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Captain Nemo
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Red Front
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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Djugashvili: Here is what the issue is with the "Too many units"...:
The game is not too near the maximum number of units allowed when you start (Approx. 1600 vs max 2048?). However, the German strategy of 1941, which is one of the key elements of the game and gives the "unstoppable German war machine" feel relies on creating units progressively nearer to the front line. This is done by events triggered by the killing of units...
So depending on your game strategy those numbers can vary greatly. I reduced the numbers in play at the beginning of the game significantly since version 1.3 and neither myself nor other testplayers ran into the problem with 1.4... However I cannot test every style of play. If a lot of fighting goes on early on and the German lose a bunch of units they recreate them in greater numbers and before you know it you're over the limit again. Taking off another 50 starting units won't help that much if you play an aggressive style in 1941... On the other hand if I reduce the unit creation events, there won't be enough to achieve historical results in 1941 if you play a "defensive" style and pull units Eastward ahead of the Germans.
As you can see there is no easy fix! Otherwise I would have done it.
I already significantly reduced defending units in Western German cities since they aren't needed until 1944.
One factor that helps: The problem goes away by Dec 1941 because Germans stop creating units at such a high rate. I have never seen the problem in 1942 in any version. You could eliminate a few more German starting units from each of the "large" stacks in Eastern Poland without risking to affect gameplay too much.
Also cut out more of the defending units in Western Germany. (But many cities already are down to 1 or 2 defenders).
BTW, most of the changes in 1.4 were not to fix this problem but rather to improve the late gameplay in 1944-45.
[This message has been edited by Captain Nemo (edited March 19, 2000).]
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Is the scenario available for download somewhere?
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Captain Nemo
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Red Front
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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I sent it to StLeo and Alex yesterday... They have yet to place it on their sites. I sent it in parallel to a number of gamers who requested it so that's how they have it already.
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Captain Nemo
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Red Front
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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DarthVeda:
You're welcome to do it. Remember John Petroski is making a new "Austieg" which will include the attack on the Soviet Union, changes of seasons and many of the Red Front graphics... and new ones that I am making right now.
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Djugashvili
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by day, Cher impersonator by night
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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So Nemo, what you're saying is is that I should just wait the few extra turns without building any units until December, then the problem should go away? I'll do that, just as long as the problem doesn't spill over into other parts of the scenario...
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Mao
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Apolyton
Jun 1999
time: 00:13
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yeah, send it to apolyton, 'bout time they get some good scenarios there (no offense) sure the server's big enough markos? it's 5 sections
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Captain Nemo
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Red Front
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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Yes, it's tougher... And the Germans continue to fight all the way to the end while their military equipment improves!
The endplay isn't that easy either, but you'll still win if you stick to the basic strategy of version 1.3
[This message has been edited by Captain Nemo (edited March 21, 2000).]
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Captain Nemo
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Red Front
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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No it shouldn't matter where the files are located as long as the .bat is in the same directory as the files it accesses and that the sound directory is a subdirectory of that directory.
Here is the next step: Event triggered reloads.
For example: On capture of town X behind German lines "Town X captured, German 6th Army is encircled in Stalingrad, supply route to... is cut off. Panzers are running out of fuel & the Wehrmacht is starving. Save game now and run Redfront.bat and execute option 18"
Option 18 loads a new rules.txt file where the Panzer movement is 0 and the Wehrmacht is a air unit with a move of 1 and 3 turns airborne (They will "crash" if they don't reach safety within 3 turns)
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Captain Nemo
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Red Front
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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Field Marshal Klesh:
Unfortunately the leader name change isn't as easy as 1-2-3... It' not in the rules.txt file, it's in the .sav file. And of course you can't just replace that file without reloading all the rest of the game, like unit positions, terrain and city improvements, tech advances, city sizes etc.
My thought goes far beyond this: I need to find a compiler that allows me to create an exe file that "manipulates" the .sav files.
I would now "read" unit positions, improvements and technology advances etc... and edit them into another file: This would allow a game where campaigns are played on small scale detailed maps on a day to day or hour to hour basis and then "imported" into the global map.
Here is an example: You could play Normandy with an hour-by-hour first day with the map being just the beaches and immediate surroundings then switch to a "France" map where the goals are to get to the Rhine in weekly turns. The key is to transfer the units and captured cities from the small map to the larger one. I can easily do it with the Hex editor BUT it needs to be automatic, hence a batch executable hex editing program...
Any suggestions on what programming language would be the best suited?
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Captain Nemo
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Red Front
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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I looked at C++ and Visual Basic compilers today... Of course they are geared towards building slick Windows applications not auto-editing Hexfiles and the boxes don't talk much about what hex-editing commands are included...
I don't know much about these new types of Compilers and the "Visual" environment. I have written quite a few programs in the old MS pro-basic and QBX as well as C but that was in the DOS days... how do these newer compilers work, do they have micro-programming tools like the old ones did?
Anyone that has experience with this type of work is urged to answer...Thanks
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Captain Nemo
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Red Front
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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Absolutely right...
The first time you run the bat file it "tries" to delete the events out of the non existent rf.sav and gives you an error... I could simply omit the delevents command in the first load, but I used it anytime I was testing changes to the events file during 1941 (If you run the bat file in August, for example, after saving rf.sav, it deletes the events and loads any new event file with the name events1.txt) I left it in for that purpose.
Yes, the first turn is June 1941 which was only 1 week (The attack was the 22nd) so I thought it appropriate that the Germans would be the only ones to move in that Month... A few Soviet units can also be moved by a quirk in Civ2 since technically the Soviet player has not had his turn in June. Any event created units will definitely be allowed to move (Partisans)
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Captain Nemo
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Red Front
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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If you can accomplish something by unfortifying the units in June and moving them, do it! There is NOTHING you can do in the summer of 1941 that will significantly change the outcome of the war for the better... There are lots of things you can do (And not do) that will make it significantly worse (Like letting your refugees die).
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Scott F
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Indiana
Oct 2000
time: 00:13
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Captain Nemo:
I have a couple of suggestions for any future version of Red Front (though 1.4 is pretty much perfect, I think).
- Add camoflauge schemes to German tanks. After the winter of 1941, the Germans learned their lesson and painted their tanks in winter camoflauge schemes, just like your Russian tanks are painted. It would be nice to see camofluage like that on the kV-1 tanks on German Tigers and Panthers later in the war too.
- After the winter of 42-43, the Germans started to apply stuff called Zimmerit to the outsides of their tanks that pretty much nullified magnetic mines. Maybe in the summer of '43, the minefield terrain could have a lower movement factor to represent this. After the summer of 43, if the human player isn't ready to start to drive back the Russians, this will make things hard for him.
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Captain Nemo
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Red Front
Jan 1970
time: 05:13
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Good suggestion on the German tanks... Of course I did it to give the entire German motorized forces a real unitized look. I have made at least 10-12 more German units since Red Front so if there is a version 1.941 it will be expanded. Painting units is the most time consuming part of building a scenario (By far). For Red Front I designed the equivalent of 3 full games worth of units! By the end I was burned out...So the Germans never got winter armor. Their summer camo patterns are more difficult to do. They are not like the typical russian or Allied tank and the color palette in Civ2 is missing some blue-greens and Grey-greens I would need.
Regarding the Zimmerit coating it was of no use in minefields. It was applied to prevent the hand-carried magnetic mines from sticking to the tanks. Russian pioneer and anti-tank squads had become deadly and daring at running up to a tank and sticking a magnetic mine to the hull. In street fighting it was even worse because the tanks passed so close to houses that provided cover for the anti-tank squads.
But lowering the Minefields movecost to 2 or 3 would make it very interesting: Tanks could pass through a single depth field in one turn but not through a double wide... A bit more strategy involved here...
Currently I am working with John Petroski on Austieg... I am churning out units for the Allies and minor Nations... Some of my best work yet.
What will follow? I don't know yet but here are the suggestions:
- Harlan suggests that I improve the map for RedFront. He has even offered to make a 100% accurate map for me. I would "Just" have to replace the cities, units, improvements and edit the rules so the move unit coordinates are correct.
- He also has suggested that I make a ToT version of the game considering that ToT has much more powerful events and 18 additional unit slots.
My own ideas which I have played with for a while
-Normandy 1944, short scenario played in days not weeks or months. Large scale map 100% tactical, no development or economics
-Stalingrad 1942-1943. Super large scale with only the city and immediate surroundings
-Afrika 1940-1943... Not fully thought through yet, but I like the idea of desert warfare, the Mediterranean air and sea battles and the nice graphics that could come from this...
Well what do you think?
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18-03-2000 23:53
It's v e r y irritating seeing this message after getting into a game... it's disastrous for gameplay, as well. Instead of releasing a whole new version to fix this, Nemo, could you just describe on this forum how to edit the events file and have people fix it for themselves? This HAS to be solved if I'm ever to play the scenario again... 
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