12-10-2003 14:14									#121
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Ok, I played the turn. Here's what happened:

We have met the Hive! Our scout in the landmass to the north from us met a Hive unity rover.

Changed worker to doctor in Climactic Research in order to avoid drone riots.

Hurried recreation commons in Otkrietia-Discovery for 46 ECs.

Rehomed a crawler from Mir Lab to Monitoring Station in order to speed up the building in M.S.

Tried to figure out what the formers were supposed to do as best as I could.

Added stockpile energy to queues in University Base and Mir Lab. Apparently, the whole production of the base is counted as stockpile energy in the turn something is built. This means that for University Base, which is producing over 20 minerals per turn, we get 10 ECs every time something is finished just by adding stockpile energy to the queue.

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What we will we do diplomatically with the Hive? Will we offer them a treaty at the moment? Btw, seeing as the Hive is very close to the north from us, and seeing that they have Doctrine: Flexibility, I'd feel a lot safer with some probes in our northern coastal bases. On the other hand, I'd like to get some probe foils there, so that we could infiltrate the Hive ourselves.

	12-10-2003 15:18									#122
	Inflate your Upload Space

No faction had Probe Foils, last I knew. Probe Foils would be a good idea, but we can probably hold off on the guardians for a while yet.

	12-10-2003 18:16									#123
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Archaic No faction had Probe Foils, last I knew. Probe Foils would be a good idea, but we can probably hold off on the guardians for a while yet.

We don't have infiltration on the Hive, so we don't know what units they have. However, they've only had Doctrine: Flexiblity for a few turns, so they won't have an armada of probe foils yet. Anyway, I do think we should make a few probe foils of our own in University Base, and pay a visit to our friends in the north.

	13-10-2003 02:32									#124
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Agreed.

	14-10-2003 12:42									#125
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quote: Posted by Maniac in the Turn Tracking Thread Time for a Planetary Council?

Whether or not he was being serious (and he probably wasn't), this is an issue that needs thinking about - what are we going to do when the Planetary Council is convened? I can't imagine that we'll have the highest pop, or even the second highest (and I expect the Hive will be in first place, who do we want to support in place of the Hive? Also, if we had an opportunity to arrange for the deadlocking of the elections, would we, and how much would we be prepared to pay to achieve it?

	14-10-2003 12:57									#126
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Hmm, difficult questions. I don't know what the Consciousness is thinking now. Depending on the size of the Pirate faction, our two factions might be able to be an obstructionist block.

	14-10-2003 14:56									#127
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Has the Hive contacted us? Should we contact them?

	15-10-2003 02:01									#128
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If one thing is obvious now, it's that the Pirates aren't going to be good friends with the Cyborgs. On the whole, I'd say this is good news to us, since now the Pirates are more likely to consider us as a trusted ally and both the Cyborgs and the Pirates lose the pact commerce. Things are getting interesting as far as diplomacy in concerned.

By the way, I'm currently recreating the game a single player game to serve as a 'simulator'. The idea is that the simulator reflects the real game accurately enough, so that it is easy to plan our turns well into the future. I'm planning on adding new data to the simulator after every turn, so it would be always updated. I know the Hive is using this method and apparently their careful planning of the turns is a big reason to their success.

	15-10-2003 03:04									#129
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Personally, I'm wondering if we shouldn't hook up with the Borgs in preference to PEACE. We can only be in the Pirates shadow for the meantime, until their lack of industrial capacity leaves them in the dust. With the Cyborgs, we are equals, who can work towards a common goal. Specifically, the long term elimination of both PEACE and the Hive. The Cyborgs may have betrayed PEACE, but I trust them to act well by us more than I trust PEACE themselves.

	15-10-2003 03:11									#130
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quote: [size=1]Originally posted by General Tacitus[/size I can't imagine that we'll have the highest pop, or even the second highest (and I expect the Hive will be in first place)

As of your 2141 turn basic infiltration data (commlink, right click on faction leader):

Hive ............... 37 votes
Drones ........... 19 votes
CyCon ............ 19 votes
PEACE ............ 19 votes
PUT ................ 15 votes

G (still lurking and answering questions).

	15-10-2003 03:13									#131
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Archaic Personally, I'm wondering if we shouldn't hook up with the Borgs in preference to PEACE. We can only be in the Pirates shadow for the meantime, until their lack of industrial capacity leaves them in the dust. With the Cyborgs, we are equals, who can work towards a common goal. Specifically, the long term elimination of both PEACE and the Hive. The Cyborgs may have betrayed PEACE, but I trust them to act well by us more than I trust PEACE themselves.

That's certainly a possibility. I was mainly thinking about the short term impacts, especially considering that we don't have that many comm links yet. Perhaps the Pirates would now be more interested in a map trade? In any case, I think we need to ally with someone in order to bring the Hive down.

	15-10-2003 03:15									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie PUT ................ 15 votes

Don't rub it in...



On the positive side, at least we can pop-boom easily. That's something only the Drones are capable of.

	15-10-2003 07:52									#133
	Remove this text

Your 2142 turn has now been posted

Last edited by Googlie on 15-10-2003 at 08:58

	15-10-2003 09:12									#134
	Diplomatic thoughts Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Dean Archaic: First, I disagree that the Cyborgs are less likely to betray us than are the Pirates. The Cyborgs have proven their untrustworthiness by their betrayal of PEACE. We may not fall for such a convoluted trick, but we need a Pactmate we can be reasonably sure of the integrity and, to a certain extent, the loyalty of. PEACE shares common interests with us, and in the long run in order to expand overseas or mount a campaign against the Hive, we will have to either go with their cooperation, or through them.

I say stand by our Pact with the Pirates, make clear that we intend to stick by it and that we think we could be constructive allies. Emphasize that we have common interests in defeating the Hive, the dominant faction, and the Cyborgs -- their betrayers, our tech competitors.

This is open to debate of course, but that is my view.

Minute Mirage: I believe that any faction with -1 POP can pop-boom in SMAX with Demo, Planned, Children's Creche, and Golden Age. I haven't teste it, but that's what I've heard. Likewise, the Hive can boom with Planned, CC, and Golden Age. Please correct me if I'm wrong; as you all are aware it wouldn't be the first time.

	15-10-2003 09:23									#135
	Remove this text

No - you are right. and GA's can be induced to pop-boom strategically, base by base

G.

	15-10-2003 12:29									#136
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Playing the turn now.

I don't disagree with you Adam on the PEACE pact. We can likely take a much greater benifit from it than they can, thanks to the commerce bonus, but I think you'll find the Cyborg's betraying them was for the same reasons we ourselves would be mistrustful of the pirates. Specifically....we know they're up to something with the Hive, to be providing them with Ind. Auto. Either they're just really dumb about what they should and shouldn't be trading, not likely with Flubber on their team, or something's up.

	15-10-2003 12:42									#137
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The turn linked to here is the current turn. If there are no disagreements with my actions, MM, please send it onwards.

2142

	15-10-2003 13:15									#138
	Re: Diplomatic thoughts Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by AdamTG02 Minute Mirage: I believe that any faction with -1 POP can pop-boom in SMAX with Demo, Planned, Children's Creche, and Golden Age. I haven't teste it, but that's what I've heard. Likewise, the Hive can boom with Planned, CC, and Golden Age. Please correct me if I'm wrong; as you all are aware it wouldn't be the first time.

Yes, I know. Although I didn't emphasize the word, I meant that along with the Drones, we are the only faction that can pop boom easily. I'm not yet experienced in GA pop booming, but my impression is that it's not very easy without the HGP. This would make pop booming more tricky for the Cyborgs and Pirates.

	15-10-2003 13:57									#139
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic The turn linked to here is the current turn. If there are no disagreements with my actions, MM, please send it onwards. 2142

I didn't make any changes and sent the turn onwards. Just for the record, we are accepting a treaty with the Hive and moving our scout away from their lands. The Pirates have gotten Gene Splicing, which means they have definitely traded with the Hive. As Archaic said, it seems very likely that the Pirates traded IA to the Hive. By the way, I hate to be nitpicking, but I'd still prefer if other paths of communication were used instead of the in-game diplomatic box.

	15-10-2003 14:57									#140
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A trivial point, I know, but did we erase those landmarks? If not, please put that on the agenda for the next turn.

Anyway, regarding the issue of PEACE vs. CyCon: I think we'd be better served by avoiding taking sides against either of them for now, and playing them off against one another as far as possible; if they won't trade tech with one another, then we can profit by acting as the middleman, and offering our own research as well. That said, following the recent CyCon incident, I don't especially trust them; they've forfeited the right to be trusted, and we should make sure, in future, to set up deals we can hold them to by more than their word.

And regarding the Council issue; from the pop levels listed there, we'd be unable to deadlock matters by forming voting blocs with the other factions, but pops may change from now to the Council being convened, and we have to be on the lookout for opportunities to achieve deadlock. If we can't, of course, we simply sell our votes to whichever of the contenders bids highest (definitely not the Hive, though, unless we can see they'll lsoe anyway; my preference would be the PEACE, as they're Pacted with us and therefore have our data anyway.

	15-10-2003 15:10									#141
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus A trivial point, I know, but did we erase those landmarks? If not, please put that on the agenda for the next turn.

No we didn't, and I don't really see why we should. It would seem that every faction can have 12 landmarks and we only have 10. We know that the Hive has 12 landmarks, and that the Pirates most likely have the most landmarks. If someone should erase their landmarks it's the Pirates.

	15-10-2003 15:15									#142
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Ok - I hadn't counted them. Have we gotten rid of the oens on already-founded bases? They're pointless, and jsut take up space.

	15-10-2003 15:31									#143
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Yes, they're gone.

	15-10-2003 19:42									#144
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I finished building the single-player simulator of the game. It's not perfectly accurate in every regard, but it should be very close to what we currently know of the world. The idea is that it should be a useful tool in planning the production in our bases and in similar things. The save file currently corresponds to the situation by the end of turn 2142.

Posting attachments appears to be disallowed here, so I can't post the file. If someone wants it, I can email it.

	15-10-2003 20:45									#145
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Minute Mirage Posting attachments appears to be disallowed here, so I can't post the file. If someone wants it, I can email it.

You can use the upload feature to hang the zipped file in your upload space at 'Poly, then just give the url in the thread and others can download from there

G.

	15-10-2003 20:59									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Minute Mirage As Archaic said, it seems very likely that the Pirates traded IA to the Hive.

You really need to have someone dedicated to covert intelligence, as all your rivals do.

From your own game turns you'd have seen that both the Hive and the Drones changed to Wealth within a year of each other, in the mid 20's, while the CyCon chaged to wealth in the early 30's with PEACE a turn later

You need Ind Auto for Wealth, so I'll leave you to draw your own inferences

(btw you get this info from commlinks, and then right-click on the faction leader's name)

G.

	15-10-2003 21:07									#147
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Googlie You can use the upload feature to hang the zipped file in your upload space at 'Poly, then just give the url in the thread and others can download from there G.

Thanks for the tip, I hadn't used the upload feature before.

Here's the link: http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Mi...ator2142end.zip

quote: Originally posted by Googlie You really need to have someone dedicated to covert intelligence, as all your rivals do. From your own game turns you'd have seen that both the Hive and the Drones changed to Wealth within a year of each other, in the mid 20's, while the CyCon chaged to wealth in the early 30's with PEACE a turn later You need Ind Auto for Wealth, so I'll leave you to draw your own inferences (btw you get this info from commlinks, and then right-click on the faction leader's name) G.

Thank you very much for that information. I joined the game rather late, so the first save I have is for the year 2133.

	16-10-2003 11:38									#148
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Well then, who would like to go for the job? I've got copies of all the saves to date that I've played, and I'd imagine GT or MM has the rest.

	16-10-2003 11:59									#149
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I have saves for 2123, 2127, and 2129-2138. The earlier files got lost when my HD crashed...

	16-10-2003 12:02									#150
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btw, I assume we all received that email from the Hive? Any thoughts on how to reply? (Crimson Sunrise, this means you)