01-09-2003 00:52									#1
	Red Wine Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Even more research coming out saying how healthy it is. I've even heard that drinking red wine can increase you life span similiar to caloric restriction can. Some amazing stuff. I'm mainly thinking about drinking it for health reasons. And I heard that wines that "struggle" more in less than pristine conditions have even more health effects. Wines from countries like Spain that get less water. I hear they taste good as well.

I do like white wine. But red wine has always seemed too dry for me. I drank some for the first time when I was in Italy and I didn't like it at all. But maybe because things in Italy just don't taste that good in general. . It's funny that Italian food in Italy just didn't taste as good as Italian food in the U.S. Their food is more bland over there, I was wondering if the wine is that way too.

So I'm wondering if there are any good tasting red wines.

And do I figure out a good wine to buy? What's a good price to pay? Does wine have to be refrigerated? Or just chilled prior to serving?

	01-09-2003 01:23									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

It depends on your own personal taste. I like mainly French red veritals though they are now grown world wide and you can find examples of these grapes grown in all wine producing countries.

	01-09-2003 01:24									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

come on!

surely some of you weenies drink something besides Zima . Or Smirnoff Ice

	01-09-2003 01:24									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well, right now I'm drinking some Bass ale .

	01-09-2003 01:26									#5
	Remove this text

From demystifying-wine.com

quote: Wine producers worldwide are constantly developing reds that are smoother, more rounded and juicier. Styles range from light and refreshing to sweet and fortified. Enjoy a full-flavoured, intense, black-currant red produced from the Cabernet Sauvignon grape. Looking for a silkier, more mellow experience? The delicious cherry and raspberry flavours of the Pinot Noir grape rarely disappoint. For a juicy, modern style red, look no further than some of the excellent New World wines. Fancy something spicier? Plump for a deep, rich, full-bodied red made from the Syrah/Shiraz grape.

They don't mention two of my favorite reds. The Merlot and the Zinfandel. Argentine Malbec can be good but you have to sort through a lot of low quality wines to find the gems also Spanish Rioja can be good. There's another red Spanish wine which I can't recall right now that I've liked when ever I've tried it. It's known as the Cabernet of Spain.

	01-09-2003 01:32									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Try Pindar's Mythology or Pythagoras wines. Mythology can be pricey ($35 and up), but the Pythagoras is much more reasonably priced. Mythology is considered by many conniseuers (sp?) to be one of the best red wines. Among my friends, while acknowledging the quality of Mythology, they prefer the taste of the Pythagoras. My ex-wife has an extremely sophisticated sense of taste (able to detect hints of berry, chocolate, whatever in wines) and she prefers the Pythagoras too.

It all tastes like to dirt to me. I prefer the whites (particularly Paumanok Vineyards Rieslings). Pindar and Paumanok are Long Island vineyards, BTW, 'bout an hour from my home.

	01-09-2003 01:53									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

If I have a couple of bottles I get the hangover from Hell ALL the next day

	01-09-2003 01:55									#8
	Got spare money?

It depends on which wine you drink. Some have more kick then others and some have lower quality fermintation then others (mean more headaches in the morning).

	01-09-2003 02:06									#9
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I once stole a bottle of Communion wine to go with a big box of body of Christ. They're pretty good with gefilte fish.

I turned the body of Christ into lechaim and fishballs and got drunk on communion wine. Is that illegal?

I'm not Catholic or anything. I'm Buddhist. According to my religion, no one gives a poo.

	01-09-2003 02:31									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Oerdin's passage is pretty good. The 'Cabernet of Spain' is probably Ribero Del Duero, which is a northern region, known for a spicier, bigger wine. Uses the Temprenillo grape a lot IIRC.

Merlot started as French grape, but is available in most red wine producing nations now. Zinfandel is California, but there are South Afircan and Australian versions now.

Personally, I prefer French Reds, especially St. Emillion Bordeaux, which is mostly Merlot, Burgundies, which arev a little lighter, and Southern Rhone's (like Chatauneuf du Pape) which are big and beefy, made from the Syrah grape.

As for chilling, with red wine it's a big no Red wine should be served at room temperature, with the exception of Beaujolais, which should be slightly chilled. Preferably leave it to breathe (take the cork out) about 15 mins before serving, though I never taste much difference.

Italian wine is an aquired taste. It is very good generally, but they have many of their own grapes (such as Barollo) which means they are a little different to most other places. If you liek wines that are in your face, try New World wines from Aus, SA or California. Many Southern American ones are very good too, and the prices are very reasonable. I just had a Chilean Cabernet/Malbec that was great If you liek them more complex or subtle, try French ones. However may cost more in the US. For Californian ones, I can recommend Ironstone from Sonoma, and Heintz cellars from the Napa Valley. I haven't had too many US wines though, as they're really overpriced here (and there actually, I can't imagine paying mroe than £5 (about $8) for a simple, decent wine, but I couldn't find anything decent for that over there ).

This is a just a little snippet, there's so much out there about red wine. If you want some specific advise, just PM me.

Last edited by Drogue on 01-09-2003 at 02:42

	01-09-2003 04:09									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Drogue Oerdin's passage is pretty good.

	01-09-2003 04:22									#12
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Drogue Oerdin's passage is pretty good. The 'Cabernet of Spain' is probably Ribero Del Duero, which is a northern region, known for a spicier, bigger wine. Uses the Temprenillo grape a lot IIRC.[quote] Neither of those ring a bell. I'll have to go to the local Tapas bar and check out their wine list again. [quote] Zinfandel is California, but there are South Afircan and Australian versions now.

I had an Australia Zin last week which was really quite good. We drink alot of Zin here in California so that's high praise.

quote: Italian wine is an aquired taste.

I'll agree there. I have yet to fall in love with any Italian veritals. Chianti and Sangiovese are both sort of blah in my opinion but somebody most like them. Pinot Grigio (an Italian white) can be good though.

quote: If you liek wines that are in your face, try New World wines from Aus, SA or California. Many Southern American ones are very good too, and the prices are very reasonable.

Newbies will want to stick with new world wines because they will come ready to drink or will have to be aged for only a few years, where as, most old world wines most be aged for several years before they become drinkable. Don't waste money buying and celloring wines. First figure out what you like and then worry about celloring. Try checking out the Wine Spectator for some suggestions on which ones to buy and which ones to avoid.

Drogue: You guys must pay alot of import taxes on wines because Californian wines are dirt cheap here in the US. Well, the big names cost alot but you can get decent table wine for around $2 per bottle. Many large names will go between $8-$12 per bottle. specialty names can cost much, much more.

	01-09-2003 05:08									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I agree with Oerdin:
Stick with New World wines if you are a newbie. I learned drinking wine (white and red) with French wines, and for Reds it was the hard way. Most French wines Drogue has listed, I wouldn't recommand them to newbies - they're too dry or too strong for an unused mouth, and one should go there progressively (however, you'll find gems there once you get used to drinking red).

My few experiences with Californian and Chilean wines were quite positive: while they had nothing exceptional, or even interesting, they sure were enjoyable and easy to drink. Definitely what I'd advise to newbies. Besides, there's the price argument: you wouldn't want to pay big bucks for an overrated Bordeaux you wouldn't even like

	01-09-2003 05:09									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Start growing a vineyard.

	01-09-2003 06:56									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

I tend to like California wines over French wines for exactly the reasons that Spiffor outlines. Lower risk and a higher chance of reward. Perhaps the rewards don't reach the heights of the best French wines, but I don't care enough about that to invest the time and effort.

	01-09-2003 06:58									#16
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Barolo has only one 'l'.

	01-09-2003 07:34									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Sikander I tend to like California wines over French wines for exactly the reasons that Spiffor outlines. Lower risk and a higher chance of reward. Perhaps the rewards don't reach the heights of the best French wines, but I don't care enough about that to invest the time and effort.

Besides, we don't exactly export our best, when it comes to price / quality ratio. We have tons of good and affordable wines that are barely risky to drink (I'm talking about reds... French whites are hardly risky, especially Alsaces), but you have to look at the right places with the right vendors to get them...

If you ever go to Paris when I'm there, we'll get a "cuite" together and you'll know

	01-09-2003 07:38									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

You can buy a bottle of Rioja (Marques de Caceres) at Trader Joe's for less than $6.

	01-09-2003 08:00									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by reds4ever

Sicko.

	01-09-2003 08:03									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Drogue As for chilling, with red wine it's a big no Red wine should be served at room temperature

Bear in mind that room temperature should be 18-24°C, not 30°C+

	01-09-2003 08:10									#21
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Besides, we don't exactly export our best, when it comes to price / quality ratio.

What do you mean? France certainly export their best wines, at very high prices, of course.

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor We have tons of good and affordable wines that are barely risky to drink

The best French wines are, well, best. The random assorted stuff (such as Vin de Pays) is crappy, though.

	01-09-2003 08:18									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger The best French wines are, well, best.

They sure are
But when abroad, you have to pay a disproportionate price to get it, unless you have a few good contacts. Besides, many wine exporters prefer to make money on prestige rather than actual quality In short, the quality isn't always that great abroad, but the price sure skyrockets.

Vin de pays are cheap crap in their immense majority, but a few are great, because they aren't random mix of crap, but rather an elaborate micx that gives a great product... But being mixes, they can't have an official location name ; they're like small brands.

	01-09-2003 08:22									#23
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I always found the location names to be highly misleading. Sure, it tells you where the wine is from but you have no clue as to what grape types are used and the type of grape has WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYY more impact on the finish wine then region does.

	01-09-2003 08:42									#24
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I always found the location names to be highly misleading. Sure, it tells you where the wine is from but you have no clue as to what grape types are used and the type of grape has WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYY more impact on the finish wine then region does.

Well, many bottles display the grape type somewhere. And for many regions, the grape type is more advertised than the precise location (Alsace's Riesling and Gewürtzraminer, Charentes' Pinot). But I agree it is misleading, or requires an excellent knowledge of Wine when no indication is written.
The French wine industry is deeply divided, btw, between keeping the old location system, or switching to the brand system. I think a mix of the two would be the best idea.

	01-09-2003 08:43									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

What that means is you have to trust the winemaker or the vineyard much more in the case of French wines. Also, French wines are much more dependent on the vintage (i.e. year of the grapes) than New World wines.

	01-09-2003 09:55									#26
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Buy cheap, buy in bulk. After the first couple of bottles, everything taste fine.

	01-09-2003 09:57									#27
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yeah, just like beer. You only need the first sixpack to be good.

	01-09-2003 10:40									#28
	Trader Joes Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Don't you live near Las Vegas? If so, go to Trader Joes and buy a case of Charles Shaw Merlot. This is really nice drinking stuff and it is selling for $1.99/bottle. A case will only set you back $24.

	01-09-2003 11:40									#29
	Put an end to popups!

There are all kinds of really good red wines...
it all depends on how much cash you're willing to spend.

	01-09-2003 12:06									#30
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Well, many bottles display the grape type somewhere. And for many regions, the grape type is more advertised than the precise location (Alsace's Riesling and Gewürtzraminer, Charentes' Pinot). But I agree it is misleading, or requires an excellent knowledge of Wine when no indication is written. The French wine industry is deeply divided, btw, between keeping the old location system, or switching to the brand system. I think a mix of the two would be the best idea.

As long as they leave Bordeaux alone. Vive le Haut-Medoc! Vive le St. Emilion! Vive le Pauillac! :hic: