21-08-2003 14:00									#1
	Turn 108 410 BC Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

edited by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- Republic
- Researching Engineering (34) 1 scientist.
- 158 gold. +31 gpt
- Slider at 9/0/1 tax/sci/lux


Urgent questions & tasks
Final plans for PoA to plunge into the ocean West of Equilibrium. Warrior WB will join her after Togas the NM relives him in EQ.


Unit Movement & Actions:

All units in Army Group A/B (AGA/B) to remain (fortified) on the road tile 8 of Cuido where they can maintain the maximum mobility to deal with a GCA threat.

AGA/B contains: 3 vet Horseman, 9 vet Swordsmen, 1 vet NM, 1 elite Warrior, 1 regular Warrior (15 units)

G01 I. PoA moves 8-8-9.
G02 II. Expedition [Flash, Jagjef] moves 3-6-6 then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with the Swordsmen.

S05 V. Hack attacks barb camp at 7.

N01 I. MerZenary moves 3; it will be stationed on the hill 6 of BFC.
N04 IV. Togas moves 3; he will be moved to Equilibrium to guard the city and a possible future silk colony.
N05 V. Enamel moves 7 back towards Tripoli.
N07 VII. Moves towards AGA.

W02 II. BigFree stays where he is (resumes viewing cycle next turn).
W03 III. Alva forts on iron.
W07 VII. WhiteBandit moves 4 towards the PoA launching point.
W12 XII. WWNN moves 6 if the GCA Horse isn't in the way, 3 if it is.

All other units to remain as they are.

Economy:
Is it this turn that we need to change Ming's built to direct the Chop Results to Hisp?
To be added to by MoI

WF:
Poly start 5-12-17-18-19
Ming start 2-3-9-10-15
Banana start 1-2-6-8-20
Incensity start 5-6-7-14
Tripoli start 17-19-20
Equil start Sci
Alcohol start 1
Hispanica start 1-3-9
Possum start 14
Karina start 3-9
Lux start 1-2
Big Bend start 8-10
BFC start 6-8
HoD start 10-11



Workers:
EVC & Dejon move 9-9 and help MrWIA finish Mining the Hill (1) at Ming 7 (WF #7).
Monkee & CalcII are finished clearing Big Bend 1 (WF #1) and are Frozen. Will Road next turn.

To be added by MoI


Diplomacy:
GCA: NAP in effect (to Turn 130).
CFC: NAP expired. New NAP proposed by CFC thru turn 117


Comment, please, many "plans" are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.

---
Note: keypad directions used for all except WF orders.

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results

Last edited by Trip on 22-08-2003 at 06:11

	22-08-2003 01:27									#2
	Worker Plans for the next worker "Cycle" Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

After the workers are finishing their Current Worker taskings, Here is what I plan for them to go to next:

Monkee & CalcII - currently Clearing & Roading Big Bend 1 (WF #1) - move 9 to Banana WF #15 to Clear & Road. Then to move across the river (6) to Tripoli 7 (WF #8) to Clear and Road. 19 Turns to complete these taskings.

Squid & Horse - currently Clearing & Roading Banana 6 (WF #3) -
move 2 to Tripoli 8 (WF #1) and Mine. Then to move 2-1 to Tripoli 1 (WF #6) to Clear & Road. 13 turns to Complete these taskings.

Dan & Gits - Currently Done Clearing & Roading Big Bend 7 (WF #8) - move 6-3 to Big Bend 6 (WF #3) to Clear & Road. Then move 1 to Big Bend 3 (WF #4) to Clear & Road. 16 turns to Complete these taskings.

Mark & Otto - Currently Clearing & Roading Lux 3 (WF #4) - move 9 to Lux 6 (WF #3) to Clear and Road. Then move to one of the 3 locations: Ming WF #6 (shared by Lux); Ming WF #16 (shared by HoD, Lux and Karina); Karina WF #7 (shared by Lux and Possum) to Clear and Road. 20 turns to Complete these taskings.

EVC & Dejon - Currently Done Clearing & Roading HoD 6 (WF #3) - move 9-9 to join MrWIA at Ming 7 (WF #8) to finish mining that hill. Then All 3 move 1-1 to 1 turn Mine HoD 6 (WF #3). Then they move 2 to the hill between HoD and Karina to Road and Mine (shared by Possum, HoD & Karina). This tile will allow quicker movement from the north to the front. Then all will move to 1 turn Mine the 5 grassland tiles between Lux and Banana. 11 turns to Complete these taskings.

Spink - Currently Roading Hispanica 9 (WF #2) - move 6-6 to join and help Rush finish Mining Poly 7 (WF #8). Then they both move to Hisp 9 (WF #2) and 1 turn Irrigate. Then they move 2 to Hisp 3 (WF #4) to join with Panag {the road will have been completed at this time but Panag will be frozen} to Irrigate that tile. Then all 3 will move 8-8-9-8 to BFC WF #20 to Road and Mine the Gold. Then, those 3 workers either go to other tasking (mining Hisp Hills??) or are sent to join cities for Pop growth. 10 turns to Complete these taskings.

New Workers from Karina and Alcohol - both move to the Gold hill at Alcohol 4 (WF #6) to Mine. THen they move 8 to the Hill at Possum 3 (WF #4) to mine. Then they move 7-4 to Possum 4 (WF #7) to Mine. Afterwards, they will head to the Silks (with the slave) to connect and colinize it. 14 turns to Complete these taskings and arriving in Equilibrium.

New worker from Big Bend - move to Tripoli 3 (WF #4) and road - Then maybe start on mining or will be added to Tripoli. Time depends on build date.

Other workers might be built in a little while, but likely not before another 10 turns.

Some of these tasking could be changed, but the timing will try to stay the same.

MoI E_T

	22-08-2003 01:37									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

We currently have 14 Native Workers and 1 slave. With the addition of several cities, the number of workers to cities ratio has gone down a little too much. Not counting the Slave, we are currently at a 1 to 1 ratio, we should be running atleast 1.5 to 1 ratio (21 Native workers to our CURRENT number of cities) to our present number of cities. We also have plans to add a few workers to some of our cities, to help increase their pop faster, and replacing them from the outlying cities (due to their size limits and waste). But these still take time to produce and we will be at a limit of workers for a while. We will try to speed the process of worker farming, but it won't be before we get close to the end of the GA before we have the numbers that I would like to have).

But I'm looking at several things, too

MoI E_T

	22-08-2003 06:10									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

All units in Army Group A/B (AGA/B) to remain (fortified) on the road tile 8 of Cuido where they can maintain the maximum mobility to deal with a GCA threat.

AGA/B contains: 3 vet Horseman, 9 vet Swordsmen, 1 vet NM, 1 elite Warrior, 1 regular Warrior (15 units)

G01 I. PoA moves 8-8-9.
G02 II. Expedition [Flash, Jagjef] moves 3-6-6 then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with the Swordsmen.

S05 V. Hack attacks barb camp at 7.

N01 I. MerZenary moves 3; it will be stationed on the hill 6 of BFC.
N04 IV. Togas moves 3; he will be moved to Equilibrium to guard the city and a possible future silk colony.
N05 V. Enamel moves 7 back towards Tripoli.
N07 VII. Moves towards AGA.

W02 II. BigFree stays where he is (resumes viewing cycle next turn).
W03 III. Alva forts on iron.
W07 VII. WhiteBandit moves 4 towards the PoA launching point.
W12 XII. WWNN moves 6 if the GCA Horse isn't in the way, 3 if it is.

All other units to remain as they are.

	22-08-2003 06:14									#5
	Re: Worker Plans for the next worker "Cycle" Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by E_T Dan & Gits - Currently Done Clearing & Roading Big Bend 7 (WF #8) - move 6-3 to Big Bend 6 (WF #3) to Clear & Road. Then move 1 to Big Bend 3 (WF #4) to Clear & Road. 16 turns to Complete these taskings.

As I mentioned in the chatroom, both NYE and I thought that sending these two to clear Tripoli WF7, along with using Squid and Horse (Banana WF3) to mine tiles (hill and otherwise) after finishing their current clear/roading would be best.

	22-08-2003 10:35									#6
	Re: Re: Worker Plans for the next worker "Cycle" Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Trip As I mentioned in the chatroom, both NYE and I thought that sending these two to clear Tripoli WF7, along with using Squid and Horse (Banana WF3) to mine tiles (hill and otherwise) after finishing their current clear/roading would be best.

I think the way ET has it will be fine; Banana will not be without an improved tile to work. Banana WF#3 will be clear in 3 turns and roaded in 4. There's also another unworked inproved tile in Banana's range at WF#18, I believe.

	22-08-2003 10:56									#7
	Remove this text

What about Tripoli? What about exposed, bonus grass?

It is not possible to program all this 5 or 10 turns in advance, and keep to it.

We must adjust and adapt as things develop. Bonus grass will be some of those developments.

I also think that clearing for Tripoli should be a priority. Am I wrong?

	22-08-2003 11:55									#8
	Remove this text

Tripoli will work the Iron tile once it grows to help finish the CourtHouse. That tile provides 4 shields and bumps production from 3 spt (current) to 6 spt clear.

So I don't think another tile for Tripoli should be a priority for now.

	22-08-2003 12:26									#9
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Adding workers to cities does not seem like a good idea at the time. We need more workers!

	22-08-2003 15:27									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

It's only a good idea during our GA; when we get an extar shield and an extra commerce for every tile that already produces one of those. We can easy pump those workers back out, if needed, after our GA has ended.

The measure of whether or not we need more workers is whether or not our cities have enough improved tiles to work or not. It's close right now, but with a new set of worker's coming on this next turn, we are turning the corner on having the right amount or even just a bit over, IMO. Remeber, we have to pay upkeep for each one of these guys now. If they are not being productive, then they are being wasteful.

	22-08-2003 17:33									#11
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We need more SLAVES! Task balancing is easier if your crew mix is about even with slaves to workers. We actually have an adequate workforce since our developed tile count is more or less neutral.

Since worker capture is the most effecient method of SLAVE production, this should be a significant goal of our upcoming war.

	22-08-2003 20:21									#12
	Remove this text

Hmmm... I'm thinking if we get a choice between pushing forward towards an opposing city, or diverting even one soldier to capturing a worker...

We accomplish what we set out to do: smash GCA's cities.

Workers can be built. Slaves can be captured in towns or not at all, but chances to wipe out opponents should never be diverted from, even for a moment.

	23-08-2003 05:23									#13
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I don't know if anyone has noticed this but between turn 106 and 107 Firaxis score staid the same (197-197) and Grenouilles went down 1 (171-170).

	23-08-2003 05:27									#14
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Yes, it was noticed. Both teams are at serious war. Gren's own forum reported that they have likely 2-3 turns left in the game before they are wiped out.

Firaxis seems to be heading the same way. Maybe GWT and CGN sandwhiched those two teams between them. I'll also bet that at least on of those two teams, that are losing, did not have access to Iron...

	23-08-2003 06:46									#15
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Turn is here. Just a few things of note.

Elucidium's borders expanded. Which means they pop-rushed a Temple 5 turns ago. We'll need a Settler to make a camp to bypass their cultural border and keep our offensive moving.

We are now 2nd in MFG. This means either CGN or GWT is now in Anarchy... we're not going to be the #1 GNP for much longer.

No teams yet eliminated, but Firaxis score has remained the same for the past 3 turns and Grenouille's has gone down 1 point the last two turns. CFC has passed Grenouille in score, and in a couple turns we'll have passed Firaxis for the #4 spot in score.

	23-08-2003 08:46									#16
	Increase the size of your Attachments

We have a problem.

The forest at Hispanica 3 is chopped next turn. It could go to Hisp or Mingapulco. We need to set Ming to a palace to direct the chop to Hispanica. The problem is, Ming is due to complete a unit. So...

We either delay a merc by 1 turn and waste 10 shields, or change Ming to a palace, then to an mi and waste no shields.

Wanting to hear some opinions.

	23-08-2003 11:14									#17
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Problem solved by planning on an MI from Ming.

Unit Movement and Actions:
S05 'Hack' attacks Parthian camp at 7. Wins, no damage. +25 gold

N01 'MerZenary' moves 3
N04 'Togas' moves 1
N05 'Enamel' moves 7
N08 Named 'roadcage' moves 1 1 1

W03 'Alva' moves 9 and fortifies. Tripoli is bait to draw barbs sooner than they may normally show themselves
W12 'Warrior With No Name' moves 6
W07 'WhiteBandit' moves 4

G01 'AS Princess of Apolyton' moves 8-8-9
G02 'AS Expedition' [Flash, Jagjef] moves 6 2 2. Spots/spotted by GCA horseman 2 2 2 2 3 of Cha Ching. Fortify all

All other units remain as they are.


Economy:
Apolyton building merc (1)
Mingapulco changed to palace due to chop being completed. Will change to an MI next turn. MI (2)
Banantopia building barracks (4)
Incensity building mi (4)
Tripoli building court house (17)
Equilibrium building walls (18)
Cuido de Alcohol finished worker. Starts another (10) Subject to discussion
Hispanica building temple (9)
Possumopolis building cat (9)
Karina building worker (1)
LuxInvicta building catapult (10)
Big Bend building worker (4)
BigFurryCity building to temple (7)
Heart of Darkness building catapult (4)

Work Force:
Apolyton NC
Mingapulco NC
Banantopia NC
Incensity NC
Tripoli NC
Equilibrium scientist
Cuido de Alcohol NC
Hispanica NC
Possumopolis NC
Karina NC
LuxInvicta NC
Big Bend NC
BigFurryCity NC
Heart of Darkness NC

Workers:
Worker01: 'Dan' moves 3 6
Worker02: 'Monkee' clearing (1) Big bend 8
Worker03: 'panag' chopping (2) Hisp 3
Worker04: 'EVC' moves 9 9 and mines (1) Mingapulco 7
Worker05: 'Dejon' moves 9 9 and mines (1) Mingapulco 7
Worker06: 'MrWIA'mining (1) Mingapulco 7
Worker07: 'Rush' mining (3) Apolyton 7
Worker08: 'Yo' roading (2) Cuido de Alocohol 2
Worker09: 'Calc II' clearing (1) Big bend 8
Worker10: 'Spink' irrigating (1) Hispanica 9
Worker11: 'Horse' clearing (3) Bananatopia 3
Worker12: 'Squid' clearing (3) Bananatopia 3
Worker13: 'Otto' clearing (3) Lux 3
Worker14: 'Mark' clearing (3) Lux 3
Worker15: 'Gits' moves 3 6
Worker16s: 'Farb' roading (7) Equilibrium 6
Worker17: 'Yin' produced in Cuido de Alcohol moves 4

Slider: set at 9/0/1 tax/sci/lux. +31gpt. 183 gold.
1 scientist. Engineering in 34

Last edited by notyoueither on 23-08-2003 at 11:19

	23-08-2003 12:31									#19
	Support Apolyton

Is this the part where I say "I told you so Trip."?

Why would the chop go to Ming and not Hispanica?

	23-08-2003 12:56									#20
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by BigFree Is this the part where I say "I told you so Trip."?

Or rather I told you so. I knew it would either be this turn or not at all... and it was this turn. Looks like we'll need a Settler.

quote: Why would the chop go to Ming and not Hispanica?

NYE said that the chop would usually go to Hispanica, but it might go to Ming unless we change to a wonder or Palace.

	23-08-2003 19:29									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Elucidium's borders expanded. Which means they pop-rushed a Temple 5 turns ago.

Elucidium??? Are we in the same game?


What is the formula for which city the chop goes to, anyway?

	23-08-2003 23:10									#22
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster Elucidium??? Are we in the same game?

Elucidium and Zarigueya, to be exact.

	24-08-2003 00:59									#23
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster What is the formula for which city the chop goes to, anyway?

The problem is that I am unaware of the exact formula. I have seen chops go from adjacent city to city 2 tiles distant. I am not sure why.

If anyone can come forward with better information, I would appreciate it.

	24-08-2003 08:11									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Trip We are now 2nd in MFG. This means either CGN or GWT is now in Anarchy... we're not going to be the #1 GNP for much longer. No teams yet eliminated, but Firaxis score has remained the same for the past 3 turns and Grenouille's has gone down 1 point the last two turns. CFC has passed Grenouille in score, and in a couple turns we'll have passed Firaxis for the #4 spot in score.

A few trival observations to add on :

1. There is a new city, Partemunde of Webringen in the Top 5 City list, since Turn 107. Partemunde, is of course, the city which built the Pyramids, and replaced it's own capital Webringen in the top 5 listing.

2. Apolyton is still unable to get back to the Top 5 City list, after it went into Anarchy & switched to Republic. It is not all bad actually, considering that we wil be on the Radar screen more often if we are consistently the top city. That honor now goes to GCA (Catchopolis, Algalord).
Which brought me to another question, if Apolyton dropped out of the top 5 when it went into Anarchy, wouldn't Partemunde and Arhus drop out too if either Webringen/CGN goes into Anarchy ? (Note : we of course have lower culture than them, i believe)

3. Trip, re : your comment on #2 on Mfg, can we change some of the tiles to test how close we are with #3 ? Sometimes, Mfg goes up & down a few pts, probably due to tile placement. If #3 are miles away, and #8 is incredibly low, then we can be very sure. Thanks.

4. CDG is not Religious. Webringen is. So, if it's confirmed one of the civilisation has changed govt, we can confirm whether it's CDG and Webringen by how many turns it's in Anarchy.

5. Our approval rating has gone up from #2 to #1, or 73%. Do we need to get everybody so happy ? This could impact our GPT.

6. Our population has now exceed 1, 000, 000. Let's celebrate !

7. Our average score increases by +4 this turn after many turns (actually 6 to be exact) of +3. That means we have move from improving our score in the range between +2 and +3 to +3 and +4.

8. BFM, this Literature rating is so funny. Last week, we stay at 3%, our position dropped to #5. This week, we are back at #4, we are still at 3%. The fluctation happens a few times already, maybe we cannot rely too much on this.

I'll stop now. Too much trival facts will probably bore you.

	24-08-2003 08:14									#25
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I consider all of these trivial facts useful and interesting information.

	24-08-2003 11:48									#26
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Rush: I would bet that both GWT and CGN have a lot more culture than us. They no doubt have Libraries and probably Temples in both of the cities in the list, in addition to the Pyramids for Parthemuende and Arhus being size 8 (largest in the world, most likely). Apolyton, on the other hand, was only size 5 with no cultural improvements besides the initial Palace when it fell during Anarchy. It was only a matter of time before we dropped out of the list permanently even without the Anarchy.

Oh, and I checked how far we're #2 in MFG before I first made that post... I stopped once I dropped about 15 from us.

	24-08-2003 16:10									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Trip [...] Arhus being size 8 (largest in the world, most likely).

Don't bet on it... if I had a super grown city, I would chose one that doesn't come close in culture. GS did it before, we had a city at size 12 many turns before anyone knew about it (IIRC we pumped it around turn 70), and it still doesn't show in the F11 of the PTWDG, even after completing 2 wonders. When you're producing such a super city early, it becomes a real goal to hide it... and as it can be very helpful for wonder prebuilding when going to the middle ages, any team which is only slightly isolated could come with that idea.

DeepO

	24-08-2003 17:16									#28
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quote: Originally posted by rush 3. Trip, re : your comment on #2 on Mfg, can we change some of the tiles to test how close we are with #3 ?

Yes, we should keep up the research of the other civs in the areas of: GNP, MFG and Productivity. I'll see if I have time to do this. See also the Area X thread with results from Turn 106.

quote: Originally posted by rush 4. CDG is not Religious. Webringen is. So, if it's confirmed one of the civilisation has changed govt, we can confirm whether it's CDG and Webringen by how many turns it's in Anarchy.

Clever. On Turn 106, we suspected that one civ was in Anarchy. We should check if they still are.

quote: Originally posted by rush 5. Our approval rating has gone up from #2 to #1, or 73%. Do we need to get everybody so happy ? This could impact our GPT.

I don't think I quite follow you here. I think the MoI is squeezing out every gold and beaker he can. The Approval Rating is just a reflection of the % of Happy People.

quote: Originally posted by rush 8. BFM, this Literature rating is so funny. Last week, we stay at 3%, our position dropped to #5. This week, we are back at #4, we are still at 3%. The fluctation happens a few times already, maybe we cannot rely too much on this.

Indeed, very strange. Maybe the formula isn't correct, after all. Or the others have been building and demolishing Libraries...

quote: Originally posted by rush Too much trival facts will probably bore you.

Well - it is good information! You now are officially hired in the Area X department!

	24-08-2003 18:11									#29
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On point 5, it's a general statement. In my own Civ III Vanilla game, when my happiness went to #1, it usually meant I set my Luxury % too high, and I can bring it down & get more GPT.

	24-08-2003 18:23									#30
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Trip Oh, and I checked how far we're #2 in MFG before I first made that post... I stopped once I dropped about 15 from us.

thanks for pointing this out. I wasn't sure from your post whether you have done the checking. My appologies. When a civilisation goes into Anarchy, the Mfg and Productivity indicator drop significantly, so we can be quite sure that either Webringen/CGN have gone into Anarchy.

Since Webringen is Religious and CGN is not, we can tell by next turn whether Webringen or CGN has moved to Republic.