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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:30
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time for a counter attack on the GoW homeland?
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Theseus
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The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:30
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Here is what I envision:
I think that both ND and GoW are overcommitted and undermanned. Yes, they both have the awesome advantage of 3-move attack units... but they have themselves created the situation that will be their undoing.
Think of where there strength is: to the northwest. By extending so far into RP's lands, they have created an arc around the RP/GS core. That arc is the key... that is where we will force both to waste their 3-moves.
Give NM back to RP. We keep Toledo... both of our teams need a forward city to heal troops.
We jointly turtle. Perhaps that is the wrong image; we create a FORTRESS, we control the key defense points, we force ND and GoW into kill zones of our design. We LASH OUT at them as they futily try to control the non-productive territory that they so foolishly think they have won.
Keep enough of a mobile threat in the west and south that they are forced to continue to commit resources there, and waste their 3-moves on that distance. But no set piece battles until they are drained, and until we are able to use our production advantage to bring massive troops in for the kill, at a place and time of our own choosing.
We are Russia in the 50s and 60s of the real world. We will use space, the arc, the space that they have 'won', to our advantage. And then, as NATO used to say, we will roll over them... when quantity has a quality all its own.
Specifics to follow.
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:30
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The way I see it is this:
The situation we currently find ourselves in is strongly similar to the situation we found ourselves in, during the last war.
On Bob, we are outgunned, and out-maneuvered at present.
And, just like that last war, we've got 100% of our native productive capability (back on the home continent) to help us weather the storm.
The techs have changed, but the game remains largely the same, and what will win us this war is a fallback to the fundamentals.
We have to be committed to making the sacrifices necessary.
That means getting workers onto the beachhead property, battoning down the hatches, and staking a strong claim to what's ours and what's gonna stay ours, and building out from lthere like an irresistable hurricane.
It means mapping out (per NYE's screenie above), some turf and honestly assessing what, and where specifically we're gonna do to keep it.
It means keeping every boat we have in the water righteously busy ferrying more guys across the pond to keep on bolstering our strength, and when we're ready, it means knocking the p*ss out of our enemies....one at a time (whomever it's most convenient/easiest to strike at, we naile them to the freakin' wall while holding against the other side.
Once we bring about one side's swift destruction (which should be easy with an ally in tow), then we'll be poised to end the matter decisively.
The trick to countering Lego's involvement is to ensure that our ally grows as we grow on Bob....so that if Lego jumps in, it merely evens things back out to a 2:2 fight (and if we focus all efforts on one unfortunate civ, that's exactly what it'd be).
-=Vel=-
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:30
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We're gonna need a lot of pikemen.
I think we may also wish to ponder the usefulness of Med Inf vis-a-vis Knights. Same attack value, 4/7th the cost. They are basically good cheap counterattackers (from which Riders/Ansars can retreat). Bombard with cats, hit with Meds, finish with Knights. The Meds will be good for chewing through pikes protecting invasion stacks.
Can someone with access to the save have a look at the shields/turn of each of our major cities and figure out how many turns it takes each of those cities to build 1) pikemen, 2) med infs, and 3) knights?
I have a sneaking suspicion that it might be best to pretty much stop building Knights, at least for the time being.
We also need to consider whether or not we ought to cut our own iron so we can build WCs/Horsies for upgrade. If we do want to do that, we'd better have a good plan for exactly how long it will remain cut, and synchronize production (probably with the use of some rushing and some prebuilds) such that once the iron is cut, a bunch of cities switch to WCs/Horsies. Then, via shortrushing and whatnot, have them all complete within a turn or two of each other, and have the iron hooked back up the following turn. That would require some serious planning. Incidentally, we could also consider the use of warriors -> med inf upgrades. Expensive, but we could get a lot of med infs that way.
Also, if perchance we get another leader (not that it's much of a probability. AFAIK, we don't even have any elite units over on Bob, excepting 1 pikeman), I think Leo's becomes a huge priority. Of course we'd rather have a palace move, but we've gotta be able to win the war in order to protect that, and winning the war is very much in doubt. With Leo's, though, using iron cutting/upgrading could be a war-winner.
Oh, yeah, research... We should inquire as to the possibility of getting Invention from Vox or Lego. If we can't, we should wait until it's gone around and then crank our research up to get it ASAP.
-Arrian
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:30
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We should, however, begin making serious plans to see to the eventual elimination of one of the two civs we face. It does us no good to attack them both in concert. They'll come to us in that regard, so our focus should be on forming an impenatrable defense against the best they can collectively throw at us, while actively plotting one civ's demise (whichever one it's easiest to hit in force, with a combination of landed troops via our navy, and our growing collection of assets on Bob. Once we secure the beach head, the next "load" of troops can be used in an "Inchon" type landing to begin our attack, but...that's a ways down the road. First, we build up the beach head and secure our foothold, then rescue what cities we can of our allies, then hit hard. 
-=Vel=-
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:30
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The only problem I have with the plan as outlined above is that it makes the South of what we currently hold on Bob as something to trap forces in (and defend while doing it), while we attack up North.... I would rather see a similar plan for the other side, and focus on either getting the ND - former RP cities back, or taking back the South first, and defend that. We need to get some territory back for RP, so they can be of a bigger help to us, we can't face 2 GA opponents alone (well, we can probably defend against them, but not take them out comfortably).
Actually, perhaps it's best to go after ND, while defending from returning riders. If we can take control of Zara, and keep it this time, we should make it a lot easier to have a forward beachhead into ND's territory. If everyone suspects we go after the South next, we might be able to surprise them again... and for the moment, ND and GoW homecountry is not so well defended, given their strength compared to RP. We still haven't lost a lot of troops yet, while the rest has been hurting.
The only real disadvantage I see to this tactic is that right now, most of the riders are damaged. By leaving them alone for a couple of turns, they are given the opportunity to heal. Which makes them harder to kill, of course.
DeepO
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:30
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Yes...we absolutely need to get our ally back into this fight, and quickly! Even with all our production advantages, the fact is, we've got two civs in their GA against us, every city we take back from the bad guys and give to our ally, is one less GA city for the enemy. That needs to happen, despite the difficulty it may present (fortunately for us, they haven't started to wholesale burn them down....yet).
If we can easily reach wounded troops, then by all means, we should gun for them, but this should not be a priority IF it means exposing our own forces for dangerous periods of time.
The wounded will heal if left alone, yes, but the time they spend doing that = time for us to build more pikes and med infs, such that when they strike again, we're even stronger.
Their GA's will end, and when they do, it will rob them of a significant portion of the production they're seeing right now. All we gotta do is weather that storm and gain steady ground for our ally to keep them in the game and make them a viable partner (even if they can do little more than hold the line while we do the heavy lifting, hey....it's that much!).
Three things we need to do then are:
1) Get our ally back into the game as a serious junior partner.
2) Defend what's ours and what's his (our ally)
3) HURT our enemy. Let them come to us for now (once we have staked out a perimeter), and when he comes, nail them to the friggin' wall. ONE SINGLE well-won battle can irreparably damage their morale and will to fight, so let's hand them their arses.
-=Vel=-
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zeit
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Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:30
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We can't just defend right now- time doesn't work for us, which is not like things were in the Voxian war- we can't just turtle and wait for them- when they'll come they'll be more powerful than we are.
GoW is an easy nut to crack, especiall now that their troops are behind enemy lines... we'll have to deal with them before we move towards ND. 8-9 healthy riders on our flank is not something I'm too fond of, and dealing with those troops they have in a manner that leaves them with no gains is a great way to leave them out of the game, at least partially.
As much as I would love to turtle in and let them come to us, we can't just do that, for two main reasons:
1) The enemy probably has a production advantage, and powerful UUs.
2)Gunpowder is coming soon- we'll have no real gains after that until Chivalry comes along- Z and Co. should be in our hands by then (the obvious line of defense).
So, we should plan for either a move against ND, with GoW's riders kept in bay, or (as I prefer) a pincer movement against the south, regrouping, and a thrust at Z.
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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:30
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Frankly, defense is what screwed us in the first place. We had a tremendous uncrackable defense in Toledo, and what happened? GoW just waltzed by and took everything in the soft southern RP underbelly. Must control the riders first and hope that Pamplona doesn't fall.
Must strike GoW homeland soon to prevent reinforcement riders.
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:30
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I agree that we can't "just" defend, but we're in no position, from what I gather, to launch a general offensive right now....as I understand it, we lacked sufficient manpower to prevent several allied cities from falling into enemy hands recently. Sounds to me like we've got our hands rightfully full just maintaining the status quo and keeping our ally in the game.
To defend those cities after we retake them, we need pikes....LOTS of pikes.
I'd dearly love it if we had sufficient forces to retake (and hold) all the cities lost by our ally AND hand someone their butt in the next 3-5 turns, but in the reading I've done, I don't see much evidence of that.
This is not going to be a short war, IMO. It's going to be a long, nasty one, and to that end, we gotta have a viable ally, which means we gotta play heavy D for the time being and focus on getting some cities back....
-=Vel=-
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16-08-2003 09:09
so where is our advantage? I don't really know not having looked at the save for a while are we ahead in tech? Our super galleys, and sheers number give us the advantage. 
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