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cinch
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Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Jul 2002
time: 22:30
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quote:
:sigh: Iīm not really in the mood for such a discussion. As Elijah said, NC is not imperialistic in the classical sense, it is not about having colonies for cheap labour, resources and stuff |
Cheap labour: Iraqi populace looking for jobs in the new economy.
Resources: Should be obvious.
Hmmm... this neo-conservatism is looking more and more like imperialism by the second...
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The Templar
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People's Republic of the East Village
Oct 2001
time: 00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat
Conservatism believes that individuals are better capable of managing their lives than government. |
Certainly this is the libertarian view (a view to which I am highly sympathetic - even if I am a little antagonistic to libertarians on Ape. I just feel libertarians have a higher standard of intellectual rigor to meet - and that should be taken as a complement.)
It is not the view of religious conservatives however. "Theocons" are more than happy to have the state impose standards of virtuous behavior on citizens.
quote:
Originally posted by Giant_Squid
Conservativism can't be defined as just "trying to keep the status quo" in a political sense because there are seemingly at least as many issues in America at least in which conservatives are the ones pushing for change. Abortion, tax reform, school vouchers, affirmative action, welfare, et cetera - in fact, whenever the current policy was set by liberals, conservatives are usually looking to reform it |
Good point. I was thinking, though, along the lines of traditional values rather than policy however. Often though, the conservative lens of tradition introduces distortions - thereby creating a nostalgia for a past that never happened. E.g. the oft spoken canard that somehow the nation had more consensus and more rigid adherence to "Christian values" prior to the sexual revolution in the '60s. So in this sense, certainly, social conservatives are in many ways seeking to depart from the status quo because the past "golden age" is a fiction.
quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Well, modern conservatism is based on the writings of Burke, as Elok stated. Change should be gradual and not a sudden overthrow of tradition. The sudden overthrow, such as in the French Revolution, causes social chaos and disorder. He believes that tradition is the collected wisdom of history, so should be built upon, rather than totally cast aside. |
Certainly this is not the hallmark of the contemporary conservative. Reagan and W. both shredded the institutional status quo fairly quickly.
But aside from that, Burke only speaks of maximizing a single value - social order. Now granted, social order is important. Nonetheless, social order often conflicts with another value: justice.
Take for instance, the civil rights movement and the sexual revolution. Both made rather radical changes to the social fabric in a short period of time. On the one hand, the flurry of activity in the '60s lead to massive unrest. On the other hand, a more gradual institutionalization of equality would have denied blacks and women their rights - and so would have conserved order at the cost of justice.
Similarly, a pro-life/anti-choice activist will argue against the gradualist approach to ending abortion on the grounds that murder is permitted under the status quo. So a conservative is just as likely to push Burke aside and choose justice over order in many situations.
While Burke advocates for a sort of "procedural conservatism", I don't think a political conservative really has any sympathy for Burke's position - other than its use as a rhetorical device.
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C0ckney
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Big Up The Macedonian Massive
Apr 2000
time: 05:30
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that's an 'interesting'* spectrum there odin.
*denotes complete and utter bollocks
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Apolyton Time is 00:30. |
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24-08-2003 21:02
You know it!! 
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