03-09-2003 10:31									#1
	T-Rex vs. Allosaurus Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

My friends and I have been in an epic arguement as of late, adn I appear to be losing... badly. But I am convinced I am right.

The ttile of this poll is fairly self-explainatory. Who do you think would win in a fair one-on-one fight, T-Rex, or Allosaurus.

I say T-Rex, Just by virtue of sheer size, mass and power. My friends say Allosaurus because he is a known hunter (T-Rex probably could not get over 25 mph o probably only hunted slow stuff when it happened to be convenient, but probably usually scavanged and stole other kills), was very quick, not much smaller, and had usable arms. I say Allosaurus's arms were negligable, sure they were usable, but to what extent? Sharks and snakes dont have arms, but they still kill effectively. Would Allosaurus's somewhat more useful arms really be that much of a difference in the face of The mighty T-Rex's power (this is definately not a biased poll )? Would his increased speed make the difference needed to take down ol' Rex?

The height and weight from various internet and book sources on the creatures are in dispute of exact figures, but we all agreed Rex had a good size advantage to Allosaurus and also had a speed and arm handicap when against his smaller cousin.

So who do you, the Apolyton community think would win? I come to you for your opinion, cause right now im losing like 7 votes to 1 in the people Ive asked around me. The confidence in my choice is failing, but what if all the peope around me are just dumb? Perhaps I am wrong... and even if all you guys say Allosaurus, I probably still wont change my mind... but we shall see.
Im curious to what yall think on the matter, and what your reasoning on it is. I am by no means a dino-expert, it was a huge childhood interest of mine. but im pretty rusty on any finds and new theories past 1990. So Im sure many of yall could enlighten me on the subject.

Thanks

Kman

	03-09-2003 10:48									#2
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I am one of these so-called dumb friends of Kman. I think he's placing far to much emphasis on our arm argument, but to me that's only a slight edge to the Allosaurus. It's the quick speed of the more nimble allosaurus and its incredible jaws, which could expand like a snake's and take 100 pound chunks out of another dinosaur, that make it the better.

The sheer size, as it was put by Kman, of the T. Rex really matters not in my opinion. Its slow reflexes could do nothing to avoid the severe wounds that the allosaurus could make. Also, these slow reflexes prevent the massive carnisaur from overwhelming the allosaur with its own attacks. The simplest way to put my reasoning is that the allosaur can attack many times without retaliation from a slower T. Rex.

The way I imagine the fight is that of the allosaur charging with its greater speed and leaping at the side of the Tyrannosaur, thus more than likely taking both of the beasts to the ground. But the more agile allosaurus would be first to get to its feet, if it even fell in the first place, and tear the larger dinosaur apart. (This is where the weak arms of the Rex disable him.)

Anyways, GO ALLOSAURUS!

	03-09-2003 11:07									#3
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With hit-and-run tactics, the Allosaurus would probably be able to win. Its faster speed would also mean that any 'battles' would take place on its terms, not the T-Rex's.

	03-09-2003 11:13									#4
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I remember having the same discussions- when I was 9

I always rooted for the allosourus when I was a kid

	03-09-2003 12:53									#5
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As it still isnīt clear if Tyrannosauridae were Predators or "just" Scavengers (and there are some evidences which point into the Direction of Scavenger), Iīd think that Allosaurus would win.

Allosaurii were intelligent, faster than T-Rex and were used to attacking other Saurian Species (which isnīt the case, if T-Rex isnīt also a Preator), whereas T-Rex has a large Olfactory Lobe (and so can receive even slightest Traces of odor) and a powerful bite.
I think, Alosaurus would have to make use of its Intelligence and greatr Agility to avoid the Bite and wear the T-Rex down by constantly attacking and then retreating out of the Range of its Bite, to avoid the Counterattack.

	03-09-2003 13:01									#6
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I'm afraid I'm going to have to go for Size over Finnese. The Allosaurus darts in, rips off a mighty hunk of disgusting flesh, and gets body-checked by the mass of the T-Rex reacting to the blow. If he doesn't collect himself in time, the T-Rex then has his say with those jaws of his (Which I will assume for a moment are not weak scavenger jaws).

Now, make it a pack, and we've got a different story.

	03-09-2003 13:31									#7
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I doubt Allosaur would even challenge T-Rex to a fight, that ought to give us our answer. And why should it, with speed it can simply avoid T-Rex. With greater speed comes lighter weight and bones which means greater fragility. We can see by watching fleet footed predators today like the Cheetah that they avoid stronger anmals, even non-predators, these kinds of animals can suffer injury much too easily in such a fight and they know how important their agility is so they try to take care of themselves more than the bigger bruisers. How about Triceratops and T-Rex? Now there's a fight waiting to happen, but maybe T-Rex's avoided them since it could certainly take on something without deadly horns. And it looks like these big predators were not adept at attacking the big veggies like Brontosaurs, these guys had whips for tails and could stand back and slash even T-Rex's long before they could get close enough. The T-Rex is akin to male lions and Allosaur is like the Leopard or Cheetah, no contest - T-Rex.

	03-09-2003 13:45									#8
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If you're going to be coldly logical, Berz, there's a much better reason they wouldn't fight. Carnivore meat is pretty terrible to eat, generally. There's a reason that we eat nice herbivore cows, and not lions.

	03-09-2003 14:18									#9
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There is also the slight problem that the two species probably didn't coexist. The fossil record isn't complete enough to be sure but it seems that Allosaurs died out before T-Rex came along.

If they did ever argue then T-Rex comes out on top. If it was a scavenger the advantage of size is being able to intimidate and drive everything else away from a carcass. Lions, sharks, etc. the biggest ones generally get to eat first at a kill.

There are claims that T-Rex and a similar South American species did live in packs, based on isolated mass death sites, but not enough is known to be conclusive.

	03-09-2003 14:46									#10
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Snow, they wouldn't have to fight to eat each other, many predators will fight over other things. Lions and Hyenas are constantly fighting over turf and kills, but Cheetahs will almost always leave a kill when confronted with a scavenger like a Hyena because they can't afford to get hurt. I'm sure Allosaurs were relatively much more durable than Cheetahs, but lighter built animals will usually leave when biggers ones arrive. Animals that rely on superior speed seem to understand how important it is to avoid fights and I'm sure Allosaurs were in that category.

	03-09-2003 15:00									#11
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How many solid bites would it take for T-Rex to kill Allosaur and how many bites would it take for Allosaur to kill T-Rex?

Answers:

1

Don't matter, T-Rex would be flossing his teeth with Allosaur's entrails.

	03-09-2003 17:48									#12
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quote: Originally posted by SnowFire I'm afraid I'm going to have to go for Size over Finnese. The Allosaurus darts in, rips off a mighty hunk of disgusting flesh, and gets body-checked by the mass of the T-Rex reacting to the blow. If he doesn't collect himself in time, the T-Rex then has his say with those jaws of his (Which I will assume for a moment are not weak scavenger jaws). Now, make it a pack, and we've got a different story.

Thats what I was saying! He also had a larger, longer tail (i assume anyway) that he could use to whip at the allosuarus if it gets behind and also as a "pole arm" of sorts to keep a guerrilla Allosaurus at bay.

I also made the comparison of TRex to male lions and Allosaurus to lighter, faster cfats as well, but my friends disagreed. Come on people.... T-Rex is the man

	03-09-2003 17:51									#13
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They wipe each other out and this little furry thing that looks like a cross between a mouse and a lemur takes over.

	03-09-2003 18:10									#14
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I'd say since T-rex lived millions of years after allosauris, that T-rex wins against allorausis' moldering corpse.

	03-09-2003 18:14									#15
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T&he Allosaurus doesnīt need to bite the T-Rex,
he has also razorsharp Claws, with which he can wound the T-Rex.
So he could come in from behind, wound T-Rex with his Claws and hopefully be out of the Range of T-Rex as soon as he locates his Enemy and tries to Counterattack.

One Wound wouldnīt kill T-Rex, but if Allosaurus repeatedly attacks and hen avoids him, T-Rex would get weaker and weaker (after all, you must also take into acount, that T-Rex constantly looses Blood from the already existing wound and therefore would probably get weakened more by the wounds, then Allosaurus gets weakened by Atacking and avoiding T-Rex).

Of course, as soon as Allosaurus gets bitten by T-Rex, te Game is over for him, so he must be very carefully and make good use of his minor size and greater Agility.

	03-09-2003 20:30									#16
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I think T-Rex's tail would prevent hit-n-run attacks by Allosaurus. Admittedly, it's really hard to say given that we don't know much about movement or reaction speeds of these creatures.

I recently read an article which stated that the larger dinosaurs like T-Rex were nowhere near as fast as most think, and in fact may not have been able to run at all! The author had modeled the physics involved, and reached the conclusion that their leg bones could simply not withstand the stress of the impact loading of so much mass at any kind of speed.

	03-09-2003 20:37									#17
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I think the Star Trek Federation would win.

	03-09-2003 21:06									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker I doubt Allosaur would even challenge T-Rex to a fight, that ought to give us our answer. And why should it, with speed it can simply avoid T-Rex. With greater speed comes lighter weight and bones which means greater fragility. We can see by watching fleet footed predators today like the Cheetah that they avoid stronger anmals, even non-predators, these kinds of animals can suffer injury much too easily in such a fight and they know how important their agility is so they try to take care of themselves more than the bigger bruisers. How about Triceratops and T-Rex? Now there's a fight waiting to happen, but maybe T-Rex's avoided them since it could certainly take on something without deadly horns. And it looks like these big predators were not adept at attacking the big veggies like Brontosaurs, these guys had whips for tails and could stand back and slash even T-Rex's long before they could get close enough. The T-Rex is akin to male lions and Allosaur is like the Leopard or Cheetah, no contest - T-Rex.

The comparison between cheetahs and lions is not accurate to this situation. Lions must be like 3 times more powerful than a cheetah, maybe more, whereas a T. Rex is not only 1.5 times larger than an allosaur and a similar ratio probably exists between their strengths. I'll admit that a Rex is stronger than big Al, but most people aren't realizing that an allosaur is really powerful itself and, when it lived, was capable at taking down dinosaurs even larger than a Rex. To me the size difference isn't enough to give the Rex the edge.

	03-09-2003 21:11									#19
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I'd like to make a few things clear. Kman said in the first post that it was 7-to-1, but in fact it's 9-to-1 prior to this thread, so the allosaurus should have 8 votes added to it.

Also, this is a hypothetical post, don't argue that the two dinos would never have fought.

And finally, stop voting for Bananasaurus, Those are potential allosaur votes.

	03-09-2003 21:13									#20
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV There is also the slight problem that the two species probably didn't coexist. The fossil record isn't complete enough to be sure but it seems that Allosaurs died out before T-Rex came along. If they did ever argue then T-Rex comes out on top. If it was a scavenger the advantage of size is being able to intimidate and drive everything else away from a carcass. Lions, sharks, etc. the biggest ones generally get to eat first at a kill. There are claims that T-Rex and a similar South American species did live in packs, based on isolated mass death sites, but not enough is known to be conclusive.

Intimidation should not be a factor in this situation. Both dinosaurs are gonna fight each other, they don't need to be intimidated and scared away.

	03-09-2003 22:35									#21
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye I think T-Rex's tail would prevent hit-n-run attacks by Allosaurus. Admittedly, it's really hard to say given that we don't know much about movement or reaction speeds of these creatures. I recently read an article which stated that the larger dinosaurs like T-Rex were nowhere near as fast as most think, and in fact may not have been able to run at all! The author had modeled the physics involved, and reached the conclusion that their leg bones could simply not withstand the stress of the impact loading of so much mass at any kind of speed.

T-Rex's tail is used for balance and certainly not for fighting; It's not quite possible that a T-Rex would be able to knock the Allosaurus down with his tail, you'd need a much larger and longer tail for that.

I think it would be a tough battle though, and impossible to predict because we don't know how exactly they moved. T-Rex was sluggish and heavy, but so was the Allosaurus... If you want real agile and fast hunters you are looking for the Deinonychus or Velocirapter and the like but they can't take on a big animal alone in a 1v1, no matter how fast the prey is, it would just run away anyway which is why a T-Rex can never take on small, fast preys. Due to his size he needs to kill big prey to still his appetite so he won't bother wasting energy on small creatures (hunting requires an enormous amount of energy!)

I think it could go either way..

	03-09-2003 23:20									#22
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Allosaurus was not sluggish. Some sources say he was an agile hunter that could run great speeds and even leap on its prey, somewhat like a large raptor.

	03-09-2003 23:21									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Ikarus And finally, stop voting for Bananasaurus, Those are potential allosaur votes.

YOU DARE QUESTION THE BANANA OPTION!!!

Death to the newbie!

It could go either way, depending on how it begun, and who got the best big attack in first.

	03-09-2003 23:24									#24
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HEY! I'm not a newbie.

	03-09-2003 23:25									#25
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quote: YOU DARE QUESTION THE BANANA OPTION!!! Death to the newbie!

thank you... he had the nerve to make fun of the option thinking it stupid and childish... he just doesnt understand tho

	04-09-2003 00:15									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Ikarus HEY! I'm not a newbie.

First symptom of being a newbi is denial.

	04-09-2003 00:59									#27
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alright

	04-09-2003 01:58									#28
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What's the second symptom?

I said Allesaurus would win.

	04-09-2003 02:09									#29
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even if drunk, T-Rex would win.

	04-09-2003 04:18									#30
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I think it is too close to call, both were expert hunters and lived in small groups. They both could run at about 40 mph, but Allosaurus was smaller, hence could change velocity faster than T-rex. T-rex, though, was stronger.

Large theropods were not sluggish and T-rex hunted a lot more then it scavenged!