30-08-2003 04:45									#1
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Affirmative action for girls?

	30-08-2003 04:50									#3
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It's not about equality. It's about total domination.

	30-08-2003 05:02									#4
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ah, let the girls take over. means THEY have to goto work to keep US, THEY have to sort the spiders out, all we need to do is keep the house clean. THEY still even have to have babies (poor girls)

	30-08-2003 06:00									#5
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quote: Last April, when Kenneth Dragseth, superintendent of schools in Edina, Minn., presented a paper describing his district's gender gap at the American Educational Research Association's annual meeting in Chicago, he says the reception ranged from chilly to hostile. Female education researchers in the audience questioned whether helping boys would mean hurting girls.

Right, because educating the genders is a zero sum game.

	30-08-2003 06:20									#6
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From my experience with my daughter and her friends from first through tenth grades, now going into eleventh, the gap is largely one of work ethic and attitude, even in the same family. The kids who do the best (and yeah, a majority are girls) get into their homework before they do their own fun stuff, and they consistently spend more time studying and working their asses off.

The relatively few boys who equal or exceed their performance generally work as hard as the girls.

The kids (of both genders) who don't do as well generally, but not exclusively, don't put the effort in.

Whatever the "real" situation is, you have to adjust for individual work effort -- I've spent the last ten years watching the difference with a decent sized group of kids.

	30-08-2003 06:20									#7
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quote: Female education researchers in the audience questioned whether helping boys would mean hurting girls.

These kind of bullshitters are (part of) what's wrong with America. I hope their little ****er asses get deported to North Korea.

All gals had to do was clean the place, cook dinner, and they got to ***** all over their husband while doing it! But no, they want more...I mean, I'm all for womens' equality, but we have had that. Women today want power, and it makes me sick.

	30-08-2003 06:21									#8
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell These kind of bullshitters are (part of) what's wrong with America. I hope their little ****er asses get deported to North Korea. All gals had to do was clean the place, cook dinner, and they got to ***** all over their husband while doing it! But no, they want more...I mean, I'm all for womens' equality, but we have had that. Women today want power, and it makes me sick.

As opposed to "men" having power since the beginning of the species?

	30-08-2003 06:26									#9
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Mike, Boys and girls will put in the effort if there is someone around to watch them and make them do as they are told.

	30-08-2003 06:27									#10
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat As opposed to "men" having power since the beginning of the species?

Actually... some anthropologists think that male dominance didn't arise until the domestication of animals. Older archeological evidence suggests that among primitive humans, females tended to be the power holders, since they bore the kids. There wasn't a widespread concept that men had anything to do with children being there. That changed when men began herding sheep and cattle. They quickly put two and two together and realized the male was needed for breeding. So in addition to the rise of the concept of property, men now began to assert ownership of women, since men could now show that not only were they bigger and stronger, but they were just as vital to the continuation of the species.

Another theory is that it was the rise of the alphabets that switched societies from matriarchal to patriarchal. Something about alphabets is much more suited to the male brain than the female brain, so societies that developed them saw a surge in male dominance.

	30-08-2003 06:29									#11
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Eh. Sorry if I appear more sexist than I should be, I get mad (like anyone should) when I read things like the quote I had.

It's my opinion that you can't give reparations on transgressions that have happened to people in the past. Doing so creates things like the Egyptians suing for their gold back. What is the statute of limitations of this? How much do they want? It's not possible to represent your ancestors in a court of law, as it's just as likely that they would have wanted you to grow out on your own being an equal in your own time, rather than gaining additional power that you didn't earn and instead took it off your grandpa's back, so to speak.

Thus, power and reparations are not what we as a nation should aim for. Equality is the goal of these movements. Every person should be equal, and should not be forced to pay debts of their ancestors, nor recieve credits to their ancestors.

Again, sorry for being so immediately jackassed. It just "burns me up" to think people actually believe that kind of thing.

	30-08-2003 06:31									#12
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And, by the way, there were several ancient societies (and even lasting into the midieval ages) that had female leaders. I hate to say exactly what my great enemies, the feminazis, say, but you could call male rule a European invention.

	30-08-2003 07:16									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Actually... some anthropologists think that male dominance didn't arise until the domestication of animals. Older archeological evidence suggests that among primitive humans, females tended to be the power holders, since they bore the kids. There wasn't a widespread concept that men had anything to do with children being there. That changed when men began herding sheep and cattle. They quickly put two and two together and realized the male was needed for breeding. So in addition to the rise of the concept of property, men now began to assert ownership of women, since men could now show that not only were they bigger and stronger, but they were just as vital to the continuation of the species. Another theory is that it was the rise of the alphabets that switched societies from matriarchal to patriarchal. Something about alphabets is much more suited to the male brain than the female brain, so societies that developed them saw a surge in male dominance.

and the evidence for this is in:

a) chimps
b) gorillas
c) orangs

or, and I suggest you pick this one

d) none of the above, the anthropologists were just after column inches and/or funding

	30-08-2003 08:40									#14
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I posted on this some time back and have added to this thread with another. Again we go back to the sexes are different and funding. A balance will happen but without damage? Not likely, Micheal, girls and boys are different, learn different etc...

Micheal what was the last book your teacher had her read? Was it godzzila vs he man? Or was it snow white?

Dig in before you answer because I think you are absorbed in your moment...

If the teacher asked your daughter the do an essay on GI joe would she be interested? Would she do it just to get marks? Would she get good marks? Would she come home ready to study GI Joe? How long would GI-JOE hold her interest?

Now if your teacher geared the program towards fem interest's your daughter has a passing mark///

What about the boys? I think you dismiss this way too fast.

Or should he be outside killing ants until the teacher explains an ants life? All the social, defence, structure, animalistic, gathering, domineering, nurturing, organized and other wise interesting on topic of interest to boys aspect of and ants life. In such a way that boys understand and learn from thier teachings?
Of course we could say the seven dwarfs were vile right?

No that is not my single opinion do some reading on the subject.

Now if a boy can not sit still while we talk about snow white should he be medicated? If we talk about GI-JOE would he get excited? Is that normal? Do we medicate him for being male? If he likes snow white is he gay?
Any parent knows this is wrong, boys and girls are different and have different interest's. To medicate one because they do not conform to the standards of the other is abuse... Or to medicate them because they do conform and or call them gay is abuse....Period...

It shows social engineering has swung way to far to the right.

You decide...

Last edited by blackice on 30-08-2003 at 08:54

	30-08-2003 09:56									#15
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Actually, a few advanced cultures, like the Minoans, we female dominated. There is evidence that the female ruler's consort was SACRIFICED! I think the reason that most societies are patriarchal was because warlike people were usually male domminated and peaceful peoples, such as the minoans, tend to be peaceful. the peaceful people were conquered by the warlike ones. The Proto-Indo-Europeans were extremely male dominated they worshiped a supreme male diety asocciated with the sky and thunder, called Dyeus Paeter (Sky Father). The name evolved into Zeus, Jupiter, and Odin, among others, and all the desended cultures stayed patriarchal. Where ever they settled, the Indo-Europeans put thier sky god as the leader of the polythiestic religion of the people they conquered.

Anyway, classrooms makes boys stay still for tool long, this isn't a psycological problem, it is boys being boys. The teachers are just too lasy and underpaid to take it in stride; also, most elementary teacher are women.

	30-08-2003 09:56									#16
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My teaching experience is that boys need fun. They aren't going to just settle down and write. You have to grab them, throw them around, chop some heads off.

	30-08-2003 15:53									#17
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The linked article says: "In 12th grade, 44% of girls rate as proficient readers on federal tests, compared with 28% of boys."

Seems to me the question isn't should more be done for boys, but rather that the US needs to do more for all students.

	30-08-2003 15:57									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Actually... some anthropologists think that male dominance didn't arise until the domestication of animals. Older archeological evidence suggests that among primitive humans, females tended to be the power holders, since they bore the kids. There wasn't a widespread concept that men had anything to do with children being there. That changed when men began herding sheep and cattle. They quickly put two and two together and realized the male was needed for breeding.

An interesting theory but there have been lots of hunter-gather societies where everyone seemed to understand the link between sex and procreation.

	30-08-2003 18:10									#19
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I think a huge issue is the lack of male teachers. I would be interested to see what percentage of teachers giving boys ritalin are male teachers. I doubt women teachers are as confortable with boys as they are with girls, and I see this as normal: after all, it is harder for a Female adult to bond with a male child than with a female child (which is why more mothers want girls and more fathers want boys in a general sense). So when female teachers are confronted with boys not behaving like girls, they are not as willing or able to sympathize or understand the situation of the boys. We need more male teachers (also why we need more single sex academic classes).

	30-08-2003 20:49									#20
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever and the evidence for this is in: a) chimps b) gorillas c) orangs or, and I suggest you pick this one d) none of the above, the anthropologists were just after column inches and/or funding

It actually holds true for C. Adult male orangs are roaming loners who take part in little prolonged social action in groups.

What's more, in chimps and bonobos, a male's status is heavily influenced by his standing with the senior females, particularly in his developing years.

	30-08-2003 21:17									#21
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat From my experience with my daughter and her friends from first through tenth grades, now going into eleventh, the gap is largely one of work ethic and attitude,

I always noticed that in my school experiences too. Girls do the work, just that simple. (My class Vlassicdictrolium was also girl.)

In some cases, because boys that are 'too academic' are labeled nerds, they try to be successful in school by other means (sports, shop, etc.).

I too think the lack of male teachers influences male students in how much effort they put in.

	30-08-2003 21:20									#22
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its in western societies treatment of boys and girls.

Boys should be rough and playing in the mud, reading? thats for girls!

Its all in the upbrining.

	30-08-2003 21:30									#23
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The biggest reason for the gap IMO is what they are encouraged to do. Girls are encouraged to do well in school, and many of the girls that are high on the social ladder also happen to be smart. But with boys, they are encouraged to be big and strong and to tackle people hard. Ask any guy which he would rather be: a nerd or a jock. They'd all say jock even though it is the nerds who will end up doing better.

Another thing is boys are put in school too early. They mature slower than girls but are still put in school at the same age. But I have read a lot of research that shows that boys should wait an extra year to go into kindergarten. I went in late, I went into kindergarten when I was 6 along with several of my friends who were also 6 and I think it worked out very well, we all do well in school. Especially me.

I agree with GePap though. We need more of a gender balance in teachers. The thing is, the gender gap in teacher's is most apparent in the younger grades, and that is when the child's development is crucial.

From preschool on up I did not have a male teacher until 6th grade. And at the schools I went to, one didn't have any male teachers until about 6th grade, the next one (it was very small though) didn't have any male teachers, and the one after that, and elementary school K-5 grades with two classes per grade had two male teachers in the entire school. But now that I am in high school the gender balance in teachers seems OK, but for some kids it is too late.

And don't forget that while girls are encouraged to do whatever they want, boys are forced to do whatever is masculine. If they don't they are either a)forced to change their behavior at an early age, which definitely will cause problems for them, b)they are given ritalin and that causes problems for them, or c) they act their feministic self but are labeled gay and ostracized by society.

	30-08-2003 21:30									#24
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If that is so, why do girls still work harder in college, where there are more male professors?

	30-08-2003 21:36									#25
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Well, I know at my school (which is a science and tech magnet) its something like 40% girls and 60% boys.

	30-08-2003 21:39									#26
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Good question, smiley but don't think for a second you have proved me wrong...yet. It is because once the girls are in college, they have already defined who they are and their work habits, personality, etc. is already there. They have developed.

But, a lot of this development is in the early years, and in the early years what molds a child is very crucial. There aren't many male teachers, and the boys suffer for it early on and the damage is done. They aren't as proficient later on in life.

	30-08-2003 21:41									#27
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But most importanly, by the time people are in college, teachers don't influence their development very much.

	30-08-2003 21:44									#28
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GePap, the problem with same-sex schools is that first, maybe it is a bad idea for guys to only have male teachers. I believe it is better for them to have male teachers then female teachers, but it is good to have both. Also, they will have very poor social skills with the opposite sex.

	30-08-2003 21:46									#29
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I never went to a same-sex school, and I still have poor social skills with the opposite sex

	30-08-2003 21:46									#30
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I'm a white male from middle class, being provided since little kid, did what I wanted as hobbies. Never got into trouble because of the skin of my colour, or my gender.
I've done nothing to hurt other ethnicities, or women or animals. And I don't feel like paying for, what some people did god knows when and where. I don't support quotas of any kind. That's racist or what ever you like to call it. I've heard it many times 'you say/do that because I'm a woman' 'it's because I'm a woman'.. etc etc. I got a message for you amazonian feminist lesbian butch women supremacist delusional racist creeps: Go cry somewhere else!

Here, they cry (I don't talk about women in general, but these damn cave women) that it's so wrong that men hold more high positions than women, it should be 50/50 or more women than men. Well look at the paper, we have woman president, and we had woman PM as well, until she got kicked out after being lying cheater. So nothing is enough for these hooligans. They'd start beating us in the streets if they could. People who use these as an accuse, because they can't accomplish something is weak. It's usually because they are not good enough in todays world, at least in this country.
I'm against men treating women badly, but say that mantra to me and I'll leave you hanging there alone.

I'm a man and proud of it. I want a family, and I want to provide to it. Woman can be independent, but she better leave that crap to someone else, because I'm not listening. She can do what she wants, she doesn't have to make babies, food and sex only. But I'm still the man in that house, and that's the way it is. If she wants something else, she can marry a fellow lesbian or someone who likes to be bossed around.

What a long rant, huh? Where can I buy those No Ma'am shirts? I feel like I need one! Let's go guys, let's GO!

And next time a woman asks you if she looks fat, just say:

- No, and quit asking about it.
- Yes, lose some weight.
- Yes, but I still love you, so don't worry about it.