05-09-2003 00:30									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www This reminds me also of a Tom Clancy book were enviromental terriorist use the a virus to try and kill 90% of the human race.

Tom Clancy is a right-wing, reactionary shithead.

And a second-rate writer. I don't expect hick conservatives to enjoy Joyce, but let's raise the bar a little.

	05-09-2003 00:51									#62
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Burned SUVs?

Burn the ELF. Simple as that.

	05-09-2003 01:39									#63
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SUVs are fun to drive. They are hell to drive next to. I think they should be banned.

	05-09-2003 01:41									#64
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar Tom Clancy is a right-wing, reactionary shithead. And a second-rate writer. I don't expect hick conservatives to enjoy Joyce, but let's raise the bar a little.

There are extreme right-wing environmentalists who believe that humanity shoud be destroyed. The founders of Earth First! for example, believe that smallpox should be reerleased into the wild. These days those horrible creeps work for the Repulican Party while Earth First! has ceased to be a terrorist organization.

	05-09-2003 01:51									#65
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For the love of all that is holy please tell me that you people are not argueing if burning down a warehouse is an enviromentally friendly act.

quote: Originally posted by The Templar Sure, but given they are careful not to harm anyone,

I call BS based on thier attack on an appartment complex in San Diego recently that forced the evacuation of the surrounding area and put the 3 construction workers sleeping onsite in very real peril. This is on top of the unpredictable and dangerous nature of fire in and of itself.

	05-09-2003 01:54									#66
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Yeah, Che. Let's ban some more things. Jackass.

	05-09-2003 01:55									#67
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Yeah, Che. Let's ban some more things. Jackass.

Indy cars aren't street legal...

	05-09-2003 02:18									#68
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check This Out

	05-09-2003 02:25									#69
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SlowwHand, you do realise this is like saying:

All Muslims are Osama
All Americans are couch potatoes
All Russians drink Vodka
All Finns eat elk scrotum

...see?

	05-09-2003 02:28									#70
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mrmitchell: I see 4 true statements you stupid carpetbagger.

	05-09-2003 02:29									#71
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Jackass.

Right back at ya.

	05-09-2003 02:47									#72
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quote: I don't expect hick conservatives to enjoy Joyce

That's kinda elitist for a communist, Templar.

	05-09-2003 03:08									#73
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar First off ELF isn't a terrorist group. Vandals? Sure, but given they are careful not to harm anyone, this only makes them vandals. I'm not terrified by them, so there you go. And talk about conservative reactionary bias in the title of this thread! "Attacked"? Give me a break. I never hear about grafitti artists in my neighborhood "attacking" walls and buildings. I guess Sloww is defining 'attack' down ... As for SUVs getting burned, I won't be shedding any tears. Sorry, but I just don't care. If the police catch the guys who did it, make them pay restitution and do the time or probation or whatever.

How is this not an act of terrorism? Because instead of two buildings being knocked down, or an embassy, it was 'just' a few dozen SUVs?

And suppose I decided to burn down the building of an extremist environmentalist group (after hours, to make sure no one was harmed ) - would that be an act of terrorism, or just vandalism?

	05-09-2003 08:00									#74
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 That's kinda elitist for a communist, Templar.

(1) I'm not a communist (I think I've mentioned this before).

(2) If Clancy were a brilliant novelist and a reactionary shithead I'd have no problem. Good writing is good writing.

	05-09-2003 08:03									#75
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Hell, here's the newsflash for this thread:

quote: Originally posted by Sava I can't comment further on that burning story... I didn't read it or hear about it when it happened.

Sava claiming a lack of factual information is preventing him from contributing an opinion? Am I reading this right???

STOP THE PRESSES!!

	05-09-2003 08:06									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Verto How is this not an act of terrorism? Because instead of two buildings being knocked down, or an embassy, it was 'just' a few dozen SUVs? And suppose I decided to burn down the building of an extremist environmentalist group (after hours, to make sure no one was harmed ) - would that be an act of terrorism, or just vandalism?

If my neighbors spraypaint 'screw Pataki' on my building, it's vandalism. If they beat the ass of all non-Catholics on the block to scare us off, that's terrorism.

Terroism is about scaring people to enforce a political agenda. ELF vandalizes to make a political statement. Call me when they release that virus or whatever .

	05-09-2003 09:52									#77
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I find environmentalists to be frequently ignorant and obnoxious ("oh no, the logging companies are preventing forest fires with selective cutting, thus ruining the natural cycles of delicate ecosystems") However, this is a better cause than usual for ELF. I'd give the perps the average punishment for vandalism of this sort.

	05-09-2003 10:31									#78
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quote: Terroism is about scaring people to enforce a political agenda. ELF vandalizes to make a political statement.

Isn't this a fine line based on these facts? It may not be 'violent', but it just may be to scare those who buy SUVs, that they will be vandalized. Maybe it isn't 'terrorism', but it probably is close.

	05-09-2003 10:36									#79
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Under this definition:

quote: ter·ror·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-rzm) n. The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

it is terrorism, but then again so is the US invasion of Iraq too. And the US invasion of Afghanistan.

	05-09-2003 11:54									#80
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I don't understand what the crime is.

It certainly isn't terrorism.

SUV's should be illegal.

	05-09-2003 12:46									#81
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The real way to stop SUVs though is to make them into an anti-status symbol. So, talk s*** about SUVs and help add to the image that SUV drivers are sexually frustrated people.

	05-09-2003 12:47									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Sava that's not true... eventually, those vehicles would have been scrapped, melted down, and recycled... using polluting fossil fuels... by destroying them, they did prevent the pollution from the projected life of the vehicle. The pollution from the fire would have been released at the end of the vehicle's life, regardless.

Recycling metal is worthwhile, as it take an enormous amount of energy to assemble metal of the same density from ores, and then to smelt it. Of course Detroit stopped using metal in their cares several years ago. The plastics that make up most of these vehicles are not generally economic to recycle from a resource standpoint, only from a waste standpoint.

	05-09-2003 12:50									#83
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 Osweld, how about rebuilding the warehouse? does that cause even more pollution than normal? probably does, dolt.

Good point, especially the dolt at the end. There is a time and a place for ad hominyms, and this is that time and place.

	05-09-2003 12:53									#84
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 i can cope with the big picture by doing little things. By not being a nihilistic enviromentalretard i feel that i can make a difference in every day life. kill yourself osweld. itll help save the planet.

Promise not to recycle him!

	05-09-2003 13:08									#85
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar If my neighbors spraypaint 'screw Pataki' on my building, it's vandalism. If they beat the ass of all non-Catholics on the block to scare us off, that's terrorism. Terroism is about scaring people to enforce a political agenda. ELF vandalizes to make a political statement. Call me when they release that virus or whatever .

Enforce is the wrong term here, as a lot of terrorists aren't enforcing anything, but trying to gain political leverage where they have little. In the case of these a$$holes they live in a democratic republic but can't make their case, so they are relying on political violence to get the attention they so desperately want and don't deserve.

I'm not so quick to dismiss political violence so easily. Teenagers scratching their initials on things, or trashing something is vandalism, destruction for its own sake. It is used as a means of intimidation in this case, which I find just as serious as if the mob torched a few vehicles on a lot whose owner refused to pay protection. While the act doesn't exactly imply that they are willing to use force bodily against those who refuse to knuckle under to their demands, it does show that they are quite willing to violate the rights of anyone who doesn't agree with their agenda. Escalation from this willingness to ignore the rights of others is dangerous, and seems to be the trend.