to the front and the one other is in resistance)

	17-08-2003 04:50									#16
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They sounds like a very good plan. Who edited Panzer32's original post so that it would be a good plan?

	17-08-2003 05:28									#18
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Ya'll two agreeing. Impossible. . I know ghengis and Panzer can't just of written what I see above. If this is true, it must be a sign of the apocalypse.
Aggie

	17-08-2003 05:32									#19
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Minister of Hot Places orders

(a self-appointed position)

-Throw CrazyGhengis into the lake of fire
-Trow worker "Trip" there too to make sure KrAZiE gHeyNGySS stays down there

	17-08-2003 05:39									#20
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oh... change the name of "Sir Agent of Chaos" to "IIIrd Sir Agent of Chaos". I forgot to put the IIIrd in there when naming the unit initially.

	17-08-2003 07:09									#21
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Wait a minute.....

I am COW now,

Take ALL Numbers from in front of the units names.
Yeehaw! I can finally fix that!

CoW orders will be issued when we get the save. Its simply logic, I will not know how many units or what the strategic view of the battlefield is until our enemies have had their turns. Therefore I can not give optimum orders until I see our postion.

	17-08-2003 07:26									#22
	Remove this text

Will do Ghengis. The main purpose of the numbers was to mislead RP about our numbers by making them think we had more "corp". At this point they serve no purpose. Though I have toyed with the idea of making sentences out of the troops if they line up. For example when we have the 10 units up north later we can put them on the coast with taunting message toward GS. One could be called "you suck" and the next one could be called "GS chickens". So the sentence is "you suck, GS chickens". Or we could called units near RP "Go, home, give up. Your wife is with MWIA". In my actually games I almost never name the units but internally. But I figured we could have some fun with our dear oponents. FYI I also told ND to give us a status report for the front when they get the save. That won't help with all our forces but will do for some. I also always waited until I had the current save also, to make actual orders.
Aggie

Last edited by Aggie on 17-08-2003 at 07:32

	17-08-2003 07:31									#23
	Got spare money?

The numbers were used to make a military history like the US has, every unit's regimental designation has a history behind it, the most illustrious ones are last ones disbanded and they are always grouped with the units they have traditionally fought with. For example, after WWII and Patton's blitz of Europe Third Army had the most illustrious history. Hence Third Army was the one left active. The Pentegon, and all the Commands are units of Third Army.

Unfortunately, this plan was derailed by my being reactivated in RL so its kinda gone out the window now.

	17-08-2003 07:45									#24
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ok, I didn't realize the numbers went that far back in the game. Right before the RP attack I had suggested Naming such as I(1/10) and II(3/10) to imply that we had more than 1 group. Obviosuly this was never done(shows how rarely I actually look at the names). But your idea still has merit. Since these units have fought more or less together it is easy to have a designation for them. The Rider force down there could be the 1st and the 10 heading down in the future could have the 2nd designation. Or we could designate the northern defensive units the 1st and label these other something else. Just an idea. Or instead of numbers we could use names or area of intial assigment(#'s are more natural for me).
Aggie

	17-08-2003 09:29									#25
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I want a XXXII (32) in front of my units

	17-08-2003 17:26									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 I want a XXXII (32) in front of my units

Then build 32 of them and the 32nd one will be the XXXII.

	17-08-2003 18:26									#27
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We have a problem with cutting the iron. We have 14 turns left on the deal, and other than war there is no reasonable way to cut it. We have a harbor so cutting the road make no sense. If they pillage that source it would cut theirs not ours. We could build and upgrade them in the south is another option. This 156 after leo's and is plausable, except that we can't build horsemen until horse are connected but once horse are connect they will have iron, so that is out too. Both me and Darekill belive that using war for this purpose is an exploit and one we shouldn't use. An idea I have is this, we pillage both irons and then reroad them. Please suggest ideas.
Aggie

	17-08-2003 19:41									#28
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Name of new rider from the Hill

Sir Rendah

	17-08-2003 19:44									#29
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I think we discussed this before.
War was the only way to stop an trade.

It was the only method available to overcome the stupid Civ programming of only allowing 20 turns trades.

We can declare war... then offer peace on the same turn.
Its not an exploit... no more than pillaging iron to break the 20 turn rule.

Regs

	17-08-2003 21:06									#30
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I don't think a quick war would be an exploit at all. All we have to do is for ND to cancel peace (making war) then offer it accepted again. Then on our turn we accept and were at peace but the deal is canceled.

Now, if we really wanted an exploit, we would declare war on each other every 5 turns to gain the benefit of negative war weariness!