17-08-2003 02:12									#1
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Why is Bush a homophobe and a religious zealot?

First, the word homophode has such a loose meaning that almost anyone can be a homophobe by definition.

For example, I say that quotas to have a certain percent of workers in a workplace gay/of color/etc is wrong. I immediately I would be attacked as a racist and a homophobe. I am for gay marriage and most over civil liberties but the fact that i disagree with someone else on an issue makes me a homophobe in their eyes. At what point in time were we conditioned to think this way?

Second.
SHOW ME PROOF. GIVE ME A DIRECT QUOTE FROM BUSH THAT PROVES THAT HE IS A GAY BASHER, HOMOPHOBE OR WHATEVER LIBERAL INSPIRED/PHRASE WORD YOU WANT TO CHOOSE.

Onto religious zealot:

Hasnt every President mentioned god or quoted from the bible in the past? Why is it so wrong for a President to do so? Havent all of our Presidents, except for Kennedy (catholic), been white/male/Protestant. More important is the big issue... When did religion... i mean Christianity become a bad thing for politics. After all it is perfectly ok to be a Buddhist and in a government position because that promotes diversity.

Finally, the old definition of Zealot
noun any of the members of an extreme Jewish sect or political party that resisted all aspects of Roman rule in Palestine in the 1st century a.d. They would cut the throats of any Roman guard or wealthy traveler.

	17-08-2003 02:21									#2
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Bush is a Christian, like there's anything wrong with that.

	17-08-2003 02:23									#3
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If Bush is a Christian, then maybe he should follow Biblical principles a little better.

	17-08-2003 02:31									#4
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I don't know about homophobic, but certainly he's not very religious. What most people mistake for his religion is in fact an appeal to the alienated protestant honky culture that sprang up after the civil rights movement made it admirable to be a victim of society. The beliefs of said group aren't really connected or relevant to the Christian faith, and don't really count as a philosophy because they reflect an obsession with an idealized golden age that never really existed. All persecuted victim groups are that way if you ask me, but that's another story. The point is that his remarks were chosen to cater to the general insecurities of people who subscribe to an irrational worldview very loosely based on religion in the same sense that science fiction is based on science.
This has been a ramen dragon rant.

	17-08-2003 02:32									#5
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd If Bush is a Christian, then maybe he should follow Biblical principles a little better.

he's striking down the infadels good enough.

he's a fan of pre-covenant god. not that ***** neo-god.

	17-08-2003 02:33									#6
	Re: Bush is a what? Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by sprucemoose3311 For example, I say that quotas to have a certain percent of workers in a workplace gay/of color/etc is wrong. I immediately I would be attacked as a racist and a homophobe.

Oh bullshit. Who here has attacked anyone over not approving of quotas? News flash: most people, even blacks, don't approve of quotas. Show me some AA programs that rely on quotas. Oh, you can't, since quotas are illegal!

How this pertains to homosexuals I don't know, since the issue of "hiring quotas" for gays is nonexistant!

SHOW ME PROOF. GIVE ME A DIRECT QUOTE FROM SOMEONE THAT CALLS PEOPLE HOMOPHOBIC/RACIST FOR OPPOSING MANDATED HIRING QUOTAS!

	17-08-2003 02:39									#7
	Re: Re: Bush is a what? Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Show me some AA programs that rely on quotas.

The University of Michigan would do for a start.

	17-08-2003 02:39									#8
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc The University of Michigan would do for a start.

It didn't rely on quotas, DD. The point system didn't entail quotas.

	17-08-2003 02:41									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov It didn't rely on quotas, DD. The point system didn't entail quotas.

"Critical mass" is little more than a mushy code word they used.

	17-08-2003 02:48									#10
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bush is a what? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc "Critical mass" is little more than a mushy code word they used.

Did "Critical Mass" entail specific quotas? And just what did the SCOTUS say about that?

	17-08-2003 02:52									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov And just what did the SCOTUS say about that?

The difference between SCOTUS rulings and terms such as reality or common sense are sometimes quite vast. What's your point?

Edit: Damn you! You DanS'd me!

	17-08-2003 03:00									#12
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc The difference between SCOTUS rulings and terms such as reality or common sense are sometimes quite vast. What's your point?

Would you, for once, actually say something instead of making obtuse comments?

Why don't you quote for us the relevant passages of the official U of Mich policy that you seem to think establishes a quota for admission of minorities? That would help bolster your case.

	17-08-2003 03:03									#13
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When I was a little kid, bush was a plant that kind of looked like a small tree. Those where the days...

	17-08-2003 03:09									#14
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For DD:

http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/idaa/rebush.html

"We do not have, and have never had, quotas or numerical targets in either the Undergraduate or Law School admissions program." University of Michigan President Mary Sue Colemam responded.

	17-08-2003 03:13									#15
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bush is a what? Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc "Critical mass" is little more than a mushy code word they used.

The dissent jumped on this word, arguing that "critical mass" is just another word for "quota."

The majority opinion noted that the points given to minorities did not very from year-to-year but held stable, a practice approved of in Bakke.

I think if there'd have been evidence the law school tinkered each year with the amount of points given to minority studies in order to keep a certain "critical mass" (say 15%), the Court would have found it to be the functional equivalent of a quota and would have canned it.

	17-08-2003 03:13									#16
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Pronunciation: 'bush
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English; akin to Old High German busc forest
Date: 14th century
1 a : SHRUB what gets peed upon regular by a bunchy o' classless b1tches.

	17-08-2003 03:23									#17
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st_swithin:

	17-08-2003 03:29									#18
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Why, thank you my good Man.

	17-08-2003 03:32									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Why don't you quote for us the relevant passages of the official U of Mich policy that you seem to think establishes a quota for admission of minorities?

Personally I'd like to see how one can explain the concept of "critical mass" as it was used at the U of M and not be talking about quotas. I'm fully willing to admit that I maybe jumping the gun but it just smells that way to me.

But if you absolutely must have a piece of a SCOTUS opinion that deals with my problems with the U of M Law School program: here

	17-08-2003 03:40									#20
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You know, Stefanie Maas and Stephanie Maas - the twins, remember?

	17-08-2003 03:59									#21
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Boris -

quote: Oh bullshit. Who here has attacked anyone over not approving of quotas? News flash: most people, even blacks, don't approve of quotas. Show me some AA programs that rely on quotas. Oh, you can't, since quotas are illegal!

Quotas are illegal? Can you show us the law that forbids employers to hire based on quotas? Furthermore, because AA and it's proponents don't want to defend quotas, they say quotas aren't required by law. Sure, you won't find the word "quota" in AA legislation but the effect of AA is no different for employers who fear discrimination lawsuits. The most effective (and not always effective) way to defend themselves from lawsuits is to hire people based on quotas, then if someone charges hiring discrimination, the employer can show they already have a diversified (quotas) workforce and therefore cannot be guilty of discrimination.

A Chicago company that makes lamps was accused of discrimination after a black woman was not hired. The company had ~25 employees with ~22 being hispanic, 1 black, and 2 whites. The company had to pay her the salary she would have gotten if she had been hired, then pay for ads asking others who had unsuccessfully applied for jobs in the past and settle with them. Then there was a fine on top of that - no trial, no jury, just bureaucrats deciding the fate of the company.

	18-08-2003 01:12									#22
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With such limited information however, it is entirely possible that she was actively discriminated against though. I've heard so much stuff on AA completely twisted over the years I'd never accept anecdotal evidence on the issue... except my own

	18-08-2003 01:17									#23
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You went to UCLA too, huh?

	18-08-2003 01:24									#24
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quote: Hasnt every President mentioned god or quoted from the bible in the past?

Not as a rationale regarding a potential legal issue like gay marriage. If the reason for his legal stance is because his Bible says it's wrong, that's a pretty weak foundation.

	21-08-2003 12:50									#25
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Bush is a self-inflating weenie, not unlike a Ballpark frank.

	21-08-2003 14:11									#26
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quote: With such limited information however, it is entirely possible that she was actively discriminated against though.

With virtually the entire workforce being hispanic in a mostly hispanic area, I doubt it was racial. Either the business wasn't hiring at the time or her qualifications weren't up to snuff in the opinion of the employer.

	21-08-2003 14:16									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Elok I don't know about homophobic, but certainly he's not very religious. What most people mistake for his religion is in fact an appeal to the alienated protestant honky culture that sprang up after the civil rights movement made it admirable to be a victim of society. The beliefs of said group aren't really connected or relevant to the Christian faith, and don't really count as a philosophy because they reflect an obsession with an idealized golden age that never really existed. All persecuted victim groups are that way if you ask me, but that's another story. The point is that his remarks were chosen to cater to the general insecurities of people who subscribe to an irrational worldview very loosely based on religion in the same sense that science fiction is based on science. This has been a ramen dragon rant.

Good rant!

	21-08-2003 14:18									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov For DD: http://www.inmotionmagazine.com/idaa/rebush.html "We do not have, and have never had, quotas or numerical targets in either the Undergraduate or Law School admissions program." University of Michigan President Mary Sue Colemam responded.

Oh wait, I've got an even better one by Von Ribbentrop.

	21-08-2003 19:14									#29
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The University of Michigan admissions office does not say "We need 750 black people in this year". They don't have a number on a wall that they need to meet.

Canidates accumulate points based on what they have done. A good school gets you more points. Test scores get you points, but not so many as to make or break your entrance. Voulnteer activity gets you points. Getting into sports at the U of M gets you a LOT of points. Being a minority gets you some points too, but not more than sports, iirc.

The undeniable fact is that rich white kids, for the most cases, have a better chance of getting into law school. Racisim and "the Gap" is still very much present in our society, and passing laws to hide that won't help anyone. The problem has to be exposed and destroyed instead of being swept under the rug and equalizing education at any level is part of the solution.

From the Harpers Index thread:
Change since last year in federal spending to implement the No Child Left Behind Act: -$1,200,000,000
It sure looks like this administration is trying to help .

	21-08-2003 19:27									#30
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That's because "rich white kids" are often MORE CAPABLE than "poor black kids". They may not have been born with a higher innate intelligence, but they have often recieved a better education and had a greater encouragement to learn! The solution MUST BE to work on helping people with a lower socioeconomic status from a young age, rather than just awarding certain races "points" to help them get into college. By that time, they actually are dumber!