10-09-2003 22:18									#271
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If Barry hadn't retired early because of a temper tantrum, he would be the all time leader... by a long shot. Emmitt would never have caught him. Barry's speed and moves makes him a far better choice than Emmitt

	10-09-2003 22:23									#272
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quote: I'm sorry, did you take Emmitt Smith over Barry Sanders?

Yep... Barry was amazing to watch, but he had this tendancy to take a bunch of negative yardage carries before springing for an 80 yard gain. Emmitt would at least keep getting you positive yardage. And there isn't a better player at playing hurt.

quote: Big difference between 4.1 and 4.4 when you consider the numbers of attempts. And 38% more yards...

4.1 vs. 4.4 isn't that great of a difference.

38%? Did you mess up your math? It's 28% more yards, BUT also 21% more carries. Allen has more TDs as well with those less carries.

Just be happy I didn't put Eric Dickerson .

	10-09-2003 22:28									#273
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I'm sorry, did you take Emmitt Smith over Barry Sanders? Yep... Barry was amazing to watch, but he had this tendancy to take a bunch of negative yardage carries before springing for an 80 yard gain. Emmitt would at least keep getting you positive yardage.

You think that might have something to do with the Dallas offensive line as compared to the Detroit offensive line?

	10-09-2003 22:30									#274
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quote: You think that might have something to do with the Dallas offensive line as compared to the Detroit offensive line?

Perhaps, but if I was considering offensive lines, it would result in a much greater headache.

And it wasn't just the o-lines. Sanders' style of running lent itself to more negative yardage then a big positive run. All those moves in the backfield, changing fields and such lead to that. I'm not saying he wasn't great, he was. I just think on a team, I may prefer a straight ahead running like Emmitt.

	10-09-2003 22:35									#275
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"Apparently the last two Superbowl winners (TB and NE) LOST their first game. So look at the losers to see who'll go this year ... maybe that is what Miami was thinking."

I think that maybe a bit too much emphasis is placed on the first game of the season. All the time during the season teams have turnarounds (the Rams when they used Bulger) and collapses (the chargers, iirc). The eagles - buccs game was a good example. They're two teams that seem nearly equal in quality, but because the Buccs managed to push it over the top this time, everyone's going to say that they're going to be the BIG TEAM this year. I'm not so sure about that.

I also don't think there's going to be any single team that is going to be as impenetrable this season as last season. I think there's been alot of improvement from the poorer contenders of last year (Texans, Viking, Lions) and some of the greater teams have been slipping (Miami, Packers, Browns).

That said, I think the steelers will be pretty good this year, and if the patriots don't win their next game, I may just stop watching alltogether to spare myself the heartbreak.

	10-09-2003 22:37									#276
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quote: I also don't think there's going to be any single team that is going to be as impenetrable this season as last season. I think there's been alot of improvement from the poorer contenders of last year (Texans, Viking, Lions) and some of the greater teams have been slipping (Miami, Packers, Browns).

Personally I feel the AFC is more wide open than the NFC, at the present. It isn't just because the NFC has the Superbowl winner, either. Of course we definetly could have some surprise NFC teams (Carolina and Seattle, perhaps) which could make things a bit more interesting.

	10-09-2003 22:38									#277
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui 38%? Did you mess up your math? It's 28% more yards,

16728 divided by 12243 = 1.366 or +37 percent more.
You did it backwards dividing 12243 by 16728

(the 38 was typo, meant 37)

	10-09-2003 22:42									#278
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"Personally I feel the AFC is more wide open than the NFC, at the present."

Oh, definitely. I think anyone who would argue against that is blinding themselves due to fan faith.

	10-09-2003 22:46									#279
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Ooops, I confused ' % more yards' with '% less yards'.. that means I did the carries wrong.

Should be 27% more carries.

	10-09-2003 22:49									#280
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NP... was just wondering about your math

	10-09-2003 22:49									#281
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand No they're not. Wait until they play a team with a QB, instead of a RB posing as a QB. It was just the damned Eagles, after all.

How about Rich Gannon... how'd he do against the Bucs D?

	10-09-2003 22:51									#282
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Imram -- Re Payton

1. You quoted career yards. The list is by decades. Look at the stats for the 80s. (Not that it matters. Whether compared over career or per decade, it's Payton hands down.)

2. You say "Al Davis didn't like Allen." I say, Marcus Allen was not a load back. Barely in the team picture. AND got a bunch of his TDs as a goal line specialist late in his career.

MOVING ON --

quote: The 70s QB: Roger Staubach, Dal

Over BRADSHAW????????
Truly a joke.

I also wonder about (not necessarily dispute!) the Swann pick. Never led the league in catches or yards IIRC. In fact, Stallworth beat him on stats several times. I was a huge fan, but there had to be better. (Don Maynard, Otis Taylor, Fred Biletnikov, and Lance Alworth all come to mind, but had a lot of their career time iin the 60s.) To discuss...

	10-09-2003 22:56									#283
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Jesus christ - I can't believe we're playing the eagles next game!!! Good lord, that is going to be tough to win... Do I even want to watch??? I'm scared..

At least I'm pretty confident we can beat the jets the week after, though.

	10-09-2003 23:00									#284
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quote: You quoted career yards. The list is by decades. Look at the stats for the 80s.

I did as well. That would have required a lot of extra work such as counting all the yards and carries in the 80s and calculating my own YPC. I'm not THAT bored... after all I got a bunch of people riled up to talk to me .

Btw, it wasn't like Allen's stats were better in the 90s or whatever .

quote: You say "Al Davis didn't like Allen."

Not just me... just about every pundit noticed that the feud between Davis and Allen manifested itself on the playing field. How else do we account for the fact that Allen rushed for 69 att in 89, 63 att in 91, and 67 att in 92, when he wasn't injured. In 93, after leaving for KC, Allen had 206 att.

quote: Over BRADSHAW????????

Um... YAH!

Staubach:
Comp %: 57%
Yards: 22700
Y/A: 7.7
TD: 153
Int: 109

Bradshaw:
Comp %: 51.9%
Yards: 27989
Y/A: 7.2
TD: 212
Int: 210

	10-09-2003 23:05									#285
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quote: I also wonder about (not necessarily dispute!) the Swann pick. Never led the league in catches or yards IIRC. In fact, Stallworth beat him on stats several times. I was a huge fan, but there had to be better. (Don Maynard, Otis Taylor, Fred Biletnikov, and Lance Alworth all come to mind, but had a lot of their career time iin the 60s.)

I think Swanny is better than Stallworth, personally. Swann got the TDs and big plays. Maynard only played 3 years in the 70s (and not very well). Taylor had some good years in the 70s, but not as good as Swann. Biletnikov is the closest (3rd WR on my team, if he can beat out Cliff Branch ), just got barely beat out by Swann, because of Swann's big game ability. Alworth as well played 3 seasons in the 70s, at the tail end of his career.

The 70s weren't the best time for wideouts.

	10-09-2003 23:10									#286
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I don't understand why you guys obsess over the past...

	10-09-2003 23:12									#287
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Because it is fun to compare .

It's why baseball is such an awesome, compare the stars of the past to the present. Because some of those people were damned good.

After all, the best RB in the history of the game isn't Payton, Allen, Simpson, Dickerson, Smith, Sanders, Dorsett, etc... it's Jim Brown who played in the 50s and 60s and just watching old footage of the man is a treat.

	10-09-2003 23:21									#288
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Oh yes, like how the red sox were phenomenal back in the late 1910s? Maybe I can get into this after all...

	10-09-2003 23:26									#289
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1. Jim Brown was awesome. It's hard to get over my Chicago-centric view of the world to admit it, but as a pure running back, he was the best. (And, geezer that I am, I'm pleased to say that I got to see him play.)

If you put all-around skills into the equation (they seldom threw to Brown), Payton is back in the picture.

2. I'd still like to do some research, but concede that Swann may be the man...

3. Re Bradshaw vs. Staubach -- I don't see anything compelling in your stat check. How about comparing the true measure of a QB's worth -- leadership skills and championships????? (Especially if you limit the discussion to the 70s!!!!)

	10-09-2003 23:27									#290
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mono: Yes... but they stunk soon after. What most people realize is that Ruth's last year in Boston, they finished 6th. So it wasn't like they started losing after they dealt him away.

	10-09-2003 23:34									#291
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quote: Re Bradshaw vs. Staubach -- I don't see anything compelling in your stat check. How about comparing the true measure of a QB's worth -- leadership skills and championships?????

Give Staubach that amazing Pittsburgh defense and I'm sure you'd be crooning over Roger's amazing championships .

And Staubach had no lack of leadership skills??! (and I HATE the Cowboys).

You don't see anything compelling?!! 57% completion percentage vs. 51% completion percentage isn't compelling?! That's a big difference.

quote: If you put all-around skills into the equation (they seldom threw to Brown)

They didn't need to throw to Brown . He could catch though. He had around 20-30 catches a year. Remember this was an era when the top reciever on the Browns had around 30-40 receptions.

	11-09-2003 02:14									#292
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Yeah, buddy!
I don't leave it at talking up a guy here, where it doesn't matter.
No siree.

To the Sports Editor at Tampa newspaper, c.c. to the writer I like at Dallas News.




Dear Mr. Maas,

I wanted to make sure the people of Tampa Bay know exactly what a role-model they have in Joe Jurevicius.
No, I'm not talking about the excellent concentration he showed in making catches Monday night, although that was certainly a pleasure to behold.
What I refer to is the manner Joe conducts himself on the playing field.
When he makes a play, he gets up and HANDS the ball to the referee, without excessive celebration for doing his job.
Not tosses. Hands the ball.
How refreshing in these days of pampered and spoiled athletes.

Most Sincerely,

Sloww Hand
Texas

	11-09-2003 02:22									#293
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I didn't know he had a premature son that died this year... That really sucks...

	11-09-2003 02:29									#294
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I didn't know jack about him until Monday night really.

	11-09-2003 02:37									#295
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Hey, Slow... back your boy Staubach against people who say Bradshaw is better .

	11-09-2003 03:03									#296
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I figure if they're so stupid they say Bradsghaw over Staubach, they aren't worth my notice.

They call themselves football-knowledgeable?
Ha! My lily-white ass.

	11-09-2003 03:05									#297
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Imran that's a pretty funny list.

Emmit Smth RB?
Okay, debateable.

Rathman FB?
Don't think so.

How did Emmitt get all his yards? Great O-line sure, but he also had another thing Sanders didn't have:

A FB named Darryl "Moose" Johnston, the best FB of the 90's.

And I hate Dallas.

ACK!

	11-09-2003 03:11									#298
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Dallas hates you back. Call it evenl.

	11-09-2003 03:21									#299
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Sloww: I assume the Tampa paper you're talking of is the Tribune?

	11-09-2003 03:25									#300
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Yes. The Tribune.