05-09-2003 16:18									#1
	is population growth a good thing? Enter the AD-FREE zone

I live in London, which must be one of the busiest, most congested cities in the World.

This summer I travelled to Australia which must be the least busiest, least congested place in the World!!

Visiting Oz, I noticed that people were much more relaxed and happy. People spoke to each other. There was no road rage. The air was clean. Animals and the environment were cherished.

Obviously as a tourist you tend to see things through rose tinted glasses, but I couldn't help linking the good things to the space everyone had.

My point is that the current UK government's plan is to keep increasing the population in England. My question is why?

Environmentalist are against building new homes, airports, roads and all the other things more people will need. The pollution levels in London are appalling and anti-social behaviour is at its highest ever.

Surely if we reined in population growth, perhaps even reduced it, then everyone would be happier?

Well it's a new debate that I haven't heard before anyway!! So please let me know what you think...

	05-09-2003 16:19									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

it is, when it is limited.

	05-09-2003 21:03									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

population growth can be good, it depends on who is fruitful and multiplies.. poor people should abstain, since their procreation only increases poverty levels

	05-09-2003 21:06									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing kill everyone bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing

	05-09-2003 21:09									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing kill everyone bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing bad thing

How much coffee have you had today so far?

	05-09-2003 21:12									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: poor people should abstain, since their procreation only increases poverty levels.

Assumes a stratified society. Let's keep the poor in their place.

I say population growth is good, and that you are looking at only the negative aspects of London. When properly managed, population growth can be much less burdensome, than you notice in London. More of a fault of the cityplanners, than the population growth.

	05-09-2003 21:17									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

The biggest population problem is that there's just enough of me and way, way too much of you.

	05-09-2003 21:24									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Population growth is good as long as it doesn't exceed the ability to sustain such itself.

	05-09-2003 21:26									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

Population growth is almost always a good thing.

It helps build a vibrant economy and society.

	05-09-2003 21:35									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by MrFun How much coffee have you had today so far?

I don't drink coffee.

Seriously, everywhere is too crowded, the planet is already stretched to sustain everyone, and people suck. Thus more people will suck more, and we'll all collapse into a state of infinite suckiness.

	05-09-2003 21:39									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think some areas of the world are overpopulated... the US, however, has room for growth.

	05-09-2003 21:40									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

There's too many people in the US already. How the hell am I gonna buy a beach house with 300 million Americans around?

	05-09-2003 21:40									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Oh and that's the other thing. There's already too many americans.

	05-09-2003 21:55									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

You can't just grow forever. Also I think people tend to behave like animals in places with very high populations. I see it here in NYC every day.

	05-09-2003 22:01									#15
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

pop growth is fantastic, you just need a good world war every so often....

	05-09-2003 22:09									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

some 'good' news for you moosie. the only gorwth we're likely to see in england is from immigrants, until the natives can muster that magic 2.1 birthrate :/

	05-09-2003 22:17									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

too much clubbing too little ****ging.


honestly, I think that if there are conditions in which the influx of new kids will become good people and productive citizens, and the enviromental impact is minimized, populationg growth is positive.

We have to rethink our society. Our previous society had a problem of overgrowth, and was based on inequality. Our current society is more sexually egalitarian, but a demographical collapse looms. We need something new. something sexually equal, and with no demographical problems of any kind.

	05-09-2003 22:19									#18
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I hate cities.

	05-09-2003 22:24									#19
	Get a bigger avatar today!

hey gimme a break, i'm only 19, my family have done their bit, i'm one of 5 kids

would be a great chat-up line wouldn't it: 'y'know you wanna luv, it'll be great fun and besides, if i get you up the duff we'll be doing the country a favour init.'

	05-09-2003 22:29									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

"take one for the team, girl!"

	05-09-2003 22:29									#22
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I'm not breeding. I have no intention of breeding. I may adopt, and I'm thinking about being a foster parent for teens.

	05-09-2003 22:32									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

why not?
a)one doesn't exclude the other.
b)I've always thought of it as one of the things a person must do to call their lives complete.

	05-09-2003 22:55									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

Any fool can breed. I'd rather spend my efforts on taking over the world.

	05-09-2003 22:58									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: I'm not breeding

Good

Population Growth is a good thing, IMO. So long as we don't exceede our capacity, which I think we have. But, that is why I like gay people; they are doing their best to curb pop. growth!

	05-09-2003 23:00									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

That's real funny, Eli.

	05-09-2003 23:04									#27
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by DanS Population growth is almost always a good thing. It helps build a vibrant economy and society.

Tell that to Brazil and Peru.

Population growth can be economically beneficial to a point. Assume more work than people, sufficient educational resources to train people for the available work, and sufficient environment to sustain these people.

Europe is hitting the more work than people problem, thus the rising immigration. Whereas Japan has successfully automated much of its production and is actually facing the problem that it has overinvested in educational resources versus the available work. (Keep in mind that "overinvestment in education" is a capitalist's euphemism for too many people trying to achieve their full potential versus market demand). Peru has too little work AND overinvestment in overall education (my last cab driver in Lima had a degree in engineering).

Regions in the US are approaching an environmental capacity problem. SoCal and Las Vegas for instance are demanding too much water - and taking too much from other areas. Or look at either Austin or Dallas where the increasing sprawl of suburbia is raising air pollution levels and decreasing overall quality of life (both in terms of environment and excessive commute times).

What you probably meant to say is that societies should increase to optimal population and then maintain that number.

	05-09-2003 23:08									#28
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Azazel why not? a)one doesn't exclude the other. b)I've always thought of it as one of the things a person must do to call their lives complete.

I am more than my biological programming. I don't need to create genetic "copies" of myself to create a legacy.

Anyway, this is a rotten wold to bring people into and there are already exiting kids who need good homes and parents to love them.

	05-09-2003 23:12									#29
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by The Templar ...societies should increase to optimal population and then maintain that number.

!!!

Optimal number for the world is perhaps a tenth of what there is now, maybe a good deal less. IMHO.

	05-09-2003 23:28									#30
	Got spare money?

quote: I am more than my biological programming. I don't need to create genetic "copies" of myself to create a legacy.

Of course you're MORE than that. That's why you should raise them well. That and common decency. But don't forget that you're a biological being, too. It's your chance to make the world a better place, as well as leaving a small legacy in the world, even if otherwise, you're on of millions of people that change little to nothing in this world.

quote: Anyway, this is a rotten wold to bring people into and there are already exiting kids who need good homes and parents to love them.

a) This is NOT a rotten world to bring people into. It's the best world ever for humans. Once again, you show that amazing quality of people in the western world: not apperciate what you've got.
b) The other part is very much correct, And If you plan to adopt instead of having kids by yourself ( you and your SO, of course. ) Your position is OK ( not right, but OK). Yet you don't seem to be too sure of that yourself.

Of course, kids are an IMMENSE responsibility. But one has to do it. Otherwise, one has done NOTHING in this world. Unless he's a famous scientist, leading politician, or an amazing artist.