10-09-2003 18:02									#31
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I havent played out the scenarios yet...

But to tell you the truth, I think Plan D and a palace jump may be better for us.

We have a nice bit of land... but there is not a lot of it.
We have to scratch every bit of productivity out of it.

A core of 9 (including the capital) away from the tundra will do it better than a core of only 7 cities with 3 southern cities strugling to find decent land.

It will hurt us early, when we disband the capital, but I think we will run better in the long run.

My thoughts anyway ...

	11-09-2003 06:31									#32
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Intuitively, I don't like the idea of the palace move. But hey, my intuition may be wrong. I think if we get too 'perfectionist' in our thinking, the game may overtake us. We have a good start - we built the capitol where we did - I say let's go with the 4/4.5 plan, and work on expansion north.

That being said, I do not have a lot of experience with palace moves, so you know where my prejudice sits.

Presumably we are thinking of doing it through disbanding PC, as opposed to a palace build. In which case, we should do it sooner than later - and yes - a settler is the correct build for the capital.

I guess on reflection, I am up for it.

	27-09-2003 05:30									#33
	Got spare money?

So where do we put our next city? I think we all agree on a 4/4.5 RCP. It should go north, probably 888 of PC...

What do you think?

--Kon--

	13-10-2003 09:34									#34
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Did we decide on which plan we are going to use?

Ill read up on the ring placement. But Im not in that big of a hurry because I heard its fixed in Conquests.

Lets make a decision on which option and then move forward.

I have no comment other than lets reach concensus.

	13-10-2003 18:21									#35
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Im gonna do a little spammimng here.

I think maybe the tighter ring Kon suggested would be the way to go early because of the tight spaces we have on this pennisula.

What are the choices? When are we going to reach consensus here?

	13-10-2003 18:56									#36
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We kinda implicitly agreed on H_E's Plan A (the 4/4.5 ring), as we're not really hurried into tense city placement. If we had a close neighbor, then a thighter build would have been more appropriate but it's not the case here...

--Kon--

	15-10-2003 05:30									#37
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Tight builds work great when you have close neighbours or bad territory...but then you have to move your palace later in the game.

As we decided to stay on the peninsula, the looser 4 spacing for our core cities probably works better.

We can always insert a few temporary camps if we need, but as our neighbours seem so far away, I think it safe to get our core cities down first and go builder mode.

	15-10-2003 07:08									#38
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yup! And we are industrious. Now, just get us pottery, and we are off to the races.

	15-10-2003 20:32									#39
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OK roger that guys.

Have we determined where the next city is going to go per tacitly approved H_E plan PLAN A?

Is the long term plan to establish the Ring then try and get to the main part of the Continent? Are we going to try and get an FP up there or is that Too far?

Just trying to figure out the long term thoughts........

And make sure we are all in consensus on the short term goals/ objectives.

	15-10-2003 20:53									#40
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Can we get that warrior due north of our AOR fortified on the Hill moving north? I would sure like to see whats north of those 2 cattle and all those nice bonus sheild grasslands.

Where did we run into the Cake Eaters? Do we have any idea where they are?

	15-10-2003 23:03									#41
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I think our next city should be at 888 of Primate Central, as it's the most productive city site on a short term.

We agreed with CoD that we would not explore north as long as they don't explore south. We met the CoD scout at the northern point of the hill range. Therefore, we can't go much more north.

--Kon--

	15-10-2003 23:25									#42
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OK Thanks Kon.

Whats 888 of Primate Central mean? Is that site "C" of the tacitly approved E_B Plan "A".

Last edited by conmcb25 on 18-10-2003 at 01:11

	18-10-2003 01:14									#43
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Now Im NOT advocating a palace jump here but if you are curious, I found the thread and bumped it to the top in the Startegy Forum.

I need a break from writing a technical report that is giving me a headache!

Palace Jump

	18-10-2003 02:17									#44
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888 means that to get to the tile i'm talking about you use keypad 8 three times. If it would have been 6421, you just hit the keypad numbers in that order to get to the correct tile. It's easier and more universal to speak this way than with the uncertain north south east and west...

--Kon--

	20-10-2003 23:41									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Konquest02 888 means that to get to the tile i'm talking about you use keypad 8 three times. If it would have been 6421, you just hit the keypad numbers in that order to get to the correct tile. It's easier and more universal to speak this way than with the uncertain north south east and west... --Kon--

Roger that, and DUH! That was simple!

Im new to CIV 3, I appreciate you guys helping me out.

BTW I enjoy and am probably best at the diplomacy. So when we get another contact Im up for that. Im a construction engineer and negotiate with and bluff contractors for a living. Im also an excellent bullsh1tter.

Keep that in mind when we contact other Civ's.

	21-10-2003 02:52									#46
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Ok, you can be the Python ambassador (likely the next civ we're gonna meet...)

	02-11-2003 03:30									#47
	City Sites Discussion - Part II Put an end to popups!

OK - I am taking a look farther north now. And thinking we may want to settle there sooner than later. Here is a map to work with:

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Be...sites-north.JPG

AA is the site discussed in the moves column. 4 luxuries and a hill with gold. Won't grow much of we do not deforest - but will be very valuable nonetheless.

I suggest BB after that. On the river - lots of bonus food tiles.

And then CC or one tile to the NW of that for a thrid border definition city.

I have marked with "City" the sites agreed to in the previous discussion. They are the 7/7.5 spacing-second ring cities.

I have suggested DD, EE, FF to fill out the territory. But there are a number of other possibilities I have labelled as Alt1, etc fo discussion purposes.

So - I think I am recommending we build one more city on the 4.5 ring north of PC, and then build a road and settle the far north as quickly as possible thereafter. We then backfill behind that border.

Thoughts? Discussion?

	02-11-2003 06:59									#48
	Put an end to popups!

AA is kinda far from our core and WILL need some serious negociations with CoD. If we can pull it, it would be wonderful, but I don't think they will allow us to settle there. And, last time we checked, there was a Python warrior posted there, and it looked like he wasn't close to moving...

Other than this, I really like your settlement plan. I especially like Alt2, as it's a great defensive city. And if we don't get AA, we can put a city 9 of Alt3, pump the culture and try to reach one of the luxuries.

A city in CC kinda blocks the other peninsula from everyone. At least it intimidates, which is a good thing. I think we should put our Fp in Alt 2, so we'll have a nice core around it. This also leaves room for a palace jump later.

I'll try to get my own development plan, but I think it'll look quite like your's...

to Beta! Have a kiwi and relax after a well done job!

--Kon--

	02-11-2003 23:16									#49
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Thanks Kon. Good kiwi. Yum.

I see your points.

I was thinking about the FP on the other peninsula. That is why I liked CC as a block, to ensure WE get all the land on that peninsula. It might be a trade for giving up the hill site with the luxuries. Maybe CoD and Monkey should consider some sort of split on the luxuries - but to be honest - the way they are laid out doesn't lend itself nicely to any kind of split.

It would be good to get a warrior down the length of the peninsula to see what it looks like. I suspect it is mostly hills and mountains at the bottome end. But there is still a good chunk of decent land. And I suspect the western most point of land may be a good jump off spot to the next landmass.

	02-11-2003 23:59									#50
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The peninsula will be ridiculously easy to settle once we get Map Making. Just send a couple of galleysover the gulf and we're done...

The trade luxuries for peninsula might be a little uneven, but we might try...

	03-11-2003 00:10									#51
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More city site thoughts.

I presume our next city will be the one 8-8-9 of PC. And has been discussed, we should build north as quickly as possible.

We are going to need to get irrigation to the plains tiles to the north. I recommend that we do not mine - but irrigate - the grassland tiles 8 and 8-8 from PC. This will then allow us, once the city is built, to irrigate the remaining plains tiles.

Again, I'm thinking once 8-8-9 is in, that we push on and settle further north as per the earlier discussion.

And btw - having the worker road the tile he is now on (7-8 from PC), will allow the settler to get to the site in two turns.

	03-11-2003 00:44									#52
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The plan was originally to put it on 888 of PC, but given our deforestation policy, I think we're better to settle on 889.

Agree on the irrigation plan.

--Kon--

	03-11-2003 15:04									#53
	Inflate your Upload Space

Just some general comments ...

Our first priority should be to settle our core before we make any bold land grab. I just dont want to repeat Roleplays mistakes and make early enemies.

I would like to settle all six core cities, unless we really need to make a land/resource claim.

I think we would have better results if we let con negotiate a border rather than build corrupt cities and claim land.

I do think we need to make claim on both peninsula's
Perhaps a FP on one, and a Palace on the other. But we do need to explore it before making any plans.



With regards on our next city.
8,8,8 or 8,8,9

I was concerned that site C will strugle to get to size 12 with so many mountains & hills to its east. Thats is why my map has 8,8,8.
8,8,9 looks better, but can someone check if it will have enough tiles to grow. Its a core city, so it needs to be able to get to size 12.

:b to the irrigation North.
We will also need to irrigate south.
Especially for sites E & F who will probably struggle to grow to any size. F may need some compromising on our deforestation.

	03-11-2003 18:46									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel Our first priority should be to settle our core before we make any bold land grab. I just dont want to repeat Roleplays mistakes and make early enemies. I would like to settle all six core cities, unless we really need to make a land/resource claim.

Im going to agree with H_E here. (Sorry Beta) Developing the core has to take priority. and with our Graneries about to kick in at the second granery (cant remember the name off hand) city it should not take too long.

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel I think we would have better results if we let con negotiate a border rather than build corrupt cities and claim land.

OK I can begin negotiations and I think we have some time but I need to know what to go to CoD with? Beta had that proposal for the north. Maybe we ought to propose our ideal and then let them chop it back (if they want) until we reach a comprimise. In the meantime we keep popping out core cities. Thoughts?

quote: Originally posted by Hot_Enamel I do think we need to make claim on both peninsula's Perhaps a FP on one, and a Palace on the other. But we do need to explore it before making any plans.

Before we get much farther are we going to jump a palace to the new core? While building an FP in the initial core? Or are we just going to try and build FP in the new core despite the corruption? This is important because we have to disband the palace city we have now to get it to jump, and if that is what we are going to do we need to logically place the construction of the FP now. Maybe we already decided this but I just wanted to clarify. I can bump that palace jump thread again if your interested in the calculation.

EDIT: Just posted in the 1750 turn;

quote: Originally posted by Beta 1750 bc turn played Macaque - granary finished. Growth in two. settler in 5. Gorilla. Barracks finished next turn.

So we have the second granery, the core will be finished in no time.

Also lets build a few NM's in Gorilla.

And we cant forget a few more workers down the line.

	03-11-2003 18:53									#55
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H_E, we can't irrigate tundra..

	03-11-2003 19:18									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Konquest02 H_E, we can't irrigate tundra..

Yep...I meant the grassland along the tundra

	04-11-2003 05:34									#57
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OK - you guys win on the core vs expansion question. And btw - that was one of Vox's big mistakes as well, so thanks for talking me out of it.

It's just my personality getting in the way of sound strategy. At work I tend to be a big picture guy. So with civ3, I look ahead to what the empire might look like before getting the foundation down. Thanks for bringing me back down to earth.

I am not keen on a palace jump. We discussed it earlier - and I think we have a decent site for the capitol, and a really good first ring of cities.

I like the idea of irrigating north of the tundra. Then when engineering is here, we can forest the tundra for two shield output. That will also be consistent with our eco-policy, and perhaps a new habitat for an endangered species. (maybe me by that point in the game.)

Ok - maybe one city in the north ... just one. A small one. Size 1 to start with. OK?

	04-11-2003 05:58									#58
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I think one city in the chokepoint (Alt2 comes to my mind) could be nice as it really blocks the rest of the peninsula... I think we should settle the northern core and then settle this one north before going in the tundra. It will probably be more productive than a tundra city too... Might want to do a test about this to test the corruption though...

--Kon--

	04-11-2003 07:39									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Beta Ok - maybe one city in the north ... just one. A small one. Size 1 to start with. OK?

Sure Beta, no problem anything for you! Just as soon as the initial core is down........

We are all looking at from the big picture. In the long run we will be better off to have a solid core. And as I said before the lack of corruption in the core is staggering.

If we are gonna palace jump, where are we going to build the FP?

Shouldn't we take that into account as we are placing cities?

Im assuming we are going to build the FP close and when its done jump the palace. That way we FP build in a non corrupt city. Is this what we are thinking about?

	04-11-2003 09:57									#60
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Guess we better talk about the FP and a palace jump. I was assuming the capitol stays put. The city site discussion was kind of built around that premise. If it changes - and I recall an earlier proposal to that effect, then we better do our thinking real quick.