28-08-2003 18:41									#1
	Semi-outsider view of Poly ISDG team. Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I have been lurking here for some time now, as many of you know.

I just wanted to add a few comments on the team and the organization.

This forum, and this format is not very user-friendly. I can't explain why, exactly, but to someone who is just comming in, not entirely active, or trying to return after an absense, everything here is rather difficult to get INVOLVED with.

Part of this feeling is that everything is business. I mean you guys have this down to perfection. Very fluent, very effective, very efficient. Also cold and impersonal, though. Perhaps this is because I AM an outsider, I have invested little in this, and that is why it seems cold and impersonal to me. It also does not give me any feeling of desire to MAKE it personal to me.

This could become a problem as the game goes on, I don't know. But, don't be afraid to throw a little FUN in here now and again, hm?

I'll now go back into my hole and watch from afar.

	28-08-2003 19:37									#2
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Unfortunately, with having the worst start of the game (according to Intelligence that we have gathered), we are having to be as businesslike and as cold as possible to have a real chance to survive and make it to the middle/end of the game.

Also, from what we can gather, one if not both of the stronger teams on the other contenent are working towards a possible culture win. The only way that we could prevent that from happening is to do some hit and run raids on their main cultural center.

Even after we have taken over GCA and either dominated or eliminated CFC, we will have to be vigalant to prevent one or both of the others from getting a foothold here and from preventing us from winning.

Yes, it's cold and very calulated, but if all of the starts were of a more even nature, then we really wouldn't have to be. We could let our hair down just a bit.

Atleast, that's My Personal Opinion.

E_T

	28-08-2003 19:39									#3
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If we had a better start then it wouldn't have been as much of a challenge to win. With the way things are though, we have to put in every last ounce of effort to achieve victory. That brings out both good and bad in the team.

	28-08-2003 20:02									#4
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I find that being cut out of the chats (due to my stupid IRC problems) has really disconnected me from the going-ons of the team. Following all the threads in here is too difficult, and having discussion is much easier in a chat format. Just my two-cents.

	28-08-2003 20:04									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Yes, we're out on the ass end of the planet.

Not that it's made us bitter or anything, of course. You see, it's just made us want to kill Mongoose for giving either GWT or CGN (or both) a bloody paradse for a start and sticking us in this puny, festering hellhole. At the very least, we want to break his arm or something.

	28-08-2003 21:10									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Interesting view. Maybe we should combine our cool calculations with more humour now and then ..?

Any other views? They might be helpful to help us get better organized (and have more fun).

	28-08-2003 22:41									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I do agree with Un0 on this one. I can see why someone after a leave of absence comes back and doesn't have a clue what's going on. I also think that members who aren't a minister of anything or in the ISDG government get pushed away to being not active.

	28-08-2003 22:57									#8
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I'm sorry to say this but as Ming says, this forum is not for fun.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=87334

and subsequent PMs traded between us that I'm probably not allowed to show

	28-08-2003 23:01									#9
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That was an impressively quick crackdown Ming effected on that thread - the fun finished only 42 minutes after it started

	28-08-2003 23:10									#10
	Re: Semi-outsider view of Poly ISDG team. Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx This could become a problem as the game goes on, I don't know. But, don't be afraid to throw a little FUN in here now and again, hm?

How would you suggest changing things to make them more fun for those outside the "inner circle?" I have to admit that I'm so engrossed in my job as MOW and the day-to-day running of things that all I worry about is what happens in-game so anything outside of that is pretty foreign to me.

	29-08-2003 02:06									#11
	Re: Re: Semi-outsider view of Poly ISDG team. Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Trip How would you suggest changing things to make them more fun for those outside the "inner circle?" I have to admit that I'm so engrossed in my job as MOW and the day-to-day running of things that all I worry about is what happens in-game so anything outside of that is pretty foreign to me.

I agree with Trip in general.

Am I supposed to spend all my time making posts and anserwing questions as to what is going on in the game? Or are team members supposed to make an effort to learn what is going on; not just stopping by once a month and looking for a quick summary.

I asked, in the chat, if it would preferable to have a thread that explained what happend in the last 10 turns and what we would like to happen in the next 10 turns put out every 10 turns. It didn't receive warm welcome.

This thread/post would have to be co-wrote by all the Consuls with input from the Minister's. That's a lot of coordinating to do just to keep casual visitors informed.

How many times have people stopped by in chat and asked what is going on? If someone were to ask specific questions I'm sure the Consuls or Miisters would do their best to answer them.

Also, this forum is not about having a party. This game is fun and enjoyable to me because it is challenging. We are playing against human opponents instead of the AI. Perhaps Ming or MarkG should let some of those that are interested, role play a bit in this forum. Those that wish to role play cannot do it outside of here for fear of revealing confidential information. I would, if I were interested in doing some role play, contact one of those two and explain the situation. Either you'll be allowed to do so here, or another subforum could be set up.

	29-08-2003 02:28									#12
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Yeah, I can't think of any ways to make things more accessible or lurker-friendly, but I'm sure that someone has some good ideas.

I made the FAM thread with the intention of posting regular updates and constantly editing the top post to keep it current, but I often let it slide as it seems that people rarely, if ever, visit it.

One good thing that the Consuls do is cut & paste the same initial post into every turnthread that mentions the current issues/questions to be discussed. One bad thing we Ministers don't do enough is edit those questions/issues. :/

For me, whenever I don't understand what's going on, I just ask questions. Many other players do the same, and some even post new threads with their questions. From what I've seen, those questions are quickly answered

--Togas

	29-08-2003 04:49									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Adrian Hon That was an impressively quick crackdown Ming effected on that thread - the fun finished only 42 minutes after it started

It was reported to the Moderators by someone (*cough* Panag *cough*) who is no longer with us....

E_T

	29-08-2003 23:00									#14
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Ideas?

I'm far too far out of it to start right now, but I am famous for one SPECIFIC type of idea.....

	30-08-2003 02:34									#15
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As someone who's been jumping in and out, I've found F-P's "what's happened so far" threads very helpful, and also for a period of time the statement / update of Apolyton's strategy.

I agree it's a little stiff in here... even compared to GS' forum, which can be pretty intense.

No biggie... people should just keep it in mind.

Un0, obviously, anything you would want to do would be great.

	30-08-2003 05:04									#16
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Adrian Hon That was an impressively quick crackdown Ming effected on that thread - the fun finished only 42 minutes after it started

And the reason for that quick crackdwon will be targetted for elimination if I am ever in his vicinity with a flamethrower.

I guess, in MY mind, the ISDG is less about the fun and more about the serious business of proving Apolyton the best in the business. However perhaps there can be some more thrown in... I'll admit that when I have missed a save being played I find it very difficult to get what has happened based on the turn reports. Anyone can download the save and look for themselves, but not very team-like is it? I used to post, after each saveplay I was present for, a quick list of notable actions/details without going into all the worker details etc. Perhaps I can do that again and encourage the other Consuls to try as well.

Otherwise we have had some discussion threads when planning the upcoming war. For a while though we have just been following the details of that plan. When we get to the war there will be a bit more discussion.

If this sort of amount isn't enough and there is something else we can somehow arrange to keep the team in the loop, let us know. I am not normally at a loss for things we could try, but I am now. It is likely the Ministers and Consuls are just so engrossed in all the tiny details it is hard to disengage and see what the TEAM wants.

So what DOES the team want?

	30-08-2003 05:30									#17
	Put an end to popups!

Broad strokes and major issues. Key current questions. Alerts for significant upcoming events. Summaries of the chats (I am not so much of a chat person).

Hmmm... Perhaps this could be an interesting morph of the kind of reporting Un0 has done elsewhere. A weekly update, perhaps?

And kudos to those of you who have been doing the work... from where I sit, you are living up to Apolyton's reputation.

Applause and .

[And on a separate but related note, is anyone else surprised by CFC's performance, or lack thereof?]

	30-08-2003 11:15									#18
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Considering how long they have been at war, I really couldn't say. But we do know that their diplomacy was not as well considered as ours was, otherwise, they wouldn't be in this war in the first place.

E_T

	30-08-2003 11:35									#19
	Put an end to popups!

To be perfectly blunt, between Apolyton and CFC about 95% of the good strategists are here at Apolyton.

Hope no CFCers see that after they get extincted.

	30-08-2003 12:02									#20
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So I guess all the GOTM veterans are not actively participating on CFC's team? There's some pretty darn good players in their Hall of Fame...


Dominae

	30-08-2003 12:05									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae So I guess all the GOTM veterans are not actively participating on CFC's team? There's some pretty darn good players in their Hall of Fame...

Nope, I don't think a single one of them is on their ISDG team.

	30-08-2003 13:01									#22
	Re: Semi-outsider view of Poly ISDG team. Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx This forum, and this format is not very user-friendly. I can't explain why, exactly, but to someone who is just comming in, not entirely active, or trying to return after an absense, everything here is rather difficult to get INVOLVED with.

It's true. The discusion in this Forum tends to be business-like, straight to the point, no beating round the bush. 95% (guesstimate) of the threads are directed at how to win the game - whether it's discussing the next move or longer term military, interior strategies.

But I like it. I know exactly where to go to get any information. If I have only 5 mins in a day to surf the net, like in the past few days when i was overwhelmed with work in RL, I will just read the Latest Turn summary thread.

However, as I am already familiar with the layout, I know exactly where to go to. For a newcomer, this will be rather difficuilt. F_P thread, and my earlier Historical Log post helps, but that's probably all the help the newcomer can get.

And so far, at least from my experience, the Consuls & the Ministers have all been very responsive in responding to any suggestion/question brought up. Not everybody can join the chats, so their responsiveness to suggestions is very encouraging.
Edited - to fix spelling error, as usual.

	30-08-2003 13:53									#23
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Thanks for the thumbs up rush. I try and I know that the other do also. The one thing I have been trying to do more of lately is bringing all discussion from chat into this forum as well, no matter how trivial, as long as they have something to do with the outcome of our turns.

	30-08-2003 16:00									#24
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Theseus has an EXCELLENT idea. A weekly report would be interesting. Kind of our own type of weekly news letter where we document all sorts of summaries about the game from the last week, be it diplomatic/military/economic.

I know Unortho wanted to do a newsletter quite awhile ago, but he is also active in many other forums and not sure how much time he has.

In all honesty, I would be willing to work with people and we can TRY to start putting something together, and do our best to make it weekly. It doesn't have to be super indepth, but will be designed for the casual reader to talk about what went on the last week, why we made some decisions we have and what we hope to accomplish. Just a general overview and guide.

Hell, we can even post various chat transcripts and quotes just for some extra flavor, since a lot does happen in the chat. In all honesty, if anyone is interested, let me know and we can set this up.

	30-08-2003 16:23									#25
	Draft Newletter Got spare money?

The following is just a quick draft that I'm whipping up at 4 AM when I should instead be in bed :P Please forgive its roughness.

--

The Weekly Jungle Gazette
(Yes, in honor of Unorthodox's work in the SPDG )

War preparations are being carried out in earnest across the Apolyton empire. Recent fierce debates have focused on whether or not we should use one of our galleys to risk on a suicide mission, for the goal of making contact with other civilizations. Some argue that if succesful, the rewards could be great, while others believe the galley could better be used on an assault of GCA.

Economics
After a recent switch to Republic, E_T has been working at a sleepless pace with our Consuls, as well as our minister of war Trip, to optimize our city output for the planned golden age.

Currently, the Apolyton empire is producing 37 gold per turn, with the money being used to upgrade many of our offensive units to Midieval Infantry, so that we may launch a crushing attack on GCA.

E_T has also noted that he would like to use the coming golden age to produce not only military units, but use the economic advantage we get to build domestic improvements, such as marketplaces, which will further increase our commercial output.

Also of note, is that we are currently second in the world with GNP and MFG (this could be wrong at the moment)...

Science
After amazing luck as well as a brilliant diplomatic feat, we were able to get Feudalism from the now extinct nation of CDG, saving us over 30 turns of research. We are currently researching Engineering (eh, I think? I forget at the moment, this is a draft anyway) and are researching it on a 40 turn pace so that we may horde as much gold as possible before the coming war.

Future research plans involve X (where X is, fill in possible discussions). Current research is being carried out by a scientist in the city of __________

Military
We are currently average compared to GCA, who appear to have a majority of their army south, fighting CFC. Current military numbers are _____________ (put in military numbers there and break it down.)

More military stuff goes here as well as news about the attack which will happen in roughly 10 turns.

Diplomacy
Recently worked out a border agreement with GCA, which we will have to soon break with our nearing attack. This was done to put GCA's fears at ease, so that we catch them completely by surprise.

Recent developments in the CFC-GCA war have also affected our war development, as it is quite possible CFC might not be able to hold out until our strike date. The diplomatic corps is wording a strong letter to GCA to negotiate peace, if anything, to buy CFC some time before we attack.

Domestic News
One of the biggest issues of the ISDG here at Apolyton is the issue of electing Consuls. Most of the contentious issues regarding this controversial subject have finally been resolved, and a bill is currently being drafted on the matter.

The Chat Room
Much discussion has happened in chat recently. Notable events include:

*MrWIA and E_T discussing worker optimizations.
*BigFree's list of sexual conquests
*The usual Trip-Togas turf wars:
[Trip] Togas, you stink! And I bet you don't know how to use a sword!
[Togas] What? Listen, violence isn't the answer punk. This is probably why you are single. Words are the way to a woman's heart...
[Trip] Bah. A sword makes it easier to get to one's heart than a mouth does.

And lastly...
Ask the Gazette
This is for questions to the Gazette that we will try to answer. That's right folks, we get to the BOTTOM of the details. Ask us anything, we promise to keep your name anonymous.

Our first question:
Why is WhiteBandit so sexy?
Well, he has to thank his mother for his amazing good looks. But honestly, looks aren't everything. You probably find him sexy for his charismatic personality and amazing sense of humor.

How old is NYE? He's been a Consul for... well, forever.
Aye. It isn't exactly known. We would say older than dirt, but the age of dirt is rather variable. We believe he is in his late 30's, but judging from his HotorNot picture, you wouldn't think he's a day older then 26.

---

Well, add some pictures, graphics. Slightly more in depth detail (i.e., perhaps an editor of each section??) Get Aro in on this with the weekly political cartoon and I think we have ourselves a FINE way of giving even the casual viewers some up to date information.

In anycase, hopefully we can work this thing out. Let me know

	30-08-2003 17:18									#26
	Inflate your Upload Space

The following is a prepared statement by one of MrWhereItsAt's office.

"That was horrible. There is no benefit to be had from that type of post." If he were conscious, we are certain that MrWhereItsAt would say these words. Unfortunately he passed out immediately after reading said post, with a blissful smile upon his face. Efforts to revive him have failed, and he seems to be reciting the exact words of that post over and over. If we did not all know better, it would almost seem as if he found that post perfect.

Thank you.


My God - WB. How long did that little piece of heaven take you?

	30-08-2003 17:21									#27
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Excellent!!

I can't wait till we research X!!

	30-08-2003 18:17									#28
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt My God - WB. How long did that little piece of heaven take you?

Started at 4:04AM, posted at 4:23AM... 19 minutes

	30-08-2003 22:14									#29
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Very cool WB.

	31-08-2003 05:02									#30
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As another lurker, I would appreciate a “paper” too. Not in great detail, but something in the style of Apolyton Today. I can follow the city summary and the maps, though the unit summary is too involved for me to follow. And yes, I do know that we’re planning a war. I miss the early early days with the role-play, but I can see it’s either that or playing a serious game

What is missing is a regular summary of foreign news we receive. If there is no paper, this should be added to the turn pages. If CFC/China tells us something about their war, it would be nice to have a place I can go to in order to be sure of reading about it.

Apolyton Today should not forget a Hollywood page so we can all read the chat about BigFree’s list of sexual conquests