04-09-2003 22:37									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www Osweld, they created more pollution by buring the stuff. If you properly disspose of the thing after you use them it will cause far less polution. So they created more polution and wasted the materials they were made out of!!

Let's use the warehouse as an example.

The warehouse is a workplace for people and a storage unit for industry. Everyday people drive to it in their cars for work. Goods are produced in factories which are shiped to the warehouse in planes, trucks, or ships. The goods are then transported from the warehouse into stores where people buy it, use it, and throw it out.* This goes on for decades, untill the warehouse is abandoned. When abandoned, it falls into disrepair and begins decaying and rusting untill it is demolished, where it is then destroyed and if "properly disposed of" recycled into a new building which then repeats the process. It does not reach the end of it's "life" untill the materials are no longer being recycled and are left in a scrap heap to decay. Burning it brings it straight to the scrap heap.

*I could go into how it causes pollution through providing jobs, infrastructure to indsustry and all the other various branch offs, but that would get a bit long...

	04-09-2003 22:40									#32
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Osweld, how about rebuilding the warehouse? does that cause even more pollution than normal? probably does, dolt.

	04-09-2003 22:41									#33
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That's a silly argument Osweld. Recycling doesn't cause more pollution, nor does natural decay in any real sense, than does outright destruction... Besides, burning down a warehouse doesn't mean that those who worked there are just going to sit on their hands. On the contrary, they will reap the land of more natural resources to rebuild what was destroyed... Thus, more pollution, using your logic.

	04-09-2003 22:41									#34
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 Osweld, how about rebuilding the warehouse? does that cause even more pollution than normal? probably does, dolt.

As I said in my little example, it would eventually be abaonded and rebuilt anyways. No difference.

	04-09-2003 22:43									#35
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osweld! THEY BURNT IT DOWN CAUSING MORE POLLUTION! The extremes you go to justify your own agenda is ridiculous!

	04-09-2003 22:43									#36
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They aren't creating more pollution and they aren't preventing any pollution, they're just throwing a wrench into the gears of industry and civilization.

	04-09-2003 22:44									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld As I said in my little example, it would eventually be abaonded and rebuilt anyways. No difference.

No it would not, the fire cause more pollution and DOES NOT STOP POLLUTION.

	04-09-2003 22:44									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I agree they are nutbags, but I can't say I'm shedding tears for those dealers or the SUV's...

You can add my name to that. People who drive SUV's are selfish arseholes who put everyone else at risk.

	04-09-2003 22:44									#39
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 osweld! THEY BURNT IT DOWN CAUSING MORE POLLUTION! The extremes you go to justify your own agenda is ridiculous!

I just demonstrated to you how they are not causing more pollution... 'shouting' isn't going to change the fact.


And who says this is my agenda?

	04-09-2003 22:45									#40
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an abandoned building causes less pollution than one burning.

and throwing a wrench into industry and civilization on that scale doesnt do **** but piss people like me off. Remember, the people who are opposed to enviro mental retards are the ones with the guns.

	04-09-2003 22:45									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon You can add my name to that. People who drive SUV's are selfish arseholes who put everyone else at risk.

What about SUVs that get 20 miles to the gallon? What about hybrid SUVs? dont lump all into one.

	04-09-2003 22:46									#42
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quote: Remember, the people who are opposed to enviro mental retards are the ones with the guns

Decissions, decissions

	04-09-2003 22:50									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld I just demonstrated to you how they are not causing more pollution... 'shouting' isn't going to change the fact. And who says this is my agenda?

If you let the warehouse just sit there after you are done using it, or tear it down and recycle the materials, you cause far less polution then burning it down.

	04-09-2003 23:00									#44
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 an abandoned building causes less pollution than one burning.

Not really. Having the materials decay and seep into the environment slowly isn't any better then shooting it all out in a big burst of flame.

quote: and throwing a wrench into industry and civilization on that scale doesnt do **** but piss people like me off.

That's the general idea, I think. And the damage isn't insignifgant, either.

quote: Recycling doesn't cause more pollution

It does by sustaining industry - if we did not recycle we'd burn up all the resources and our industry would collapse.

quote: nor does natural decay in any real sense

And what's more natural then fire? It's nature's favorite tool for cleaning up.

quote: If you let the warehouse just sit there after you are done using it, or tear it down and recycle the materials, you cause far less polution then burning it down.

Sorry, but that's just not true. For one thing, there is no way they are going to leave it there and let nature reclaim, they'll tear it down and scrap it, or use it to build a new fun and pollution spewing factory in it's place. Eitherway, the materials are going to seep back into the environemnt one way or the other. Whether that's through smoke or soil/water contamination doesn't really matter.

	04-09-2003 23:02									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman This is not terrorism.

	04-09-2003 23:05									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld Not really. Having the materials decay and seep into the environment slowly isn't any better then shooting it all out in a big burst of flame. That's the general idea, I think. And the damage isn't insignifgant, either. It does by sustaining industry - if we did not recycle we'd burn up all the resources and our industry would collapse. And what's more natural then fire? It's nature's favorite tool for cleaning up. Sorry, but that's just not true. For one thing, there is no way they are going to leave it there and let nature reclaim, they'll tear it down and scrap it, or use it to build a new fun and pollution spewing factory in it's place. Eitherway, the materials are going to seep back into the environemnt one way or the other. Whether that's through smoke or soil/water contamination doesn't really matter.

So what you are saying is one recycling does not help the enviroment. That we should just consume all earth's natural resources so that it would be impossible to polute, and that burning a a building down is just as good as recycling it? This is stupid if you ask me. Then why dont we burn down old buildings, it would be a lot faster then tearing it down.

	04-09-2003 23:05									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld Not really. Having the materials decay and seep into the environment slowly isn't any better then shooting it all out in a big burst of flame.

Prove to me that it sitting there is far worse than it burning. The same pollutants are not released by it sitting there doing nothing. You think all pollution is the same?

quote: [size=1] Sorry, but that's just not true. For one thing, there is no way they are going to leave it there and let nature reclaim, they'll tear it down and scrap it, or use it to build a new fun and pollution spewing factory or something. Eitherway, the materials are going to seep back into the environemnt one way or the other. Wether that's through smoke or soil/water contamination doesn't really matter.

It does matter. take some classes in science and use some common sense.

	04-09-2003 23:08									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon You can add my name to that. People who drive SUV's are selfish arseholes who put everyone else at risk.

Most people buy SUV's for protection, in case of an accident, or for cargo space. A few arseholes buy them for 'status'. In the 1st case you can't really blame them; it's the "me and my family come 1st" scenario.
That said I think we could use less SUV's on the road.

Sloww, I [Louisiana drawl]guarantee[/Louisiana drawl] that them dad burn lib'ruls had nuthin' to do with this. We don't use guns, remember?

	04-09-2003 23:16									#49
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 Prove to me that it sitting there is far worse than it burning. The same pollutants are not released by it sitting there doing nothing. You think all pollution is the same? It does matter. take some classes in science and use some common sense.

I am using common sense. Burning it is a rapid form of decaying - after the fire, what's left is not going to be there much longer. While on the other hand, if you leave something to decay it will be effecting the environment for a much longer period of time.

The results of a fire may be more toxic initially. But when compared to the extra centuries - millenia even - that it would be effecting the environment if it is left to rust into oblivion? Not to mention that it would likely fall victim to a natural fire before then, anyways.


Just to be clear, I'm not saying that burning it causes less pollution - it's uncomparable really. And, like I said before, all the same in the end.

	04-09-2003 23:20									#50
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the problem is you cant recycle burnt ****. if you want to save the world osweld kill yourself. i dont need to read your "dust in the wind" obtuseness anymore.

	04-09-2003 23:23									#51
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 the problem is you cant recycle burnt ****. if you want to save the world osweld kill yourself. i dont need to read your "dust in the wind" obtuseness anymore.

Don't blaim me if you can't cope with the big picture.

And I already adressed recycling - it sustains industry.

	04-09-2003 23:25									#52
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i can cope with the big picture by doing little things. By not being a nihilistic enviromentalretard i feel that i can make a difference in every day life.

kill yourself osweld. itll help save the planet.

	04-09-2003 23:27									#53
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Sava doesn't care. He doesn't drive an SUV, so it's no biggie.

Actually, my parents have a Toyota Highlander... it's considered an SUV, but built off of a Camry platform.

quote: Ladies and Gentlemen, that's indicative of the real problem. Happens to someone else, hey, no biggie.

Sure it's a problem... but I prioritize things. What's more of a problem... a few dipshits vandalizing some SUV's, or SUV's themselves. Personally, I think polluting, gas guzzling SUV's are more of a problem than a few twits.

The idea of the greater good might be foreign to you SLoww, so I forgive you.

	04-09-2003 23:39									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Sava What's more of a problem... a few dipshits vandalizing some SUV's, or SUV's themselves. Personally, I think polluting, gas guzzling SUV's are more of a problem than a few twits.

And what's the effect of the twits vandalizing:
Did it educate anyone?
Did it stop one person from purchasing an SUV?
Did it stop GM, Ford, etc. from continuing to produce SUV's?

Or did it put environmentalists (in general) in a bad light?

We know what the 'problem' is. Try offering a SOLUTION.

	04-09-2003 23:41									#55
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kill enviromentalists

	04-09-2003 23:43									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Theben And what's the effect of the twits vandalizing: Did it educate anyone? Did it stop one person from purchasing an SUV? Did it stop GM, Ford, etc. from continuing to produce SUV's? Or did it put environmentalists (in general) in a bad light? We know what the 'problem' is. Try offering a SOLUTION.

I agree... that's why I don't pay much attention to this stuff. I just chuckle. OTOH, the effect of driving inefficient and wasteful vehicles is seriously detrimental to the environmental health of the world. Sure, these people are dopes and are only hurting the cause they presume to support; but it pales in comparison to the abuses of the auto industry with respect to SUV's.

	04-09-2003 23:47									#57
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 i can cope with the big picture by doing little things. By not being a nihilistic enviromentalretard i feel that i can make a difference in every day life.

So what differences do you make? I might be a nihilistic enviromentalretard but I do make an effort where I can. I'm a minimalist consumer, don't drive cars, eat organic, ect... maybe it's just to occupy myself while I wait for doomsday, but no difference.


By the way, ELF isn't nihilistic. They must think humans can go back to nature or something, because they go out of their way not to kill anyone through their actions. I guess they're optimists.

	05-09-2003 00:24									#58
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If this is Texas terrorism I guess the only thing worse would be a mass "football deflater" on the lose! Heaven forbid...

	05-09-2003 00:26									#59
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This reminds me also of a Tom Clancy book were enviromental terriorist use the a virus to try and kill 90% of the human race.

	05-09-2003 00:27									#60
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First off ELF isn't a terrorist group. Vandals? Sure, but given they are careful not to harm anyone, this only makes them vandals. I'm not terrified by them, so there you go.

And talk about conservative reactionary bias in the title of this thread! "Attacked"? Give me a break. I never hear about grafitti artists in my neighborhood "attacking" walls and buildings.

I guess Sloww is defining 'attack' down ...

As for SUVs getting burned, I won't be shedding any tears. Sorry, but I just don't care. If the police catch the guys who did it, make them pay restitution and do the time or probation or whatever.