06-09-2003 23:05									#1
	Conquests and PTW Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

i for one will have both exspansion packs. The thing is that PTW civs come only in PTW and Counquests civs onley in Conquests and was wondering if i could play the people that onley have PTW or Onley conquests when i play online, or they could play me.

	07-09-2003 02:16									#2
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Conquests has both Conquests civs and PTW civs (and everything else from PTW)

You can play players from either version, but you can't use the new rules added for Conquest when playing a player who uses PTW.

Clear things up?

	07-09-2003 10:50									#3
	Got spare money?

thanks m8.

one more question, Can the people with onley conquest use PTW civs and the people with onley PTW use conquest civs?

	07-09-2003 18:54									#4
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quote: Originally posted by kermit_the_frog thanks m8. one more question, Can the people with onley conquest use PTW civs and the people with onley PTW use conquest civs?

hi ,

c3c people can use all the options from ptw , ptw people cant use the options from c3c , .......

have a nice day

	07-09-2003 22:31									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It makes sense, that the people who have PTW only don't get to play Conquest for free.

Any of the new rules (Enslavement, Disasters, etc) won't be availible to a player with just Play the World

	07-09-2003 23:30									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

it isnt fear that the conquest people get the PTW civs and rules

	08-09-2003 00:41									#7
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Actually it is fair. It would be the stupidest thing if there were only Conquest stuff in there since PTW has already been released.

	08-09-2003 00:56									#8
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quote: Originally posted by kermit_the_frog it isnt fear that the conquest people get the PTW civs and rules

hi ,

thats why c3c is an other XP , an other layer of new stuff , ......

you dont buy a model 2002 car and then take into the shop a year later to ask to exchenge it for a newer model , ......

have a nice day

	08-09-2003 22:57									#9
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It is still a little unfair for the people who went out and bought PTW. Although, in case of Civ and Sid I do not hold it against them, since they bring out the best of games.

So long...

	09-09-2003 00:31									#10
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Master Actually it is fair. It would be the stupidest thing if there were only Conquest stuff in there since PTW has already been released.

I have to differ with you on this.

PTW was a disaster of a release and ATARI is trying to bury it by essentially re-releasing it along with the new context in Conquests.

This might be an increadibly great deal for those who held off with PTW, and for those of us who don't care for paying another $30 for content we thought we paid for last year, but for people like me, starvign college students, spending $60 last year and this year, and knowing Coquests includes PTW material I paid for last year makes me want to puke at Atari.

There is no attempt to acknowledge to the people out there who will have a soon to be useless PTW CD that their purchase matters and Atari will make some concessions for these people, with rebates or just releasing a Conquests LITE with only the new content so players with PTW can upgrade.

I'm not speaking in terms of the abstract of making unreasonable demands either. EA is releasing a Sim City 4 Deluxe with the core game and expansion. In order to keep the people who bought the core game in Janaury happy and satisfied and feeling like they matter, EA priced the xpansion pack for $20 and will have a special promo offer offering $10 rebate in North America for all those who bought the xpansion pack. Essentially an additional discount and thank you for buying Sim City 4 right off the gate.

Atari may not have the financial resources EA has, but it is absurd for them to sell us a game twice and make absolutely no attempt at accomodating PTW owners. This whole past year has essentially be a paid Beta test program for PTW, where Atari profited from releasing an incomplete game and instead of paying for beta testers, they have people buy the game and beta test it for them. If they get away with this, you think they won't do it with Pirates 2?

Sid "I think we need another 6 months"
Atari "don't worry. The idiots called our consumers will buy your game NOW, because they're watering in the mouth just thinking about it. We'll hype up all the features, even the ones that don't quite work yet and have the consumers do the Q&A for us"

Sid " How much are you charging the consumers?"

Atari " Full price. In November of next year, we will then include all the 'bug' fixes , and have the art team throw in a few ship designs and textures, and we'll call it Pirates 2 - Global Expedition and sell the core game and the new content back to them at full price yet again"

	09-09-2003 01:24									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer It is still a little unfair for the people who went out and bought PTW. Although, in case of Civ and Sid I do not hold it against them, since they bring out the best of games. So long...

hi ,

what the heck is unfair about it , ......


many of you dont know this but originally there was not even an other XP planned , ......

so , ones again , what the heck is unfair about it , ..........


have a nice day

	09-09-2003 01:32									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by panag hi , what the heck is unfair about it , ...... many of you dont know this but originally there was not even an other XP planned , ...... so , ones again , what the heck is unfair about it , .......... have a nice day

So we should be thankful to Atari for another XP? Are you insane? And why was there another xp?

PTW sold well. Atari saw more $$$.

I'm not thankful for this XP when the very reason this f'ing XP is being made, PTW's good sales, is being ignored.

Atari has made absolutely no concessions to the people that made this third XP possible. And you of all people panag, the happy Civver who is dancing for this third XP should thank the rest of the Civ community who bought PTW for making tihs one possible.

	09-09-2003 02:48									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by dexters So we should be thankful to Atari for another XP? Are you insane? And why was there another xp? PTW sold well. Atari saw more $$$. I'm not thankful for this XP when the very reason this f'ing XP is being made, PTW's good sales, is being ignored. Atari has made absolutely no concessions to the people that made this third XP possible. And you of all people panag, the happy Civver who is dancing for this third XP should thank the rest of the Civ community who bought PTW for making tihs one possible.

one you have all the facts you can start to trow mud , ...... atari had nothing to do with the second XP , .......

as for the PTW sales , ones again get your facts , ......

and switch disk , this one start to get boring , .....

there are plenty of sites where you can post your feelings , these sites where created only for that purpose , .......

	09-09-2003 04:18									#14
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and have a nice day!

	09-09-2003 04:36									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It seems fair to me that Conquests will include the PTW content. I bought PTW and I still think was a good purchase. Just because I will end up paying for PTW content twice doesn't mean I have to resent those who will be getting everything for the Conquests price. The more content the better. I don't know about the rest of you but I have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of PTW and can't wait for the new XP.

	09-09-2003 04:43									#16
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quote: one you have all the facts you can start to trow mud , ...... atari had nothing to do with the second XP , ....... as for the PTW sales , ones again get your facts , ...... and switch disk , this one start to get boring , ..... there are plenty of sites where you can post your feelings , these sites where created only for that purpose , .......

PTW sold pretty well, it was mentioned in one of the post PTW chat sessions. Are you saying it sold poorly?

And what do you mean ATARI has nothing to do with the second XP? They are the publishers. The give the final say. Moo3's developer QS software WANTS TO DO AN XP. Atari doesn't want to because the game sold poorly. That was the end of that idea. The only reason there is a C3C is because Atari wants it to happen. Whether Firaxis wants it is secondary.

	09-09-2003 05:36									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Defcon5 and have a nice day!

You know panag is furious when he forgets to wish you a nice day! And he didn't even say Hi either!

	09-09-2003 05:53									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I once commented that Panag is the most courteous poster around since he always ends with "have a nice day"

This is an emotional issue I suppose.

I'm still angry at Atari for how they plan to release Conquests, but I understand all of us in here are civvers, on the same boat, with the same interests.

It's good to have a laugh now and then.

hehe

	09-09-2003 16:18									#19
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , what the heck is unfair about it , ...... many of you dont know this but originally there was not even an other XP planned , ...... so , ones again , what the heck is unfair about it , .......... have a nice day

I still do not see why you don't see it.

From a sellers/marketeers perspective it makes sense to sell it so that everybody that has Civ3 can buy it. If you could only install it on top of PTW, they would've limited their market. By offering the PTW content with Conquests they just make the productive more attractive but they also rip off the people that bought PTW.

As an example we can take a series like "The Sopranos", buying the whole second season does not entitle you to the first season.

On the other side I usually spend $30 every month for magazines and DVDs, paying that for an expansion that ads so much value in terms of fun and hours is ok.

So long....

and by the way

have a nice day.....

	09-09-2003 16:47									#20
	Suffering from ads?

Actually I think that it is a good thing that they are including PTW with conquests. They sure didn't have to. However well PTW sold, it did not sell as well as the original CIV3. This hopefully will reenergize some who bought CIV3 and did not get PTW. So you paid the $$ for PTW, so what? You got a year's worth of content the non buyers didn't and you get a leg up on how to play C3C. If they had stopped after PTW would you be happier??? The release of PTW kept interest high and C3C will do the same. If they release another XP next year then so much the better! Keep 'em coming Atari!!

BTW, I have never seen panag forget the "hi" and "have a nice day" before eithier.

	09-09-2003 23:49									#21
	Tired of ads?

The point being made is NOT to deny people who don't have PTW of the game.

But it would be NICE if Atari recognized quite a few people bought PTW and released a version of Conquests , lets call it Conquests LITE for a lower price for PTW users where all they need to do is install and upgrade their content.

Those people who don't have PTW can still buy the C3C full version.

Atari's current Civ3 xp strategy is very unique, and strange. As far as I can remember, no publisher in recent memory has repackaged last year's XP into this year's XP. The least they could do is not act like it's business as usual on the product pricing front. There are people out there, like me, who feel they've duped me out of my $30. It's especially hard for me since I just got PTW in May. Less than a year.

The real irony here is, Atari /Firaxis is still selling PTW on the Civ3.com website. I'm sure there are plenty of casual gamers out there not following the Civ scene closely who will buy PTW thinking Conquests will be a new XP. Do you find it strange that PTW's inclusion in C3C is NOT LISTED in the C3C features list on the official website? Atari hiding from consumer anger? I think so.

Last edited by dexters on 10-09-2003 at 01:04

	10-09-2003 02:58									#22
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Panag, if I remember correctly did not use have a nice day in a thread in the help forum a little while ago when responding to vmxa1's post, because vxma1 made a negative comment about it in a previous post. Just a little forum trivia for anyone who cares.

	10-09-2003 03:29									#23
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So Panag disrespects people who disagrees with him?
hmmmm

	10-09-2003 05:32									#24
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quote: Originally posted by dexters But it would be NICE if Atari recognized quite a few people bought PTW and released a version of Conquests , lets call it Conquests LITE for a lower price for PTW users where all they need to do is install and upgrade their content.

That or a rebate for PTW owners would be a good idea. But regardless, I'm glad Conquests is coming out.

	10-09-2003 08:51									#25
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Sure it would be nice to get a cheaper price or rebate. But $30 for a year of PTW is not to bad...less than a dime a day. If you go to Yahoo, its $4.95 to play for 3 days. Pretty cost effective way to play IMO. Do I eel ripped off? NO. Would I accept a discount? YES. Will I buy C3C without a discount? On the first day! If Atari had said they would let you play C3C a year before its release for $30 and then after the year you had the option to buy it and an expansion pack, what would you have said?

	10-09-2003 10:08									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

$30 is not bad? That's the standard price for XPs. Core games go for only $15 more.

I think those who didn't buy PTW are getting a good deal. And I will say that I am happy for them.

But as a consumer who did buy PTW, and I boughbt my copy just this April, $30 is not a good deal, since a good amount of content in C3C will be PTW.

	10-09-2003 11:51									#27
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by dexters $30 is not bad? That's the standard price for XPs. Core games go for only $15 more. I think those who didn't buy PTW are getting a good deal. And I will say that I am happy for them. But as a consumer who did buy PTW, and I boughbt my copy just this April, $30 is not a good deal, since a good amount of content in C3C will be PTW.

If you buy a 2002 model car. DO you feel screwed if you have to pay a full price for the 2003 model since it includes all the features of the previous one + improvements?

	11-09-2003 02:52									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer I still do not see why you don't see it. From a sellers/marketeers perspective it makes sense to sell it so that everybody that has Civ3 can buy it. If you could only install it on top of PTW, they would've limited their market. By offering the PTW content with Conquests they just make the productive more attractive but they also rip off the people that bought PTW. As an example we can take a series like "The Sopranos", buying the whole second season does not entitle you to the first season. On the other side I usually spend $30 every month for magazines and DVDs, paying that for an expansion that ads so much value in terms of fun and hours is ok. So long.... and by the way have a nice day.....

hi ,

read again , first check to see for what the post you quoted was a reply for , ..........

have a nice day

	11-09-2003 02:54									#29
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by statusperfect If you buy a 2002 model car. DO you feel screwed if you have to pay a full price for the 2003 model since it includes all the features of the previous one + improvements?

hi ,

you have given the answer yourself , " + improvements " , .......

its an XP , .....


and many people shall pay with a great smile on their faces them 30 bucks , .......

have a nice day

	11-09-2003 07:37									#30
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect If you buy a 2002 model car. DO you feel screwed if you have to pay a full price for the 2003 model since it includes all the features of the previous one + improvements?

Buying cars is differet. Cars have practical use value. There may be status and other emotional values as well. In terms of games, it's primarily the entertainment value we are buying and it's intellectual property, meaning it costs very little to make additional copies. All the costs are in the first unit. Not true for cars.

Your analogy assumes the car industry is the same as the software industry. Which is clearly false.

I repeat my claims

#1 What Atari is doing is UNUSUAL. But they are pricing the product as if its business as usual. Ignoring entirely the fact that a segment of the end users will have PTW.

#2 If publishers did what Atari is doing routinely, perhaps it would be better. But the fact of the matter is, Atari is doing something UNSUAL. They are re-selling content they already sold to the users last year and making no price adjustments.

Instead of telling me why I should be happy for Atari, how about explain to me what justifies Atari's actions, when companies like Blizzard, release fully formed XPs at the same price (no rehashing of content) or EA releases XPs at $20 ($10 cheaper) and then throws in another $10 rebate for users, no rehashing of content either. Atari's XP package in contrast, looks like a massive profiteering scheme.