02-09-2003 19:43									#1
	This is an outrage! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

http://news.com.com/2100-1012_3-506...ag=fd_lede1_hed

Microsoft is gonna get a kick in the A** for this! I can see another antitrust trial comin' already! This is insane! I'm gonna complain to the Justice Department!

	02-09-2003 19:45									#3
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Don't worry, any software copy protections can always be cracked. Microsoft will waste money devising this system, and some 18 year old hacker will defeat it.

	02-09-2003 19:50									#4
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I think we all know what happened to Wiglaf, now.

But I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the reason that no other software will open Office 2003 documents with the restricted documents (with the License Server in corporations) is because nobody else makes a product that can do **** like that.

God damn them and doing new things, they should wait till someone else does it and then watch. If they tried to enter that market, they'd be just admitting they're satan...

	02-09-2003 19:52									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Sava Don't worry, any software copy protections can always be cracked. Microsoft will waste money devising this system, and some 18 year old hacker will defeat it.

This is early stuff that'll be hardware-based with Palladium. And once it's hardware based like Palladium, it becomes a real ***** to get around it.

	02-09-2003 19:53									#6
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For anyone who works with Office documents containing sensitive information the outrage is not that there will be an easy way to lock it and stop other people altering your documents, the outrage is that it isn't already available as part of Office.

	02-09-2003 20:02									#7
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I agree with Cerberus. It's taken too long for something like this to appear.

	02-09-2003 20:14									#8
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This already happens with acrobat files to some extent. It's just password protection. Worry about Palladium. Hardware based copy protection is the real satan.

	02-09-2003 20:16									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It's not password protection, even in this software case, if you'd care to look into it.

It involves useraccounts, licenses, keys, and encryption.

	02-09-2003 20:17									#10
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV For anyone who works with Office documents containing sensitive information the outrage is not that there will be an easy way to lock it and stop other people altering your documents, the outrage is that it isn't already available as part of Office.

FYI, PGP/GPG has been out for aeons, and they work on any files - not just Office documents.

	02-09-2003 20:19									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Asher But I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the reason that no other software will open Office 2003 documents with the restricted documents (with the License Server in corporations) is because nobody else makes a product that can do **** like that.

As it was pointed out in the article, nobody is going to buy yet another version of Office just for that. There are already tons of programs that encrypt files, and some of them are even free

	02-09-2003 20:20									#12
	Remove this text

PGP allows you to set expiry dates? PGP allows you easily to assign documents to be only readable, only writable, assign only-certain-parts to be writable, etc? PGP allows you to click entire Workgroups at once to add permission to, rather than adding everyone's key automatically? Not to mention the logistics of key distribution and encrypting/decrypting is a pain in the ass.

	02-09-2003 20:21									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger FYI, PGP/GPG has been out for aeons, and they work on any files - not just Office documents.

I know, but like 98% (my guesstimate!) of computer users I don't want to start going off and downloading other software, etc. I just want the whole thing in one package that I can use there and then. I want it easy so that I can do a piece of work and then go and do something else.

	02-09-2003 20:23									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger As it was pointed out in the article, nobody is going to buy yet another version of Office just for that. There are already tons of programs that encrypt files, and some of them are even free

Two things:
First, you obviously don't understand what the technology is -- it's not simply fileencryption.

Second, did you even read the article?

quote: Rosoff said IRM should see fairly quick adoption--at least compared with complex XML-based functions to be tied into Office 2003--because it solves an immediate business problem and is relatively cheap and easy to implement.

	02-09-2003 20:50									#15
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Since any attempt by Microsoft to improve/better it's products will automatically be seen as another attempt to monopolize/dominate/destroy, are these threads necessary?

	02-09-2003 20:51									#16
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the justice department suing microsoft again is probably an inevidability. they just can't right now, gotta lick all their wounds from the first time.

	02-09-2003 20:54									#17
	Re: This is an outrage! Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy http://news.com.com/2100-1012_3-506...ag=fd_lede1_hed Microsoft is gonna get a kick in the A** for this! I can see another antitrust trial comin' already! This is insane! I'm gonna complain to the Justice Department!

What's outrageous is that I got a gator pop up add when I followed your link.

	02-09-2003 21:00									#18
	Suffering from ads?

It seems like a basically good idea which MS is using to lock out the competetion and insure that everyone must upgrade to the latest version or else they won't be able to access .doc files. This is going to make for alot of incompatability problems and insuring compatability is the only good thing about a monopoly computer standard.

	02-09-2003 21:01									#19
	Remove this text

And what happens when you add Palladium to this? Documents keyed to specific hardware? That's a winner...until you need a new machine.

	02-09-2003 21:02									#20
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

(Note also: other vendors will no longer be able to open .doc files without violating the DMCA.)

	02-09-2003 21:07									#21
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quote: Originally posted by dv8ed And what happens when you add Palladium to this? Documents keyed to specific hardware? That's a winner...until you need a new machine.

No, you'd specify the person's key, not their computer. Do you understand how Palladium works? It's like PGP, with more features, and in it dedicated hardware free from viruses, hackers, and intruders.

quote: (Note also: other vendors will no longer be able to open .doc files without violating the DMCA.)

This is a bit of fearmongering. It's true that competing programs can't open Office 11 Professonal" files, but only if they have IRM enabled. And if somebody has IRM enabled, they're doing it for a reason.

	02-09-2003 21:10									#22
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double post

	02-09-2003 22:50									#23
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quote: It seems like a basically good idea which MS is using to lock out the competetion and insure that everyone must upgrade to the latest version or else they won't be able to access .doc files.

They do this already. Open a 97 document with a 2000 app then try to open it in 97. Ooops! Time to upgrade!

quote: No, you'd specify the person's key, not their computer. Do you understand how Palladium works? It's like PGP, with more features, and in it dedicated hardware free from viruses, hackers, and intruders.

Ideally. But since it's Microsoft spearheaded I'd like to see it before I belive that. That statement reminds me of the kid that cracked the Celine Dion cd with a marker.

Plus, with hardware DRM, does this mean that I have to use approved development tools when creating software? I don't want to fire up an old Pascal app for kicks only to find out it isn't kosher on my install.

	02-09-2003 23:10									#24
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Palladium is disabled by default, and separates programs into three categories: Trusted, Not trusted, and Legacy.

Only programs specifically written for Palladium are regulated by it, and placed in Trusted and Not Trusted. Old applications are Legacy and work just like they did before.

Trusted Applications mean Palladium is turned on, and it protects all of your secure data in a separate, isolated memory pool with its own decryption and encryption logic. It also has a unique key associated with a user, which is portable, and allows you to set items on it like who can access it, no matter where the file ends up.

	02-09-2003 23:40									#25
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV For anyone who works with Office documents containing sensitive information the outrage is not that there will be an easy way to lock it and stop other people altering your documents, the outrage is that it isn't already available as part of Office.

Exactly. I've dealt with numerous situations where other people have made undisclosed changes to wording of draft contracts, and a rather nasty one involving a supposed lender who turned out to be a glorified broker making changes to financial projections I did for a $200 million project.

Alteration can be handled with digital signatures, but access and complex privilege policies can not. This is something that should have been done years ago.

And since it's user controlled, there's nothing monopolistic about it at all.

	02-09-2003 23:47									#26
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Harry Seldon They do this already. Open a 97 document with a 2000 app then try to open it in 97. Ooops! Time to upgrade!

You can save it as the previous version to keep it openable in that version.

	02-09-2003 23:56									#27
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Well well...

I can see three possible outcomes.

1. What Microsoft hopes will happen: The system will work and everyone will find it useful and Microsoft will have extended it's virtual monopoly over personal computing.

2. What the Linux maniacs hope will happen: people will finally wake up and see how evil Microsoft is, sparking a mass migration to Open Source alternatives. Microsoft will go bankrupt and we will all be free....

3. What will probably happen: it won't work properly or nearly at all and thousands of users will end up locked out of their own documents and/or computers for no apparent reason. Millions of dollars will thus be lost. People will complain bitterly and threaten to boycott Microsoft, but they will be too lazy to follow through. The scheme will either be red-facedly abolished or toned down and people will get back to normal.

	02-09-2003 23:58									#28
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4. It's already been tested by 600,000 Office 11 beta testers, and it certainly does work. Mac users make doomsday scenerios, Linux users chant about how Microsoft is trying to take over the world, and Microsoft makes more money by giving corporate users what they've asked for for years.

	03-09-2003 00:06									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Seldon They do this already. Open a 97 document with a 2000 app then try to open it in 97. Ooops! Time to upgrade!

I work back and forth all the time with no problems, but then again I dont use very much of the office2000 bloat.

Now powerpoint is a little funky.