22-08-2003 07:38									#91
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat The truth is that a Court is a highly appropriate place for the 10 Commandments. Maybe if more people learned the 10 Commandments, this country might be a better place.

Yeah, because it's ignorance of the Ten Commandments that creates moral decay.

Courts aren't an appropriate place for them, since they are a religious text. And since U.S. law isn't founded on the Ten Commandments, despite what religious fundamentalists want to believe, I fail to see why they are so appropriate.

Gee, here's an idea...if we're going to have monuments in our court buildings towards great legal ideas, how about we just make monuments of the Constitution and have the laws of the U.S. posted in courts?

	22-08-2003 07:38									#92
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too many G&T's

	22-08-2003 07:38									#93
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat The truth is that a Court is a highly appropriate place for the 10 Commandments. Maybe if more people learned the 10 Commandments, this country might be a better place.

You're hopeless.

	22-08-2003 07:40									#94
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat The truth is that a Court is a highly appropriate place for the 10 Commandments. Maybe if more people learned the 10 Commandments, this country might be a better place.

Well, better not have any more American flags, then, because according to the Jehovah's Witnesses, they are graven images. They're Christians, too, aren't they?

I guess we also need to tell them damned Buddhists and Hindus who's really in charge around here.

Not to mention us "papists" who aren't Christian, according to good Christians like Mr. Jack Chick.

	22-08-2003 07:40									#95
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat The truth is that a Court is a highly appropriate place for the 10 Commandments. Maybe if more people learned the 10 Commandments, this country might be a better place.

Yeah! Except for the pagan, aethist and other who will go to hell for not acknowledging God as the only true God! We burn them...

Please.

This is a simple open and shut case, or at least Judge Moore made it so. So the truth is that in this country, officer of the court (which is what moore is) can not be allowed to attempt to glorify their own personal religious beliefs on anyone.

	22-08-2003 07:43									#96
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Would tree huggers rather be compared with PETA looneys rather than religious ones then?

I'm a tree hugger. Kinda drawing from the African Bushman, I apologize to the tree for the carnage I intend to inflict on it, and ask it to provide me with good wood for my purposes.

	22-08-2003 07:43									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Gee, here's an idea...if we're going to have monuments in our court buildings towards great legal ideas, how about we just make monuments of the Constitution and have the laws of the U.S. posted in courts?

I think we should have stautes of me.



Looking stern




With a big stick

	22-08-2003 07:43									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Oh, we con't complain when you fundies try to corrupt My country with YOUR bigotry and intolerance in clear violation with the 1st amendment? Oh, BTW, Being called tree hugger is a compliment!

Ah, before this flaming escalates any further, you gentlemen might want to remember that Ming is watching...
As for the original topic, by all means get the bloody rock out of there. Even from an entirely Christian-biased point of view, the faith is too interconnected with the image of patriotism as it is. Constitutionally it's pretty nonsensical too.

	22-08-2003 07:46									#99
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat The Alabama constitution mentions God, yes. Moore's stated reasons go beyond merely what is contained in the Alabama constitution, and both are irrelevent, as they can not supersede the US Constitution. This is a Federal law issue, and that's where Moore wanted it to go all along.

I think the argument could be made that it is a States' Rights issue.

The 10th Amendment states that "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

I think it would be a perfectly reasonable interpretation of said 10th Amendment that displaying religious documents or monuments is a State matter to decide.

	22-08-2003 07:46									#100
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat I'm a tree hugger. Kinda drawing from the African Bushman, I apologize to the tree for the carnage I intend to inflict on it, and ask it to provide me with good wood for my purposes.

Well the 150-200 foot oak tree in my front garden did look particularly fetching last night amidst the lightning bolts. I'm happy to say that tree and we survived intact.

	22-08-2003 07:49									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You're hopeless.

No, just a Christian, and proud of it!

	22-08-2003 07:51									#102
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat I think the argument could be made that it is a States' Rights issue. The 10th Amendment states that "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." I think it would be a perfectly reasonable interpretation of said 10th Amendment that displaying religious documents or monuments is a State matter to decide.

Well, gee, since the establishment clause is part of the U.S. Constitution, and thus prohibits the states from doing this kind of thing, I'd say this argument is dead in the water.

	22-08-2003 07:52									#103
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat No, just a Christian, and proud of it!

I'm sure you're very proud, but little do you know how much of an embarassment you really are.

Ignorance is bliss, etc...

	22-08-2003 07:55									#104
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat No, just a Christian, and proud of it!

Pride is a sin, son. Even this atheist knows that.

	22-08-2003 07:56									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Yeah, because it's ignorance of the Ten Commandments that creates moral decay.

No. But the 10 Commandments can serve to remind people the difference between right from wrong, that you should love your neighbor, not covet their things, not murder, not steal, not commit adultery etc...

If more people were reminded of these things, life might be a little bit better, don't you think?

	22-08-2003 07:58									#106
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The bottom line is that the 10 Commandments monument does not trample of anyone religious rights. it is simply a memorial. You atheists should learn to just get over it and move on. Stop throwing a fit just because you see the word "God" somewhere.

	22-08-2003 07:59									#107
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat I think it would be a perfectly reasonable interpretation of said 10th Amendment that displaying religious documents or monuments is a State matter to decide.

SCOTUS has already long disposed of that claim, and applied the Establishment Clause to the states via the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

	22-08-2003 08:00									#108
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat No. But the 10 Commandments can serve to remind people the difference between right from wrong, that you should love your neighbor, not covet their things, not murder, not steal, not commit adultery etc... If more people were reminded of these things, life might be a little bit better, don't you think?

I don't think posting such things on courthouses is going to make an iota of difference in how people act.

If you want to remind people of those virtues, fine, but do it without violating the constitution. Religion does not have a monopoly on morality. Our legal code enshrines enough virtues that I don't see why we need to supplement it with religious dogma.

	22-08-2003 08:01									#109
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat The bottom line is that the 10 Commandments monument does not trample of anyone religious rights. it is simply a memorial. You atheists should learn to just get over it and move on. Stop throwing a fit just because you see the word "God" somewhere.

Now I just have to believe you're outrightly lying, since it has been shown time and time again that this is NOT the purpose of the monument, that Moore intended it specifically as a religious icon to evoke his belief in God to the people.

Stop lying, it's a sin as well.

	22-08-2003 08:01									#110
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat You atheists should learn to just get over it and move on. Stop throwing a fit

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it Moore and the religious nutcases backing him throwing the fits?

His superiors and colleagues have all ruled the statue illegal. So you god-fearing sinners should learn to get over it and move on.

	22-08-2003 08:02									#111
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Well the 150-200 foot oak tree in my front garden did look particularly fetching last night amidst the lightning bolts. I'm happy to say that tree and we survived intact.

Especially if it fell in your direction. When I was a kid, we had a 80 foot live oak split in half on us - one half shredded my dad's car a bit and busted the water line to our house in the peak of summer, the other half just fell across the front yard and made a hell of a mess. The bright side is we had lots of firewood, though.

	22-08-2003 08:04									#112
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat No. But the 10 Commandments can serve to remind people the difference between right from wrong, that you should love your neighbor, not covet their things, not murder, not steal, not commit adultery etc... If more people were reminded of these things, life might be a little bit better, don't you think?

Most definitely, but we should remind these folks before their cases come up on appeal to Judge Moore's court, not after.

	22-08-2003 08:07									#113
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Oh, and by the way, Asher, and some other folks as well, we shall keep this on at least a somewhat civil level. That is my commandment.

	22-08-2003 08:09									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it Moore and the religious nutcases backing him throwing the fits?

I am talking about groups like the ACLU who go nuts just because a valedictorian mentions "Jesus" at a High School commencement, or when someone displays a manger scene in front of city hall, or when a judge displays the 10 Commandments in his court room to remind people about right from wrong.

	22-08-2003 08:10									#115
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It's quite civil.

So much for your exempt list.

	22-08-2003 08:11									#116
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Only problem, the highest courts of the land have said that last bit is illegal: yes, silly liberals for demanding that people be stopped form doing what is illegal!

	22-08-2003 08:12									#117
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat I am talking about groups like the ACLU

And I'm talking about people like you.

"Get over it and move on"

There's no room for religious propaganda in the courtroom, deal with that.

You'll have better luck kidnapping children and brainwashing them.

(As a side note, I'll never understand the religious peoples' (sans Buddhists) who feel the need to convert everyone to be like them. )

	22-08-2003 08:13									#118
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH I think we should have stautes of me. Looking stern With a big stick

Are you coming on to Boris?

	22-08-2003 08:13									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Now I just have to believe you're outrightly lying, since it has been shown time and time again that this is NOT the purpose of the monument, that Moore intended it specifically as a religious icon to evoke his belief in God to the people.

Moore was elected by the people of Alabama. He made no secret about his views on the 10 Commandments. If he meant the monument as a religious icon, then his constituents wanted it so. We live in a democracy, doesn't the will of the people count?

	22-08-2003 08:14									#120
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Not the States Rights BS.

about 8 years ago a tornado took out 2 huge Ponderosa Pines in my back yard. I miss those big trees, They made such good shade. Fortunatly I still have a bunch of big white ash for sshade, though.

MtG, that wouldent suprise me, live oaks have a tendency to get rediculously wide! You should come see some of our BIG bur oaks.