25-08-2003 04:57									#31
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I just finished looking at Mars an hour ago. Perfect night for stargazing in Ireland. I live in the country too, even better. It was the brightest celestial body in the sky by far.

The only disadvantage is that my knowledge of telescopes is somewhat lacking. Nevertheless, I got Mars in focus eventually. Not what I expected. Without the telescope it had an orange hue about it; with the telescope it was a pale yellow.

I couldn't really make out any features; I had hoped to see the contrast between the colour of the poles and the rest of the planet, but no such luck. Oh well, there's always tomorrow night.

	25-08-2003 04:58									#32
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quote: If you have to ask, you can't afford it...not much change from $4000

Ouch! Where you find room for it?

and yes I can afford it

	25-08-2003 04:59									#33
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Thanks! I'll look for it tonight. looks like a clear night from here.

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	25-08-2003 04:59									#34
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our_man: You need to really concentrate on it to be honest. What mag is your scope?

	25-08-2003 05:12									#35
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quote: Originally posted by elijah MtG: How much is that thing setting you back?

The camera is officially $9,000, but I'm guessing that early limited production and huge demand may well increase that in the secondary market, which isn't controlled by the manufacturer. I might sell it and come out of the deal with an older, but still very nice ST8E or similar, just because of the limited market.

The really cute toy I'd like to have is Stellar Products new (not yet in production, IIRC) AO-5 adaptive optics system, but that thang is going to weigh in at about 50 grand.

I could get a chunk of land in the high desert for less than that to get myself out of a light-polluted and unstable atmosphere, but the idea (at least for photography) with the AO-5 is that I'd get nearly those conditions on the coast, without the hours lost to driving and the wear and tear on the equipment (and my back) in setting up and taking down all the hardware.

	25-08-2003 05:12									#36
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Elijah, my scopes maximum magnification is 600x, I'm not too sure what magnification I was using tonight though... For future reference, do you know how much detail of Mars I can make out with a magnification like that?

	25-08-2003 05:20									#37
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our_man: A hell of a lot!!!

Look at it like this.. The moon is about 350-400'000 km from Earth.. I forget exact numbers. Its a sixth of the size. Mars now is 60'000'000 away, which is roughly 180 times further away. Its about three times larger than the moon, so you could get about 10 times the detail with your scope now than you can with the moon and the naked eye. Mental calculations there, and I'm probably way off (help me MtG!!!).

	25-08-2003 05:22									#38
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Magnification is only part of the issue. What's the aperture and optical type of the scope? A lot of inexperienced people overmagnify, and don't realize that the additional magnfication is offset both by optical limits within the scope and by the inverse square issue wrt magnification - i.e. that with a given scope, doubling the magnification causes a 4x lessening of overall brightness.

At 600x, you're at the limits of optical performance with a top end six incher refractor or Maksutov-Cassegrain design, or a ten incher in the other standard types (SCTs, Newts, etc.). Those limits will get degraded as well on anything other than a truss-rod Newt if you don't give the scope time to adjust to temperature conditions. (differing temperature inside and outside causes air currents within the tube, that distort the images you see, so you have to let the scope equalize to the outside air temperature for an hour or so)

edit - and if you have less than a top end scope and eyepieces, the performance limits are even less, maybe even way less. The key is to get a compromise between brightness and magnification, and if you have wide angle eyepieces instead of Plossl types, use those - the greater eye relief puts a lot less focusing strain on your eyeballs, so you don't lose the ability to focus your eye itself on the eyepiece image.

Small focal length Plossl type eyepieces are notorious for low eye relief, and they really limit you pretty quickly.

	25-08-2003 05:29									#39
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In short, use a lower mag.

	25-08-2003 05:32									#40
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Depends on what you got.

If he has a 11" Celestron or 12" Meade, Televue binocular eyepiece adapter, and any good wideangle eyepieces, by all means go for 600x.

	25-08-2003 05:34									#41
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Depends on what you got. If he has a 11" Celestron or 12" Meade, Televue binocular eyepiece adapter, and any good wideangle eyepieces, by all means go for 600x.

uh...okay. I...uh...got mine at wal-mart for $20. Should I even bother?

	25-08-2003 05:36									#42
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It's better than nothing.

	25-08-2003 05:36									#43
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Meade puts out as series of telescopes using Casagrain optics which are supposed to be A+ stuff. As I recall you could by a camera adapter for them for around $150 and you could hook up any SLR camera to the telescope. Heck, Nikon puts out a truly awesume digital camera body mount that you can put on any Nikon SLR. The digital conversion body will set you back about $1500 and the Nikon camera will set you back any where from $500 to $2000 depending on which model and if you buy it used or not but that's still about $6,000 cheaper then MtG's speciality camera and you can use it for normal shots as well.

It'll be almost as good and 1/3 the price.

	25-08-2003 05:37									#44
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I'm in way over my head here.

	25-08-2003 05:38									#45
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quote: Originally posted by our_man I'm in way over my head here.

Me to.

	25-08-2003 05:38									#46
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Use naked eye! Believe me its the astronomical version of a kick in the teeth if light pollution isnt a problem.

Its a pity Jupiter isnt in the neighbourhood. I have a feeling its near Venus, which will be close to where the sun comes up so we can forget it

	25-08-2003 05:43									#47
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My Dad has some old Soviet field binoculars that he bought second hand in the 1980's. The optics are really great (one of the few things the Soviets built well) and the price was exceedingly reasonable (I think he bought them for $150). Not bad for for 1.5' long 11 power binoculars.

	25-08-2003 05:43									#48
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Just don't expect the results you'd get from this:

	25-08-2003 05:50									#49
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Very... phallic isn't it MtG?

	25-08-2003 06:00									#50
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quote: Originally posted by our_man Elijah, my scopes maximum magnification is 600x, I'm not too sure what magnification I was using tonight though... For future reference, do you know how much detail of Mars I can make out with a magnification like that?

I'll guarantee your scopes max mag isn't x600, how big is the primary? times by 50 gives your maximim magnification, anything else and you'll just get a blur

	25-08-2003 06:08									#51
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Just don't expect the results you'd get from this:

14' Dob? this time next year........

	25-08-2003 06:17									#52
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quote: Originally posted by elijah Very... phallic isn't it MtG?

Refractory scopes like that one have a blind spot in the middle of the field of view. Of course they're much more compact and weight less then the traditional design but you still have that blind spot.

	25-08-2003 08:10									#53
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever MtG, I don't suppose you''d like to adopt me? ;O)

NO!

	25-08-2003 09:01									#54
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever 14' Dob? this time next year........

Way better. 18.5" truss rod Newt, fully motorized. It's an 18.5 NGT from JMI.

Those guys were gonna do a semi-production 42" truss-rod Newt that built into a specially shock absorbed trailer that you towed behind a heavy duty truck or SUV.

I think they will custom build them still, but at a couple of hundred grand, the market is kinda limited. Personally, I wouldn't go bigger than 30 to 36, because I'd be concerned about mirror warpage and stress on anything portable.

	25-08-2003 09:04									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Refractory scopes like that one have a blind spot in the middle of the field of view. Of course they're much more compact and weight less then the traditional design but you still have that blind spot.

Good ones don't. You have a loss of light transmission, but balancing of the primary mirror shape and size with the spider/secondary size and overall focal length allows you to eliminate any direct blind spot.

	25-08-2003 10:13									#56
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I have a 4 in. refractor, Mars is a red orb with white on one end. Up here in Minnesota summer is a bad time for astronomers because the Milky Way and the Ecliptic is so close to the Horizon. The sky around here is SPECTACULAR in the winter, the Milky Way is right overhead (I am at 48N latatude).

	25-08-2003 13:34									#57
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I can now see Neptun and Pluto clearly through my self-constructed telescope. Through the lense they appear about as large as Mars through yours.

not

I shall try again tonight, might have a drive up north out of town, it does seem a lot clearer today.

	25-08-2003 14:08									#58
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We´ve got overcast sky

But I hope maybe the next days there will be clear sky and a chance to get my 70 mm Refractor to work

	25-08-2003 15:14									#59
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Cottbus, BB has a clear sky today, hopefully it'll stay so til nightfall

	25-08-2003 15:18									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Refractory scopes like that .

It's a reflector