06-09-2003 20:37									#31
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does it mean all power goes back to Arafat or will there be a newly elected PM shortly?

or will the world cease to exist within the next 3 days due to an all out worldwide nuclear war?

	06-09-2003 21:06									#32
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Well, this will make it more difficult for both parties to feign interest in peace, at least for a while.

	06-09-2003 21:09									#33
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Speaking of the masked men who appeared outside of the PLC when Abu Mazen gave his speech, and held signs with Arafat and threatened Aby Mazen...

According to a report on CNN, they identified themselves as being Al-Aqsa operatives.

If you forget, Al-Aqsa are the terrorist brigade of the Fatah, who answer to... Arafat.

Furthermore, Israel uncovered documents proving that Arafat directly pays their salaries.

	06-09-2003 21:11									#34
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then why is Arafat not officially accused of supporting terrorism and therefore liqiudated? martyr danger?

(why) does the west not officially recognise the deep twirling between Arafat's organisation and terrorist groups?

	06-09-2003 21:23									#35
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quote: or will the world cease to exist within the next 3 days due to an all out worldwide nuclear war?

I think that's scheduled for Thursday.

	06-09-2003 21:25									#36
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OK.

anyone else enjoyed the all out nuclear combat in T3?

	06-09-2003 21:28									#37
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If Israel liquidated Arafat, even more hell would break loose. Plus, just by being alive and in front of the PLO for 40 years, he has enough legitimacy for the UN to get pissed at Israel if they off him.

On the other hand, exile is a real possibility...I hope he's still a fan of Tunisia.

And it's just Europe that's pretending that Arafat isn't associated with terrorism.

	06-09-2003 21:32									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion then why is Arafat not officially accused of supporting terrorism and therefore liqiudated? martyr danger? (why) does the west not officially recognise the deep twirling between Arafat's organisation and terrorist groups?

Well, Israel hasn't acted against Arafat except to isolate him because they've promised the US that they wouldn't. And the US and EU don't want actions against Arafat because it might martyr him and complicate the situation, and also because wittling his power by isolating him might work better at getting him off the scene then expelling him. Of course, it didn't help matters when some European countries (I'm looking at you, again, France) refused to meet with Abbas and instead met with Arafat...

Of course, expelling now looks more and more feasable.

	06-09-2003 21:32									#39
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quote: then why is Arafat not officially accused of supporting terrorism and therefore liqiudated? martyr danger?

Because we are waiting for the rest of the world to recognize that.

The US already has, and has given us a green light. I think we're going to wait a bit more for europe, and eventually Arafat will not remain to see 2004 in power.

quote: (why) does the west not officially recognise the deep twirling between Arafat's organisation and terrorist groups?

For the same reasons that it took so long for France to recognize Hamas as a terrorist movement.

	06-09-2003 21:35									#40
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namely? we're just all being anti-semites?

	06-09-2003 21:41									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov For the same reasons that it took so long for France to recognize Hamas as a terrorist movement.

And that reason is money. It is time for France and the EU to step up on terrorism. If they continue to shield people like Arafat in the name of looking out for their influence in the reason then the split in the west will get worse. I think that the US is pretty close to being done with those who deal terror. 9/11 woke up a lot of people here. It may be impossible for us to ever go back to the political games that allowed terror to become the force it is. Finally we are recognizing that Israel has been shouting the truth for far longer than many want to admit.

	06-09-2003 22:44									#42
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO And that reason is money. It is time for France and the EU to step up on terrorism.

Really? How much is Arafat paying us?

	06-09-2003 22:50									#43
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Oh, it's true. All the French people I know are personally in the pocket of Arafat. Those evil Frenchies.

	06-09-2003 22:52									#44
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler Really? How much is Arafat paying us?

It is not what he is paying you (duh!), but the financial support that you give to the Palestinians under the guise of "relief" efforts. Somehow this money doesn't find its way to the people now does it? Since it does have to go somewhere, it wouldn't suprise me if your comment wasn't truer than you think . This financial "aid" gives the Euros a voice with the Pals that they try to use to make "backroom" deals. Obviously, the deals aren't about stopping terrorism, now are they? Like I said...You guys need to step up on this issue and quit worrying about trying to be a big player on the international block. You can achieve this far easier through actions to solve the problem than through confrontation to look powerful and maintain dubious influence.

	06-09-2003 22:56									#45
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"Somehow this money doesn't find its way to the people now does it?"

Based on what?

"This financial "aid" gives the Euros a voice with the Pals that they try to use to make "backroom" deals. Obviously, the deals aren't about stopping terrorism, now are they?"

About what are they then? Olive oil deals?

"You can achieve this far easier through actions to solve the problem than through confrontation to look powerful and maintain dubious influence."

Yes, you really should reconsider your policy towards Sharon.

	06-09-2003 22:58									#46
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler "Somehow this money doesn't find its way to the people now does it?" Based on what? "This financial "aid" gives the Euros a voice with the Pals that they try to use to make "backroom" deals. Obviously, the deals aren't about stopping terrorism, now are they?" About what are they then? Olive oil deals? "You can achieve this far easier through actions to solve the problem than through confrontation to look powerful and maintain dubious influence." Yes, you really should reconsider your policy towards Sharon.

I love how you answer questions with questions Care to try any real answers?

	06-09-2003 22:59									#47
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Not as long as you spout around a load of silly premises.

	06-09-2003 23:06									#48
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler Not as long as you spout around a load of silly premises.

quote: France will give 7.14 million euro (about 6.28 million U.S. dollars) in aid to Palestine in 2002, one-fourth of which will go to educational cooperation, the French Foreign Ministry announced Wednesday. "Our cooperation, all fields included, will rise to 7.14 million euro. As projects progress, the financing will be reevaluated," said Francois Rivasseau, spokesman of the French ministry. Two important parts, totaling at about 2 million euro (about 1. 76 million euro) mostly for modernization of education system, will be added to the existing programs of traditional cooperation (training of manager and university scholarship), said Rivasseau. Some 2.25 million euro (about 1.98 million dollars) will be injected into institutional cooperation "in support of the establishment of a Palestinian State," he said. France will also reinforce its cooperation with Palestine in social development and health, he added. On his part, visiting Palestinian Minister of International Cooperation Nabil Chaath told reporters: "France is also engaged to maintain its aid in the construction of a Palestinian port." Earlier in the month, the European Union communicated to the Israeli government its "strong rejection" to the destruction of Palestinian buildings and infrastructure that were financed by the Europeans, such as the airport and port of Gaza. The damages of the installations -- jointly invested by France, the Netherlands and the Investment Bank of Europe -- were estimated at about 335,000 euro (about 294,800 dollars).

How abot that $2.25 million in "institutional co-operation"? Not to mention the fact that none of these other projects are off the ground in spite of the fact that the money was delivered.

Silly premises?

How 'bout now? Got any REAL answers?

	06-09-2003 23:16									#49
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler "Somehow this money doesn't find its way to the people now does it?" Based on what?

Based on both intelligence, and the situation as you see it on the ground.

Arafat's compounds in Gaza and Ramallah have been bombed a dozen time, and have been rebuilt always.

But Palestinains still have absolutely no income insirance or anything.

quote: "This financial "aid" gives the Euros a voice with the Pals that they try to use to make "backroom" deals. Obviously, the deals aren't about stopping terrorism, now are they?" About what are they then? Olive oil deals?

What about natural gas deals?

Several european contractors have all bean eager to drill, extract, move and resell huge quantities of natural gas found on the shores of Gaza. I think a British company has recieved rights, but the deal is blocked so far, since Israel, the most probably and profitable client, doesn't want to buy it's gas from the Pals.

	06-09-2003 23:29									#50
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So, those projects in education, infrastructure etc don't exist, and it all goes to rebuilding Arafat's compound? Is that your point? Or are you claiming that the EU is funding palestinian terrorists?

	07-09-2003 00:39									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov quote: then why is Arafat not officially accused of supporting terrorism and therefore liqiudated? martyr danger? Because we are waiting for the rest of the world to recognize that. The US already has, and has given us a green light. I think we're going to wait a bit more for europe, and eventually Arafat will not remain to see 2004 in power. quote: (why) does the west not officially recognise the deep twirling between Arafat's organisation and terrorist groups? For the same reasons that it took so long for France to recognize Hamas as a terrorist movement.

IIRC, the Bush administration has implied that if Abbas resigned for inability to follow the roadmap due to Arafat's interference (which is exactly what just happened), they would officially wash their hands of the matter, and let Israel do what they have to do.

	07-09-2003 00:55									#52
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The problem is, the separation into militant and political wings worked for the IRA (Sein Fein (sp?)). Because the recognition of the political side as a legitimate entity allowed a peace process to be successful, I think many in the EU believe it will also work in the case of Hamas, et al.

My problem with that is that they are not taking cultural and political differences into consideration. Because of the basic differences in power structure, Sein Fein's "word" has weight, while Hamas' political wing has none.

	07-09-2003 01:24									#53
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Arafats time needs to end. Do what you need to do Israel.

You realize that would cause a full-scale uprising by the Palestinians, right?

	07-09-2003 01:28									#54
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quote: You realize that would cause a full-scale uprising by the Palestinians, right?

Hey Che... This is not September 27th 2000 anymore. A full-scale uprising is in progress for almost three years now.

	07-09-2003 01:31									#55
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara You realize that would cause a full-scale uprising by the Palestinians, right?

Cause up until now they've only been half hearted.

	07-09-2003 01:32									#56
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Recall Arafat!

	07-09-2003 01:33									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Recall Arafat!

	07-09-2003 01:58									#58
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Wow. Yet another Mideast peace plan teeters on the brink of the abyss. Am I surprised? Nope.

	07-09-2003 02:23									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Recall Arafat!

God will do that soon, he's about 78 Maybe the Isrealis think the best thing to do is wait.

	07-09-2003 02:29									#60
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I believe it's been said that members of his family routinely live into their nineties.