27-08-2003 21:28									#1
	Nigerian woman appeals stoning sentence Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Nigerian stoning appeal heard Wednesday, August 27, 2003 Posted: 12:00 PM EDT (1600 GMT) KATSINA, Nigeria (AP) -- Baby in her arms, a single mother condemned by an Islamic court to death by stoning has appeared at a courthouse in northern Nigeria for an appeal of a sentence that has drawn an international outcry. Amina Lawal, 32, in a blue and brown dress and pink veil, seemed overwhelmed at the crush Wednesday of riot police and journalists. "All these cameras, all these policemen," she said, tears in her eyes, as she made her way inside. Thirty-five riot police ringed the courthouse, the heaviest security yet in what has been more than a year of off-and-on hearings. Lawal was convicted in March 2002 after the birth of her girl, Wasila, out of wedlock. An Islamic court found her guilty of adultery even though her baby was born more than two years after her divorce. Under Islamic laws, or Shariah, adopted in a dozen predominantly Muslim northern Nigerian states, judges ordered Lawal buried up to her neck in sand and then stoned to death. The alleged father of the baby denied responsibility and was acquitted. Judges have postponed carrying out Lawal's sentence until her child is weaned. "Amina is very worried. Sometimes she can't eat. She wants to see the end of this case so that she can marry and have a normal life," said her uncle, 50-year-old Magaji Liman. Officials of Katsina state have insisted the case go through the judicial appeals process despite requests by Nigeria's federal government that Lawal be freed. Lawal's lawyers were due to present defense arguments at Wednesday's hearings. It had been unclear whether the hearing would even be held. Past hearings have repeatedly been canceled, in what some have suspected is an attempt to deflect attention following international campaigns against the sentence by rights movements and women's groups.

You know, liberals like Bill Maher who want us to examine why the Muslim world hates us so much, should perhaps also insist that the Muslim world examine why the West hates it so much. This case makes me sick!

	27-08-2003 21:31									#2
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These judges who sentenced her may be in a rude suprise after they die when they find out how God feels about stuff like this...

	27-08-2003 21:41									#3
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The northern half of Nigeria is Islamic while the southern half is Christian. When ever you see an article about something stupid in Nigeria it will almost always be from the north.

On another note why doesn't the guy get stoned to death as well if adultery is such a horrible thing? Damn, sexist primitives.

	27-08-2003 21:45									#4
	Re: Nigerian woman appeals stoning sentence Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Jules You know, liberals like Bill Maher who want us to examine why the Muslim world hates us so much, should perhaps also insist that the Muslim world examine why the West hates it so much. This case makes me sick!

What does Bill Maher have to do with this?

Evil like this isn't simply part of the Muslim world. You should study up on the Magdelene Laundries in Ireland to see what Christians in the modern world are capable of doing to young women who show signs of sexuality. Fundimentalists are the enemies of humanity, regardless of their specific creed.

What I want to know is why this woman hasn't fled the North of Nigeria for the Christian and animist South.

	27-08-2003 21:50									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin On another note why doesn't the guy get stoned to death as well if adultery is such a horrible thing? Damn, sexist primitives.

Because they can't prove he was the father, while the fact that she had a child is evidence that she did have sex. That's the excuse, anyway, but really, it's about controling women. Africa, Muslim, Christian, and Animist, are almost all despicable towards women. At least one Muslim country is rather enlightened in its treatment of women: Morocco. Algeria was, but the fundies there have been slaughtering women there.

	27-08-2003 21:56									#6
	Re: Re: Nigerian woman appeals stoning sentence Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara What I want to know is why this woman hasn't fled the North of Nigeria for the Christian and animist South.

That would be my plan if I was her.

	27-08-2003 22:01									#7
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I know she's been in hiding in a diferent city, but it's still in the North.

	27-08-2003 22:22									#8
	Re: Re: Nigerian woman appeals stoning sentence Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara What does Bill Maher have to do with this? Evil like this isn't simply part of the Muslim world. You should study up on the Magdelene Laundries in Ireland to see what Christians in the modern world are capable of doing to young women who show signs of sexuality. Fundimentalists are the enemies of humanity, regardless of their specific creed....

Oh, I agree with that absolutely, and that was exactly my point. Both the Western world and the Muslim world have a lot of soul-searching to do. It's not just a simple matter of "only one side is to blame." In the thread about an autistic boy dying during a fundie exorcism in Milwaukee, we see that this kind of ignorance exists in the US as well. I brought up Bill Maher because IMO he tends to portray the West (specifically the US) as more to blame.

	27-08-2003 22:47									#9
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This thing spans for a long time now. Last time a stoning had been ordered, international pressure had Nigeria's central power force the Northern fundamentalists to drop it.
There was a strong mobilization for Amina Lawal too (at least in the media I read, I hear about it about once a month). Let's hope it'll have the central authority move once again. Let's hope they'll get rid of the sharia and these fundamentalist *******s

	27-08-2003 23:09									#10
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Nigeria is meant to be a secular state. It's just that the Muslims in the north are flexing their muscles to see how much they can get away with it. If Lagos continues to ignore whats going on in the north, more and more incidents like these will take place. They ought to put their foot down and remind these people that Nigeria is a secular state.

There's something I've been wondering about with regard to cases like these. Sharia is Islamic Law. Why don't these women simply convert to another religion and argue as they are no longer Muslim they have no right to be tried in an Islamic court.

This is just common sense to me, so why don't they do it to escape death?

	27-08-2003 23:10									#11
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The Magdalene Laundries is not something widespread nor is there anything in Catholic doctrine requiring anything like that, rather it was the evil actions of some individual Catholics. Unfortunately, the actions of the sharia judges do find support in the Quran.

	27-08-2003 23:27									#12
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The Old Testament orders to stone women to death if they didn't scream enough when raped.

The problem is not the antics of these outdated pieces of dogma. The problem is that some people or countries base their laws on them

	27-08-2003 23:41									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor The Old Testament orders to stone women to death if they didn't scream enough when raped. The problem is not the antics of these outdated pieces of dogma. The problem is that some people or countries base their laws on them

It's still not the same thing. While there are a minority of Christians who believe the Bible is literally and inerrantly true, they are a minority within Christianity and Bible inerrancy can't truly be said to be a Christian belief. Whereas with a Islam, the teaching about the Koran is that it was sent by God to correct problems with previous scripture, and it is perfect and literally true.

	28-08-2003 05:40									#14
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liberals like Bill Maher

Since when is Bill Maher liberal? I've caught a few episodes of Politically Incorrect and they always had a conservative slant.

You don't have to call for the keeping of women and blacks in cages in order to be considered conservative.

The problem is not the antics of these outdated pieces of dogma. The problem is that some people or countries base their laws on them

* St Leo recalls a certain recent Alabama courthouse incident

	28-08-2003 05:48									#15
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I thought they agreed not to stone her because of international pressure? I guess I remember wrong.

But, for us to criticize Islam, sharia laws, the east etc, that makes us racist pigs who do not understand culture, and the fact that we have raped them all keeps them back. So that makes us mega bastards. We should shut up. The question is why they hate us!

For them to hate us, that's ok. They are more poor, so they can say what they want. They are not racist, even though they have massgatherings shouting death to west and all that propaganda. But that's cool. We still have better weapons .

Last edited by Pekka on 28-08-2003 at 06:11

	28-08-2003 06:02									#16
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo Since when is Bill Maher liberal? I've caught a few episodes of Politically Incorrect and they always had a conservative slant. You don't have to call for the keeping of women and blacks in cages in order to be considered conservative.

Ok, I'll concede: Bill Maher = bad example. It was just the only name to pop into my head since I saw him on Larry King Weekend a few days ago.

quote: * St Leo recalls a certain recent Alabama courthouse incident

I view the Alabama courthouse shenanigans as rather harmless compared to, say, what happened in Milwaukee when an autistic boy died during a fundie exorcism. I don't think the Ten Commandments monument is really hurting anyone, so if it'll shut the fundies up for a while then let 'em have it. As Homer Simpson would say, "Let the baby have his bottle!"

	28-08-2003 06:32									#17
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There's nothing wrong with giving the babies their bottles, but there is definitely something wrong with giving babies their crack cocaine. The legal system is based on precedent and I'd rather not let the Old Testament to ever infect it.

	28-08-2003 07:33									#18
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This is why I am an Athiest. :q

	28-08-2003 07:43									#19
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Because they can't prove he was the father, while the fact that she had a child is evidence that she did have sex. That's the excuse, anyway, but really, it's about controling women. Africa, Muslim, Christian, and Animist, are almost all despicable towards women. At least one Muslim country is rather enlightened in its treatment of women: Morocco. Algeria was, but the fundies there have been slaughtering women there.

AMEN

	28-08-2003 08:07									#20
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stupid fundie bastards

	28-08-2003 08:15									#21
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quote: so if it'll shut the fundies up for a while then let 'em have it

you don't teach a baby that it can get what it wants by throwing a tantrum... if you give an inch, they'll want another... and another... and another... and next thing you know, we're stoning people in Detroit for adultery...

	28-08-2003 08:25									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Sava you don't teach a baby that it can get what it wants by throwing a tantrum... if you give an inch, they'll want another... and another... and another... and next thing you know, we're stoning people in Detroit for adultery...

You mean like Attorney General John Ashcroft tearing up the Constitution bit by bit?

	28-08-2003 08:29									#23
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quote: You mean like Attorney General John Ashcroft tearing up the Constitution bit by bit?

now your gettin' it.

	28-08-2003 08:32									#24
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Because they can't prove he was the father, while the fact that she had a child is evidence that she did have sex. That's the excuse, anyway, but really, it's about controling women. Africa, Muslim, Christian, and Animist, are almost all despicable towards women. At least one Muslim country is rather enlightened in its treatment of women: Morocco. Algeria was, but the fundies there have been slaughtering women there.

Let's get a group together and offer to fund a paternity testing lab! I wonder what they would say to that?

	28-08-2003 08:33									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Sava you don't teach a baby that it can get what it wants by throwing a tantrum... if you give an inch, they'll want another... and another... and another... and next thing you know, we're stoning people in Detroit for adultery...

Well, if it's the people who make those SUVs that might not be such a bad idea.

	28-08-2003 08:35									#26
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quote: Well, if it's the people who make those SUVs that might not be such a bad idea.

... sigh...

	28-08-2003 12:33									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi There are a minority of Christians who believe the Bible is literally and inerrantly true

Sure, but has it always been the case ? Was it the case when Galileo was punished because his theory went against some obscure verse ? Was it the case when Heretics and witches were burned ? I don't think so. Christianty in the past was able to be as stupid as Islam today. Islam's main problem is not the scripture itself. Islam's main problem is that it didn't go through a mainstream critical reflection on its scriptures.

quote: Whereas with a Islam, the teaching about the Koran is that it was sent by God to correct problems with previous scripture, and it is perfect and literally true.

You're probably right that's the claim of the Koran, and many people probably believe it. But then again, there are differences between Muslim countries in how these beliefs are enforced. In Morocco and Tunisia, most city women don't have to wear a veil. In the ME, they are veiled and under the men authority (but with some extent of freedom, especially in the cities). Under the Taliban, women were slaves.
These differences show that the Koran can be differently enforced. It is pretty easy to do so anyway, since it contradicts itself aplenty.

	28-08-2003 14:03									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor These differences show that the Koran can be differently enforced. It is pretty easy to do so anyway, since it contradicts itself aplenty.

As do most religious texts. Its part of their charm

	28-08-2003 14:11									#29
	Re: Re: Nigerian woman appeals stoning sentence Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara You should study up on the Magdelene Laundries in Ireland to see what Christians in the modern world are capable of doing to young women who show signs of sexuality.

I'm no christian, but I know what I'm capable of doing to young women who show signs of sexuality and that's terrifying enough for them.

	28-08-2003 14:13									#30
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quote: Originally posted by our_man There's something I've been wondering about with regard to cases like these. Sharia is Islamic Law. Why don't these women simply convert to another religion and argue as they are no longer Muslim they have no right to be tried in an Islamic court. This is just common sense to me, so why don't they do it to escape death?

It doesn't work like that. Sharia is the law of the province or state, and no one can opt out of it whatever their religion.