29-08-2003 16:58									#1
	POLL : race picks (next one) Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Whatever I was thinking of, I wasn't able to find anything good, so let's do it this way:

We have the following picks to be decided upon:

1. Dictatorship / 0 (Government type)
   
2. Feudal / -4 (Government type)
   
3. Uni / +6 (Government type)
   
   
4. Tolerant / +10
   
5. Repulsive / -6
   
6. Creative / +8
   
7. Production +2 / +6
   
8. Production +1 / +3
   
9. Omniscient / +3
   
10. Artifact HW / +3(?)
    
11. Large HW / +1
    
12. Science+2 / +6
    
13. Subterran / +6
    
14. Aquatic / +5(?)
    
15. -20& Ship def / -2
    
16. Warlord / +4
    

	29-08-2003 16:59									#2
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spared for results.

Come on guys !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	29-08-2003 17:31									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

Feudal, Repulsive, Creative, Science+2, Artifact HW, Production+1

	29-08-2003 17:33									#4
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Harry,

feel ashamed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just poll the letters and not the names. (i.e. A+D+E+O)

	29-08-2003 20:42									#5
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C+F+M+E+O+R

As posted elsewhere, the Unified Creative Subbies that are Repulsive & don't defend well in space nor fight well on the ground. (where R is "other or not listed above")

6+8+6-6-2-2 = 10, check.

	29-08-2003 22:32									#6
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C E F M O and -gc which doesn't have a letter.

	29-08-2003 22:33									#7
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and oldnslow, whats Q supposed to be since you skipped it? :P

	29-08-2003 22:56									#8
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Reading is fundamental.

B E F H J L

	30-08-2003 11:48									#9
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A F J N

	02-09-2003 18:13									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

Is this everyone?

	02-09-2003 18:29									#11
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A F for sure, rest don't really care that much (don't really care for repulsive but that is just me perhaps)...

	02-09-2003 20:12									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha and oldnslow, whats Q supposed to be since you skipped it? :P

Q is for quick in that someone else could have slipped in a 'banana' option.

	04-09-2003 20:28									#13
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From the posts I can see that everyone voted for "F" and it is obvious that we all agree to play creative.

The government is tied though. May be we need a new poll that must be only about it. In the first pol we had 50 Dictatorship 40 Unification 30 Feudal; Here we have 2 votes for Dictatorship, 2 for Unification and one for feudal.
IMO Dictatorship will be more efficient with creative because of the morale - in the end of the game Dictatorships have +100% to everything (Food, Industry, Science, Money) from morale, and Unification cannot benefit from it. The +6 picks that can be saved this way should be used to compensate the slow creative race start. What shall we do?

	04-09-2003 23:27									#14
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How do the rest of the picks match out? Since Uni is a +6 pick we wouldn't be able to choose it if the pick deficit was too high.

	05-09-2003 11:57									#15
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For the rest of the picks (the positive ones) I would choose:

-Artifacts Homeworld (3)
-Large Homeworld (1)
-Aquatic (5)
-Science +1 (3) Note: in average tech game may be I can switch this for +1 prod

This is +20 with the creative. Remains to pick 10 negatives. Usually I do not pick repulsive because I think it repulses the leaders and makes them cost more.
Usually I would go with Low Gravity, -Spying & -Def or Att. Low gravity is not a big pain because I tend to build only a few colonies from my race. But if you guys insist to be Repulsive I won't mind :-)

	05-09-2003 17:48									#16
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I've never played repulsive before but I'd like to try it. Low gravity isn't that bad either imho but that could be the psilon in me. I'm a little leary of taking a negative bonus on defense on impossible.

	05-09-2003 19:10									#17
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The bad side of Repulsive is that it is -6 and the only reasonable option to fll up to -10 is -Att and -Def and this is not good enough either. Repulsive is better if we play a 19 picks race with Repulsive and -Spying for example.

	05-09-2003 19:15									#18
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And, hehe, I NEVER lost on impossible with the above race - even from the worst possible position :-)

	05-09-2003 19:37									#19
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Well then I bow to your expertise. I guess we'll give everyone else a chance to respond. This is it, right? After this we should be ready to start the game? I fear if we take too much longer people will start bailing out, if they haven't already.

	05-09-2003 19:50									#20
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It makes no real difference to me, I have played about every combo possible. Just for the record, LowG is a 25% hit. This is painful as most planets are not LowG.
Take a look at a Ultra Rich with most of the 2000RP tech structures in place, but production of ships is still slow.
Get the grave gen built and now it can do a much better job of building things.
My only point is that Lowg does have an impact. Replusive has a low impact and none for players that do not trade or demand. I use -SD and -GC with it. You don't need the defense and weaker troops can be offset by better tech or more troops or bombing.

	05-09-2003 20:07									#21
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Oops I forgot the -Ground Combat. Repulsive goes ok with it for 20 picks races.

But anyway VMXA, you think like a settler :P "I do not want low gravity because I wont be able to settle many planets".
The low gravity matches the proper opinion of a conquerror - "I don't care about low gravity because I will live on only a few worlds and everyone else will be my slave".

The tech that removes the gravity penalty is not too high in the tech tree, but from my experience I am never eager to research it even if I am playing with a low gravity race. Everything depends on the style of play.

	05-09-2003 20:10									#22
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With repulsive you rarely are getting a good leader, and if you happen to get, his price will be so high that it will be almost no cost efficient to hire him/her.
There is another good aspect of not being repulsive - the AI agrees with the "Stop spying" option most of the time and you can make some profit from trading with the races you are not currently at war.

Repulsive is best for MP, and if we decide to pick it we'll have to fire the foreign affairs minister because there will be no work for him :P

	05-09-2003 20:40									#23
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I think that repulsive also works for our first Demo game in that it simplifies a whole arena of potential decisions.

The -6 works easily with the -2 GC and -2SD, where the SD is less critical in that we always fire first.

I thought we were settled on Subby as well as creative (?).

	05-09-2003 23:10									#24
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quote: Originally posted by bakalov But anyway VMXA, you think like a settler :P "I do not want low gravity because I wont be able to settle many planets". The low gravity matches the proper opinion of a conquerror - "I don't care about low gravity because I will live on only a few worlds and everyone else will be my slave".

Yup and your point is what? Both are valid ways to play the game. If you are playing an SP game there is no need to be a conquer as there is no hurry to win the game.

	05-09-2003 23:15									#25
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quote: Originally posted by bakalov With repulsive you rarely are getting a good leader, and if you happen to get, his price will be so high that it will be almost no cost efficient to hire him/her. There is another good aspect of not being repulsive - the AI agrees with the "Stop spying" option most of the time and you can make some profit from trading with the races you are not currently at war. Repulsive is best for MP, and if we decide to pick it we'll have to fire the foreign affairs minister because there will be no work for him :P

I agree and that is why I often use it. I do not want to extort the AI and I don't want to bother trading. I am not saying there is anything wrong with those things, I just do not care for that aspect, so I leave it out. I get a bonus in that the AI wil not be contacting me all the time.
Well ok, I do think there is something wrong with the ease of demanding things from the AI, it is just too easy.
This could have been fun and satisfying if it was a rare event. As it is now the AI will give you anything you want most of the time.

	06-09-2003 00:58									#26
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It's shocking how easy it is to get systems from the AI, especially the more powerful you get. I've never tried repulsive and would like to give it a shot.

	08-09-2003 12:39									#27
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ok, I agree with repulsive. The other negatives obviously should be -ground combat (no doubt!) and one of (-attack, -defence). We only have to decide which one of the both.

	08-09-2003 23:26									#28
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The best defence is a good offence, in my opinion.

	09-09-2003 00:38									#29
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Ditto -- especially when one gets to fire first.

	09-09-2003 01:43									#30
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we are using -ship defense. Ship attack matters to initiative.