30-08-2003 00:55									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar And yet again, how can one dismiss the entire list EVEN if I am wrong

Because including Proxies is stupid.

	30-08-2003 01:59									#93
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Also you aren't really interested in a debate so why bother putting the work into it.

	30-08-2003 02:00									#94
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Also you aren't really interested in a debate so why bother putting the work into it.

0/10

	30-08-2003 02:13									#95
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Because including Proxies is stupid.

If I pay you to kil somene and you do it, I am just as guilt of murder as if I had done it myself. If the US pays a gang of thugs to overthrow their own government, the U.S. is just as guilty as if it had invaded on its own.

	30-08-2003 02:16									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson Some of Iraqi opposition were very pleased to see someone enter Iraq as well.

The Iraqi opposition was not the government. Those who nvited the Soviets into Afganistan were the goverment. Don't compare apples and cinder blocks.

	30-08-2003 02:22									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Link? I seem to recall reading about the US refusing to recognize the annexation and protesting. Further the US backed Australia when Australia said it would go to war with Indonesia if they attempted their threatened invasion of Papua New Gunea shortly after.

Australia is a closer ally than Indonesia.

Anyway, what refusal to recongize annexation? The US recognized the annexations of both East Timor and West Papua.

quote: Do you recall how the Indonesias paid for a dozen F-15 about 15 years ago but how Congress has refused to export them to Indonesia due to their poor human rights record? Everyone's ignoring your list because of things like this. We're not taking it seriously.

What the US did in 1975 and what it did in 1988 are different things. In 1975, Kissinger and Ford gave Suharto the green light to invade East Timor. In fact, it happened the day after those two left Indonesia. Jump twnety years in the future, and Indonesia's slaughter of 1/3 of the former nation's population has finally made such a stink that Congress bans the US from giving Indonesia any military aid what so ever . . . so no f-15s. However, the Clinton Administration (and they probably weren't the only ones), allowed Indonesian military officers to secretly come to the US to take classes. It was rather the scandal at the college where it was discovered going on.

	30-08-2003 02:28									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Washington Times. Consider the source. -Arrian

The Washington Times is owned by Rev. Moon and is far-right wing. Moon claimed he's the messiah, his fulltime followers get about 4 hours of sleep a night, he marries total strangers a thousand a time,his hatred of N.Korea in his "Devine Principle" looks like he was trying to raise his own private invasion force, a friend who was with them told me most of the members he talked to said they'd pick up a gun for him, and in the recruitment film, his "preaching" he displayed hate in the quantity I've only seen in Hitler's speeches.

	30-08-2003 02:29									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar 0/10

I'm not trolling. You aren't interested in a discussion so why should I bother encouraging you.

	30-08-2003 03:22									#101
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I'm not trolling. You aren't interested in a discussion so why should I bother encouraging you.

DD, it really is not my fault if you cannot get facts to back up your position. Your trolling attempt has failed and you cannot refute my evidence.
I suggest that unless you actually wish to debate the subject, you gracefully bow out.

And I'm still waiting for a conservative to tackle this head on. I provide a list, and two cons say that the US was never involved with East Timor and therefore the rest of the list is wrong. I give no less than 12 links proving otherwise.
Then all I get is "Well...Proxies don't count" and "Hey, you don't wanna debate". Therefore, I will take this as an admission of defeat from the neocons on the board as none of them have been able to logically back their claims.

quote: Because including Proxies is stupid.

Speaking of which, by that logic...The Soviet Union controlled nothing outside of its borders and each of those communist governments in Eastern Europe acted of their own free will.
Just another pathetic attempt at salvaging their jingoistic spirit in the face of total failure.

	30-08-2003 03:47									#102
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I think you need to read that again, chum.

	30-08-2003 03:49									#103
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I think you need to read that again, chum.

Quoted the wrong person. Sorry.

	30-08-2003 05:22									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar And I'm still waiting for a conservative to tackle this head on. I provide a list,

I'll tell you why no one is taking your list seriously. First the way you posted it might as well have had the word troll in big bold letters before and after it. This isn't going to get much of a response normally if the topic isn't interesting. After this you whine and moan that no one is responding to your list like some attention starved little child. This further reduces any chance you had of getting a serious response. Now you are reduced to posting smilies and cute troll ratings in order to get the attention you seek.

	30-08-2003 07:14									#105
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I'll tell you why no one is taking your list seriously. First the way you posted it might as well have had the word troll in big bold letters before and after it. This isn't going to get much of a response normally if the topic isn't interesting. After this you whine and moan that no one is responding to your list like some attention starved little child. This further reduces any chance you had of getting a serious response. Now you are reduced to posting smilies and cute troll ratings in order to get the attention you seek.

Well well well, a bit angry are we?
I'm going to stop my trolling before I get banned.

	31-08-2003 00:49									#106
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara The Iraqi opposition was not the government. Those who nvited the Soviets into Afganistan were the goverment. Don't compare apples and cinder blocks.

Why not? What is the legitimate ruler is a matter of discussion.

	01-09-2003 02:07									#107
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara The Soviets were invited in to Afganistan, so it doesn't count as an invasion.

You mean by the unrecognized except by the USSR and it's proxies "government" that was still in the USSR while it's street thugs that had just launched a coup with KGB support had just taken over? And those conveniently prepositioned Soviet forces (this from the army that took months to set up any major force deployment) just happened to be in the neighborhood (with logistics bases and supplies already set up and ready to go) to answer the call of fraternal socialism?

quote: Well, that candle is kinda more like a holocaust. The United States has invaded, intervened in, or overthrown approximately seven times the number of countries the USSR has, and that's just from 1945 - 1991.

If you take Afghanistan as an example of "invited in, so it doesn't count as an invasion" then you can use the same criteria to scratch virtually every foreign action by US forces, because we were always there at somebody's invitation.

And most of the countries we were ****ing around with had a little KGB or Soviet proxy state inspired action going on.

At least be consistent in the standards you apply to both countries' cold war actions.

Or go back to Russia where you come from!

	01-09-2003 02:23									#108
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Can you show me on a map where Russia borders Iraq so that they could sneak those WMDs over the border?

I beleive the story said the plan was that the Iraqi burn the chemical weapons and bury their microfiched plans in cannisters for later reconstruction. I don't know if the Russians were involved, but there are reports that the Iraqi's did burn their chemcial weapons just prior to the attack.

	01-09-2003 06:05									#109
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quote: I beleive the story said the plan was that the Iraqi burn the chemical weapons and bury their microfiched plans in cannisters for later reconstruction. I don't know if the Russians were involved, but there are reports that the Iraqi's did burn their chemcial weapons just prior to the attack.

So this is the new jingohawk theory? Any proof?

	01-09-2003 06:36									#110
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quote: UKRAINE- free willingly joined Russia in 1654, not to mention that we were one state 1000 years ago.

Hey hey hey.

I'm not 100% sure, but from my recollection of history, this is a gross dishonesty.

Yes, Ukraine was first. Infact the grand kingdom of Kiiv (aka Kiev) was first, and regional power only later moved to the north to Moscow and St. Petersburg.

But Ukraine later was harrassed a whole lot by both Russia and Poland.

	01-09-2003 08:12									#111
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat At least be consistent in the standards you apply to both countries' cold war actions.

But if they did that then they'd be honest and fair. We all know those are the two things which communists have the most difficulties doing.

	01-09-2003 09:01									#112
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I suppose no one who has taken a basic chemistry course or made cheap drugs in their bathtub is planning to let all others know that you can COMPLETELY dispose of chemical/bio weapons and turn/mash trace element to trace element to trace element to talcum powder to PRETTY MUCH ANY F*CKING CHEMICAL COMPOUND ON THE PLANET with high tech gadgetry such as a mixing bowl, pound of salt, and/or "heat"

SORRY FOR THE RUN-ON SENTENCE, IT'S JUST THAT I'VE BEEN RENDERED "MY MOTHER IS MY SISTER" STUPID BY NOT CONSIDERING SUCH A MAGICAL PRACTISE AND RATHER ALL THE WHILE ACCEPTING MY OWN QUICK DEFINITION THAT "DISSAPEAR" UNDOUBTEDLY MEANS OR ALWAYS SUGGESTS "CROSS IRAQI BORDERS AND PLAY HIDE & SEEK"

	01-09-2003 09:02									#113
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AAAAPPGYPGYIGP;GUI;;GYIG;YI

	01-09-2003 09:03									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin But if they did that then they'd be honest and fair. We all know those are the two things which communists have the most difficulties doing.

This man agrees with YOU!