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Djugashvili
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by day, Cher impersonator by night
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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At the suggestion of Mao, I have decided to continue my thread on this super-scenario I thought of here, at the Scenario League. If you have any ideas pertaining to this scen, please, POST THEM! If you want to see some previous ideas, or find out what this scen is all about, then check out the 'I Need Some Ideas...' thread on the Civ2 Creation Forum.
Now, later today, I will make a decision as to whether or not I should make it with ToT and multiple maps, or the regular FW. Any ideas on this, or anything else???
Thank you.
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"When You Kill One, It Is A Tragedy. When You Kill 10 Million, It Is A Statistic"
-Comrade Stalin
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Mao
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Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
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I say FW, but I'm biased...
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Hendrik the Great
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Good old Germany!
Oct 1999
time: 06:13
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I think you should use whatever you believe you can handle best. It's no use what so ever if you make it with something you have not mastered fully yet.
Better a really good scenario for FW that keeps one in front of the screen for hours than an at best average scenario for ToT.
But it is your call. Use what suits you better.
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Djugashvili
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by day, Cher impersonator by night
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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Okay, I just now got back from the mall with ToT in hand. I'm gonna load it up, check it out, read a little on the ToT forum, and my final decision will be made soon.
I'm still listening...
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NickC
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First off, ToT doesn't have an events editor. Second, I really think FW is better. Your call.
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Nick Crown (Greek.)
Yasou!
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Djugashvili
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by day, Cher impersonator by night
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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Well, after reviewing my options, I think I'm going to have to go with FW. Editing the ToT files looks pretty complicated, and with the time I spend trying to figure all that out, I could be designing this scenario. I'm pretty sure I could make it (with help from you guys, of course) work with just FW.
So that's my final answer. Fantastic Worlds. All ideas, opinions, suggestions regarding the Rise and Fall of the Soviet Union should be made with me using FW in mind.
I really wanted to use those different maps, but oh well...
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Cam
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Australia
Jan 1970
time: 14:43
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Frankly I think you can do a great scenario in either case. With some 'mega' ideas in mind, there are some things that ToT will lend itself to better - the 'flag and mask' set up does a lot for any 'quest' style game (for instance, if cities X, Y, and Z were taken then text "..." and "take technology", yadda yadda) - taking the Jules Verne approach one step beyond, while things such as the collapsable tech' tree branches could be used for aspects such as the winding up of the Cold War or the KGB.
But this is all 'after the horse has bolted' kind of stuff, and you need only turn to some of the more complex scenarios produced in '99 with FW to see what can be done if you really put your thinking cap on.
Perhaps when the converter is fixed, you can get the best of both worlds? Start with FW, and whack in ToT modifications later?
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Djugashvili
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by day, Cher impersonator by night
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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You see, that's the problem. I have no idea what Cam was talking about...
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NickC
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Cam, that is what I'm doing with Teramore, FW (actually MGE) at first, then ToT later. It is a good plan.
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Nick Crown (Greek.)
Yasou!
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Djugashvili
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by day, Cher impersonator by night
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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Then maybe I'll do that...
Thanks, guys.
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Djugashvili
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by day, Cher impersonator by night
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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So today I've just started making TRAFOTSU in earnst. I've got a map, I've divided the scen up into four parts, and I've designated 7 civs (eight if you count barbs):
-Soviets
-North Americans
-Chinese
-East Europe
-West Europe
-Unstable Countries (or something like that)
-Neutral (stable countries)
-Barbarians (Whites for 'Revolution' part, Independant States for last part)
I'm now working on the first part, Revolution, which starts in october 1917 and ends with Lenin's death in January 1924. I figure the soviets could start with one city, Petrograd, and work from there to conquer lands from the whites, but I'm not sure if this would be accurate. Any comments? Questions? Suggestions? Post them.
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NickC
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Djugashvili, so far, you have been very active in the Civ2 community. Your scenario sounds great.
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Nick Crown (Greek.)
Yasou!
NOTE: The people in the Apolyton forums are all extremely annoying, especially Mr.Te...*ahem!*
SERENITY NOW!
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Hendrik the Great
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Good old Germany!
Oct 1999
time: 06:13
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What the hell means TRAFOTSU???
So it will begin with the October Revolution of the 24th 10.(6.11.)-25th 10.(7.11.) 1917?
You know that at this time WW1 was still going on, right? So the Reds would have to make peace with the German Reich.
Will you include the troops of the Generals
Krasnov and Denikin in the south who fought against the soviets and the Whitekosaks and Chechoslovaks in the East?
If you want I can name you the important generals and the intervention forces from the west...
The Reds would have to conquer quite a lot. To be modest...
Make sure to give the player enough timne.
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Djugashvili
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by day, Cher impersonator by night
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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Hendrik, you sure seem to know your world war one history. Yeah, I realize that was going on at the time, and I'm mulling over how to simulate a possible treaty of Brest-Litovsk if the player so chooses. I don't really want a strategic WW1 simulation, but if you could name those generals and their operations, that might help some ideas take place. Also, I plan on doing 1-2 month turn intervals. 1 month would be too long, but would 2 months a turn be enough time? I think so. Thanks you for your particpation.
btw, TRAFOTSU is an abbreviated version of this thread's name.
[This message has been edited by Djugashvili (edited December 28, 1999).]
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Djugashvili
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by day, Cher impersonator by night
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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hmmm...
no new posts in a while.
well, here's one:
Hendrik: I think I'll take your route and do the one turn=one month thing. It's not really as much to conquer as you think, because I'm using a great map I found of the Northern Hemisphere. (I found I can't make very good maps)It's still a lot though, and you start with pretty much one city. The only problem I have with this is that this scen spans about 87 years, and whats 87x12 again? It's really gonna drag out...
Any ideas about this?
Anybody: You know that little box on a city that shows it's size (i.e. 12, 4, etc...)? Well, I just went to the cities file to change the civ colors, and that little box went all the way to the upper left hand corner.  . I made sure the correct dots were aligned on the green border and everything; they're just kinda stuck that way. But I KNOW this can be fixed, or is my computer just screwed up?? Please help...
Anyway: I'm making pretty good progress on this project. I'll be needing some art soon, and I don't really want to steal all the art, and I'm pretty sucky, so if anybody has any interest, please POST!! Right now I'm working on the Revolution part, and it's kinda neat trying to put all this together. But it's coming along, and I think it's going to be great. Whaddaya think? 
-Djugashvili
[This message has been edited by Djugashvili (edited December 31, 1999).]
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Hendrik the Great
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Good old Germany!
Oct 1999
time: 06:13
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About the city size indicater:
To be honest I'm puzzled. Are you absolutely sure you changed the right dots? I mean there are four. 2 blue ones and two light blue ones.
If that does not help, check the placement of those dots with the other city graphics above or below the one you changed. Sounds funny but something like that happened to my a while ago in my first scenario.
Well, for the first part 84 turns will be good. In later parts why not change the turn indictment to something else? Maybe 2 month or more if neccessay?
I have never made units or any graphics for that time period. When I tried I noticed quite quikly that I'm really not good at drawing vehikels of any kind. Perhaps ships but not more. Furthermore, I have no picture sources for that time at all. Allthough I could search the net for some...
perhaps it is best you ask some of the experts in that question.
And a happy new year to you! Have fun!
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Djugashvili
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by day, Cher impersonator by night
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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Thanks for the insight, Hendrik. But how do I change the turn/year increment midway through the scenario?? If there's a way, I've yet to hear it. And I'll try the thing with the dots again; it's pretty confusing.
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYBODY!!!!
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Hendrik the Great
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Good old Germany!
Oct 1999
time: 06:13
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I thought you wanted to make 3 or 4 different scenarios which basicly belong together, sorry if I misunderstood.
If you make let's say for arguements sake 3 scn files which take of where the previous is supposed to end you can simply have different turn indictments for all 3.
All of these 3 would be in the same scn-folder.
Also, however it would require the player to cheat, you could change it while playing with the cheat menue. But I don't like that idea.
As said I misunderstood what you meant with several parts in the first place.
However, it would be really nice to find a way for this...
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Djugashvili
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by day, Cher impersonator by night
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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Hmm, I may have to make several different scenarios after all...
It's a good thing I'm going over this now because I've pretty much worked only on the first part so far...
But does ANYBODY know how to curtail this problem?? Special mention in the readme if you give a solution!
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Captain Nemo
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Red Front
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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There is a way that is a little "twisted"... Forget about year and months etc... Call the generic time unit a turn. Then convert the turns into dates... turn 1= October 1917, turn 2= November 1917 etc... add text to your events file that "announces" the date at the beginning of each turn. Since I assume you are making multiple events substitutions using up event space is irrelevant... Once you get to the date in the scenario when you want to go to 2 months turns, just change the events text accordingly and even if you want to go to 6 months turns or one year turns later in the scenario, there is nothing to it. Just make sure you adjust the time scale factors in the corresponding rules.txt files accordingly so you don't end up with factories that take 6 months to build in 1917 and 6 years to build by 1930...
The only negative is that the screen will show turns and not dates and that you will have to wait till the next "announcement" to know what month/year it is.
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Captain Nemo
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Red Front
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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I don't remember exactly how but I got it to work in Alex's Spartacus... (Yes, I worked on that too) It works in weeks and increments by 1 each turn. You could try to download it and see how I did it.
Si, es bueno!
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Djugashvili
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by day, Cher impersonator by night
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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Hey, I got it to work! Thanks for the great idea, Nemo. The readme for Spartacus kinda confused me though. But the 1turn=1year thing is working for me and I don't really have to worry about it no more. Now what do to do next...
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Well, what I suggest is to write out as much as you can in advance. Start with the units you want to use and then figure out the tech tree.
That's just what I think though....
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Djugashvili
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by day, Cher impersonator by night
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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Okay, so I've made a units list and layed down a few russian cities. Now I'm at a dilemma. I planned for this game to start in oct1917, and allow the player to possibly make peace with the germans. Although I would prefer to have it this way, I'm really leaning towards having the scen begin after the Brest-Litovsk treaty was signed and right at the beginning of the civil war. All the ways I've thought of to simulate such a treaty have all been too artificial, too complicated, or just wouldn't work.
So now that I'm lost, I'll turn to here: How could I simulate a Brest-Litovsk-style treaty? Or do you think it would be okay to start in March1918 after the actual treaty was signed and the Germans occupy a quarter of russia? That would allow the human player to concentrate more on the civil war, as Lenin planned to do when he made peace w/ germany. Please help!
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Sometimes I think that's all you care about MJ!
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Apolyton Time is 00:13. |
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28-12-1999 00:41
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