30-11-2003 17:36									#211
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I'd say it might be possible to trade Ecological Engineering for Applied Physics, Doctrine: Initiative and the Drone comm link. However, in that case we shouldn't trade with the Hive, since it would mess up our beelines. The idea with acquiring Applied Physics and Doctrine: Initiative is that we get a good beeline to MMI. If the tech chart can be trusted (and I don't think it's 100% correct), we get this beeline if we acquire AP and D:I before researching Environmental Economics:

High Energy Chemistry -> Synthetic Fossil Fuels -> Doctrine: Air Power -> Neural Grafting -> {Centauri Empathy/Progenitor Psych/Polymorphic Software/Doctrine: Loyalty} -> Mind/Machine Interface.

If we can trade for the fifth tech in that beeline (probably Doctrine: Loaylty), we could get MMI as our fifth tech. We might be able to get it even sooner if we can get other tech trades on the beeline.

One alternative for this plan is to trade for Doctrine: Loyalty now (with the Hive) and to get Intellectual Integrity and the Citizen's Defense Force next. However, this would slow us slightly in obtaining MMI, and we want to make sure we are the first ones to reach it.


So, to sum it up, I'd propose a trade with the PEACE in which we offer Ecological Engineering and receive Doctrine: Initiative, Applied Physics, the Drone comm link and hopefully restrictions that prohibit the PEACE from the trading Ecological Engineering further. Since it might take a while before we can make a decision on this, it might be a good idea to write a small message to the PEACE, just to let them know we are still alive.

	30-11-2003 21:27									#212
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to Minute Mirage's plan. Trading with the Consciousness, who are roughly our equals, is preferable to trading with the Hive, the in-game leaders.

On another topic, sorry for being absent recently; I've had a lot of actual academics to catch up on. I'll try to have some time for simulated academics as well, but I won't be sure until I get back home and take stock of my remaining assignments.

Hope to be posting again fairly soon.

	01-12-2003 12:41									#213
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Okay, MM's plan looks good to me, except that I already mailed Maniac saying we'd like to trade for Applied Physics. Does that screw the beelines up?

	01-12-2003 13:05									#214
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Okay, MM's plan looks good to me, except that I already mailed Maniac saying we'd like to trade for Applied Physics. Does that screw the beelines up?

Getting Applied Physics is essential for the beeline. However, if we trade for it with the Cyborgs, we have to alter the deal with the PEACE. I wouldn't want to trade Ecological Engineering just for Doctrine: Initiative.

	02-12-2003 14:25									#215
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I received this PM from Octavian X:

quote: Hive Communication - Tech Trade Sent to: Minute Mirage, GeneralTacitus Greetings to the Staff of the Planet University of Technology! First of all, I feel it appropriate to inform the University of the Hive's current situation. For the time being, I am the head comissioner of Foreign Relations. I ask that all communications be sent to either myself or Chairman Voltaire. Secondly, we wish to revive previous discussions involving a trade of all our current techs and commlinks for ecological engineering. We hope that the University will act quickly regarding this deal, as we expect to have eco eng within the next few years. Thank you, Octavian X Comissioner of Foriegn Relations of the Human Hive

I advise we answer them pretty soon, since they proposed the deal a few months ago and haven't heard back from us at any point, if I'm not mistaken. Still, I wouldn't accept the deal, and I would rather trade with the PEACE or the CyCon.

	05-12-2003 18:59									#216
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Who's going to play the turn? I don't have the time to write any recommendation, but I suggest we continue booming. Other than that, do what you want.

	07-12-2003 10:27									#217
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We're past the limit once again, and I have no idea of who's supposed to play the turn. If someone is going to play the turn, please do so ASAP. Otherwise, I'll play it when I have time, i.e. after 1 hour or so.

	07-12-2003 12:16									#218
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I played the turn then. I can post the end-of-turn save here, if someone wants to see it.

Things to note:

We (seem to) have met the Drones! Our status is truce, so I assume they have spotted us. Our unity foil is heading towards their territory, which is to the west of the Hive. We should probably make diplomatic contact with them.

Mir Lab hit drone riots, assumedly caused by oddly shifting b-drones.

We spotted a Hive transport foil with a probe team on board in (1,25). It's likely that it's heading towards us, which is why we now have two bases producing librarians. We have to have librarians in each of our northern bases now, not just the coastal bases.

--


Now, we really need to sort out the turn playing. Once again, I wasn't sure who was going to play the turn, so we passed the 48 hour limit. Seeing as I've played most of the turns lately, I can be the primary turn player, and play turns as soon as possible, if that's what you want. I'd also be quite happy, if someone else is the primary turn player, in which case I could act as a back-up turn player if needed. What I don't want is not being sure who's going to or allowed to play the turn.

	08-12-2003 06:19									#219
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I'd be quite happy for MM to be primary turnplayer, as he's a) as he said, palyed msot of the turns lately, and b) probably better at managing things than me - however, there's nothing to stop me playing the turns either, if necessary.

	08-12-2003 11:52									#220
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I got a PM from Maniac, which was apparently sent earlier to both GT and Archaic:

quote: Greetings Fullhumans GeneralTacticus and Archaic, I assume you have received Impaler's message, telling we are willing to trade Applied Physics (besides also Doc:Ini), and would be most interested in acquiring Ecological Engineering. In your latest message you also mentioned you believe that the planetary council will be called soon. May we ask why you believe so? We have information that, though in the past certain factions had the intention to do so, they have chosen to wait to call the council for an undetermined time. This mean that you wouldn't get eg the drone frequency in the near future after all. Therefore please keep in mind that we are always willing to trade the drone frequency to you, as a seperate deal or as part of a package deal. We were also wondering about the nature of your pact with PEACE. May we inform how close you two are together? Greetings, Mani Alpha-3 Prime Function of the Cybernetic Consciousness

What we need to decide is who to trade with, Cyborgs or PEACE. The way I see it, we're looking at trading Ecological Engineering for Applied Physics and Doctrine: Initiative, with the clause that Ecological Engineering should not be traded onwards. The Drone comm link we have already, so we don't need to trade for it.

	09-12-2003 07:50									#221
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I got another PM from Drogue today:

quote: Greetings GT, Archaic and Minute Mirage, I know you are debating our offer, but I have been authorised to sweeten it, if you can accept it relatively quickly. Our offer is that we send you Applied Physics, the Drone commlink, and a small number of ec, in return for Ecological Engineering. I do not have confirmation of the number of ec yet, it is being duscussed, but I should be able to tell you tomorrow. We know you believe that the council will be called, so the commlink to be worthless. The reason we think it won't be, is because of the two factions that can become governor, one lacks some commlinks, and the other is not sure if they have the votes, and does not wish to risk it. I think you may have to wait for a while for it to be called. What we would like, is that in your next turn you offer Eco Eng. That means we can offer App Phys, the ec and the commlink in our next turn, and accept it (with both sides down) and then you can accept it in your turn (2150) and the deal will happen This should give us a few days until you next play the turn, to discuss arrangements. Yours, - Drogue, External Affairs Function of the Cybernetic Conciousness.

So, how do we respond to this? Do we tell them that we already have the Drone commlink? And weren't we already going to get Doctrine: Initiative from the trade?

	09-12-2003 14:43									#222
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I'm quite curious as to why the Cyborgs are in such a hurry. It could be that they want the tech before they finish researching theirs, so that the tech cost will be lower for their next tech. On the other hand, it could be that they are looking to trade Ecological Engineering onwards to another faction, that needs it quickly. One such faction is the Hive, who is currently researching the tech. In any case, I don't think we should agree to the deal as such, not without the clause that Ecological Engineering should not be traded onwards.

What I'd like us to do, is to enquire the reason for the need of haste, and let them know that we do not wish to trade for the Drone comm link. Instead, we want to ensure that they do not trade Ecological Engineering to anyone. It might also be a good idea to get into negotiations on the same deal with the PEACE, and try to get the best deal possible. At the moment, I would lean towards trading with our pactmates, since I'm slightly distrustful of the Cyborgs.

Speaking of diplomacy, have you contacted the Drones and/or the Hive lately, GT?

	10-12-2003 15:28									#223
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Just for the record, a few more messages from the Cyborgs:


Drogue:

quote: Further details for possible tech trade Greetings GT, Archaic and Minute Mirage, We have discussed and can offer 30ec, plus Applied Physics, for Ecological Engineering, if you can enter them in the diplomacy box in your next (2149) turn (not preaccepted). Is this acceptable? We notice you have already got the Drone commlink, and so are not in need of that. Yours, - Drogue, EAF of the Cybernetic Conciousness.

Impaler[WrG]:

quote: Cycon Comunicay Greatings Planetary Achedemichians I come to you from the Cycon Conciousness to inquire as to your response to our eariler Comunicay. We heard of your interested in Aplied Physics and offered to exchange that tec with you for Eco Eng, the Drone Com and a Sum of Credits. We have now noticed though that you have the Drone Com already so this ofcorse will likly require something additional to sweeten the deal. May we enquire as to what you will require to make this deal happen, indead if it can happen at all. We wish to have an agreement reached in time for you to offer Eco Eng to us in 49, your next turn. Then we shall counter offer our payment and accept in 49. Then you can accept the offer in 50 and we will have access to Eco Eng in 50. It would greatly ease our terraforming plans if we could make a comitment before 49 comes along so that we may begin moving formers into place. We also realize that you are probly having staffing problems and that this may be the reason for the delay in your response. We ask that you attempt a respose ASAP and that you use a Triplicate protocal (as I have dont with this message). Send responses to Manic, Drogue and Myself.

GT, have you been in contact with the PEACE, Hive and Drones lately? Have you responded to the Cyborgs yet?

	11-12-2003 06:08									#224
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I haven't cotnacted anyone recently.

	12-12-2003 22:16									#225
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Another message from Impaler[WrG]:

quote: Cycon Comunicay Any Progress in discussing our offer? It will by Universities turn very shortly and we would like you to be able to confirm you will offer Eco Eng even if we are not shure on adsactly what you require in return. We have also been considering trades involving Doc Init, BioGenetics and SoHB or perhaps some combination of the above. If you could send us some additional feedback on this issue it would help a lot as time is running out to make a deal this turn. Remember to Direct Responses to Manic, Drouge and Myself.

Regarding the trade treaty, I've voiced opinion on it. If nobody has anything more to say on the matter, GeneralTacticus can reply as he wishes as far as I'm as concerned. Btw, GT, I remember you saying that you have time for playing the turns, so would you like to do that? I'm somewhat pressed with my exams, and I don't want to get too involved in the ACDG at the moment.

	13-12-2003 06:54									#226
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Yes, I can play the turns at present.

	13-12-2003 07:14									#227
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Okay, I just PMed the CyCon, telling them that we're offering Eco Eng in exchange for Applied Physics, Doctrine: Initiative, and a pledge from them not to trade Eco Eng to any other faction.

	13-12-2003 11:42									#228
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I received the following reply from Impaler:

quote: We have recived your counter-offer and it will be analized as quickly as possible. I can tell you unofficialy that I doupt it will be accepted as is. If you could add SotHB or drop the none proliferation requirments then the chance of acceptance would be much greater. We might also add a sum of Credits to our end if you do either of these things.

Since, to my knowledge, no-one here considers dropping the no-trading clause a viable option, we have to choose whether or not to throw in SotHB. Comments?

	13-12-2003 11:52									#229
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Since, to my knowledge, no-one here considers dropping the no-trading clause a viable option, we have to choose whether or not to throw in SotHB. Comments?

I'd say that we should get in touch with the PEACE and ask if they agree to our terms. I wouldn't like to trade away SotHB unless absolutely necessary, since it's on the path to MMI.

	13-12-2003 11:53									#230
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So what, exactly, do I offer them? The same as the CyCon?

	13-12-2003 12:05									#231
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus So what, exactly, do I offer them? The same as the CyCon?

That's what I'm thinking, yes.

	13-12-2003 12:09									#232
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Shall I also add in a proviso that we ot trade the techs that we obtain from the deal to anyone, or would that be too restrictive?

	13-12-2003 12:14									#233
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Shall I also add in a proviso that we ot trade the techs that we obtain from the deal to anyone, or would that be too restrictive?

I don't see us trading Applied Physics and Doctrine: Initiative to anyone, so yes, adding that clause might be a good idea.

	13-12-2003 12:19									#234
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Ok, I've PMed Herc; is there anyone else I should send it to?

	13-12-2003 12:23									#235
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Ok, I've PMed Herc; is there anyone else I should send it to?

Probably Flubber as he's been their ambassador and assumedly Makahlua as he's played their last turns.

	13-12-2003 12:26									#236
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IIRC, Makahlua is actually a she, but anyway... I've sent copies to both of them as well.

	15-12-2003 15:35									#237
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Sorry about the extended absence everyone. I've had no real internet connection for some time now, and it's been literally impossible for me to get onto 'poly.

	16-12-2003 13:47									#238
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I have received the following PMs from Maniac and Flubber:

From Maniac:

quote: Hello Academicians GeneralTacticus and Minute Mirage, Recently we mentioned to the Hive that we were hoping to trade Ecological Engineering with you. To that they responded they will research EcoEng themselves soon and that they are willing to trade both EcoEng and Gene Splicing to us as well if we were interested. After deliberation with the Collective I'm afraid we are therefore not interested to trade EcoEng with you under the conditions you mentioned in your latest proposal. We are still interested though in finding out if instead of EcoEng a trade regarding the less valuable technology of Gene Splicing would be possible. We would again be willing to pay you for example Doctrine: Initiative in return, or as another possibility Applied Physics plus a bit of cash. But to speed up possible negotiations, we certainly wouldn't be willing to pay two techs for it as you proposed for EcoEng. Would you be possibly interested in starting negotiations regarding such a trade? Friendly greetings, Mani Alpha-3 Prime Function of the Cybernetic Consciousness

And Flubber:

quote: Yes it is acceptable-- I will pass the message along to our operations folks to make the trade happen. We hope this is a continuation of our close and friendly relations and hope that we can assist each other in the future

Obviously, this means we no longer have to worry about this particular trade with the CyCon; however, do we want to bother with this other one they've proposed?

	16-12-2003 13:56									#239
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Obviously, this means we no longer have to worry about this particular trade with the CyCon; however, do we want to bother with this other one they've proposed?

Probably not, we already have the techs we want at this point, unless someone can offer us High Energy Chemistry.

Btw, we're past the DL, so I hope you'll play the turn quite soon.

	17-12-2003 20:48									#240
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Guys - it's coming up to 4 days since the turn was hung on the thread.

Consider this an official 12 hour warning, after which, if not played, I'll exercise the CMN duty of hitting "turn complete" and passing it on

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