08-09-2003 09:57									#1
	Turn 115, 270BC Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

To be edited only by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- Iron cut
- Republic
- Researching Engineering (27) 1 scientist.
- 282 gold. +32 gpt
- Slider at 9/0/1 tax/sci/lux


Urgent questions & tasks
- Final plans for PoA to plunge into the ocean West of Equilibrium. Warrior WB moving to join her. We need to decide EXACTLY where to launch from THIS turn.
- Trade with GWT
- Trade agreement written up with CFC.
- Determining turn that we attack. We can be ready to attack on T 121, 6 from now.
- Apolyton drops to size 4 this turn. Pay very close attention to WF assignments!


Unit Movement & Actions:

All units (excepting Warriors to be upgraded in Mingapulco) in Army Group A/B (AGA/B) to remain (fortified) on the road tile 8 of Cuido where they can maintain the maximum mobility to deal with a GCA threat.

AGA/B contains: 3 vet Horseman, 12 vet MIs, 5 vet NMs, 1 vet Swordsman, 1 elite Warrior, 2 vet Warriors, 2 Catapults, 1 Settler (27 units)

Settler from Apolyton to move towards AGA/B.

G01 I. PoA moves 9-6, picks up W04 WhiteBandit, moves 4 then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with WB.
G02 II. Expedition [Flash, Jagjef] moves 6-6-3 then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with the Swordsmen.

M12 XII. BigFurryInfantry moves 8; looking for the barb camp.
M13 XIII. 'Mingapulco' joins AGA/B.

S05 V. Hack moves 6-6-3; Heading back towards Mingapulco to upgrade.

N01 I. MerZenary remains fortified; will join with BFI to hunt barbs.
N04 IV. Togas moves 6 back towards Equilibrium; will be used to guard the city and the silks.
N05 V. Enamel moves 2; looking for barbs near Big Bend.
N10 X. 'Bananatopia' joins AGA/B.

W02 II. BigFree moves 2-7 and fortifies (scouting cycle).
W07 VII. WhiteBandit moves 7 onto the PoA.
W03 III. Alva moves 1 into Tripoli; protecting from barbs (no road on the iron yet).
W12 XII. WWNN moves 4.
W15 XV. 'Mingapulco moves 2; will be upgraded soon.
W16 XVI. 'Bananatopia' moves 4-4-1; will be upgraded soon.

All other units to remain as they are.


Economy:
Poly, Ming & Banana, build warriors
All others should be the same as last turn
To be edited by MoI

WF:
Apolyton - down to size 4, will grow next turn, change WF to 4-6-8-15 (we will get the extra sheild to build the warrior when it grows)
Mingapolco - change WF to 1-2-8-9-15
Bananatopia - change WF to 1-2-6-7-8-9-19 (working game for 1 turn)
Luxinvicta - change WF to 4-8-13 (the newly mined tile from the Go3 will be wasted, so this configuration still gives us the same SPT as before)
Incensity - change WF to 4-5-7-14
All others have no change.

Workers:
Referance: Map of tiles still needing Improvements
Spink - start mining
panag - start roading
rush - road done, worker frozen.
Monkee & CalcII - 2 turns left to clear (tile cleared the next turn)
Mark & Otto - 4 turns left to clear
Dan & Gits - Start and finish road.
Yo & rah - 3 turns left to clear
Yin & lib - 2 turns left to mine (mine active the next turn)
Gang of 3 - Mine tile, done
Squid - start roading Iron. under discussion
Horse - move 7, will start mining next turn.
Slave Farb - move 4-4, will start roading next turn


Diplomacy:
GCA: NAP in effect (to Turn 130).
CFC: NAP expired. New NAP proposed by CFC thru turn 117
[EDIT by E_T] We must NOT aquire a tech on turn 117 or the warrior builds will get autoupgraded to MI's[/edit] [EDIT] no longer an issue[/edit]

Comment, please, many "plans" are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.

---
Note: keypad directions used for all except WF orders.

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results

Last edited by E_T on 10-09-2003 at 07:45

	08-09-2003 21:32									#2
	Worker timing on the Iron Increase the size of your Attachments

We have 2 workers on the Iron that could start rebuilding the road next turn. Because this task takes 3 worker turns, with 2 workers, they will be done in 2 turns (with the road connected on the second turn, with 1 worker frozen and one not). This will also put the 2 workers "out of sync".

As we want to try to get the most out of having the Iron disconnected, this is what I plan:

Next turn (115): Squid starts roading (1 of 3 worker turns), Horse moves 7 to the hill at Tripoli 8 (WF #1).
Turn 116: Squid still roading (2 of 3 worker turns), Horse starts to Mine Tripoli 8 (WF #1) (1 of 6 worker turns).
Turn 117: Squid frozen - road built (3 of 3 worker turns), Horse mining (2 of 6 worker turns) - Iron is now reconnected.
Turn 118: Squid moves to rejoin with Horse and helps to mine (3 & 4 of 6 worker turns).
Turn 119: mine built, both are frozen (5 & 6 of 6 worker turns).
Turn 120: Move to new tasks (M1 or M2 or M3 or M4).

MoI E_T

Last edited by E_T on 09-09-2003 at 00:03

	09-09-2003 00:00									#3
	A preveiw of upcoming worker moves - Options available Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Referance: Map of tiles still needing Improvements

When Monkee & CalcII are finished with Y1, they will move to Y4.
When Squid and Horse are finished with B5, they will move to either M1; M2; M3 or M4.
When Mark and Otto are finished with Y3, they will move to either M5; M7; M10.
When Yo & rah are finished with M12, they will move to either M5; M7; M9; M10; M11; Y7; Y8; Y9; Y10; Y11 or Y12.
When Dan & Gits are finished with Y3, they will move to Y5.
When Yin & Lib are finished with B3, they will move to B4 and then towards the silks.
When panag, Spink and rush are finished with B7, 8 & 10, they will be joining Hispanica and BFC.
Go3 will be mining for a while.
And we have a few workers still in the builds, too.

MoI E_T

	09-09-2003 00:06									#4
	Workers for the upcoming war Got spare money?

We will likely have the need for workers to be with the advancing armies, but we also still have need to them at home, too. We need to look at having atleast 2 workers accompaning the armies (or multiples of 2, for road builds). We will look at this over the next several turns.

MoI E_T

	09-09-2003 00:24									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Couple things.

It is likely highly desirable for us to get an extra turn of warriors in. That means killing this turn of actions for Squid (start road next turn, 116).

True, we will need workers at the front. We should change Possum over to 1. Also, I am not sure we need silks as much as we need tiles cleared and other worker actions, right at the moment.

	09-09-2003 00:34									#6
	Remove this text

We will need the silks for 3 reasons:

1) to help combat the upcoming war weariness
2) to let us reduce the Lux slider, after the war is finished
3) to let Bananatopia grow to a larger, more productive size.

Also, with this setup for the Iron, we will get 11 Vet Warriors. Delaying will only get us 3 more AND then they will still have to be upgraded (at 60 gold each). IF the war goes well, we won't need them. Conversely, if it goes badly, will we have them upgraded in time?

E_T

	09-09-2003 01:17									#7
	Tired of ads?

We will have enough to upg 5 or 6 of them for the first wave. That will leave 5 or 6 of them for the core of AGC, if we run one extra turn with no iron. They will upgrade quickly once the GA hits.

With GCA caving in to peace with CFC so easily, and the fact that the bulk of their army from there is likely rushing back as we speak, something is telling me that we will be in for a big fight. We'd best prepare for it.

	09-09-2003 01:23									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

What cities are we planning to investigate before the advent of war?? that will also cost us...

E_T

	09-09-2003 01:24									#9
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

re Silks, War Weariness is likely a long way off. The end of the war is further still.

Sacrificing 2 workers for pop in one city at this stage seems... unwise to me. Everything we have to spare, practically, is working for core cities right now. We do have 2 workers starting work for the second ring, but they are not enough.

We have done nothing for clearing for the likely FP city. It is as if we care not for the new cities. All is focused on the core.

Also, once we clear tiles for cities like Possum, they can stream workers into the pot.

All this, and the fact that we will need workers at the front.

I am not saying that silks are a bad idea. I am saying it is not quite yet time to peel off 10% of our workers for that task.

	09-09-2003 01:25									#10
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by E_T What cities are we planning to investigate before the advent of war?? that will also cost us... E_T

Not sure. I see no real need for anything beyond Elucidium.

	09-09-2003 02:40									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

With regards to when to re-connect the iron....

no more MI's than those on hand until the iron is re-connected.

if the massed warriors can be looked at as a second wave once upgraded

AND

if we actually get our GA kicked off quickly supplying the funds

AND

we still can issue our DOW on turn 121

waiting one or 2 more turns for 3 or 6 more wa->mi sounds ok

all of our planning assumes that our GA will be kicked off by GCA attacking our stack

what if they don't?

if GCA sends in a stack of strength 2 defenders higher than our CAT stack, we won't be able to risk countering with NM's cause we won't have removed enough hp's.

are we prepared for a deferred GA?

	09-09-2003 03:37									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Personally, I'm of the Opinion that GCA will do everything in there power to Prevent our GA, or to delay it as much as possible. On the other hand, I'm making my plans as if the GA will occure on the second turn of the war (i.e. when GCA makes their first counter attack).

As for war weariness and the silks, IF this is a short war, then not having the silks is o.k., to a point. IF the war streaches out to about 2/3rd of they way through the GA, it could have significant impact on us. If the war becomes a drawn out affair, then the silks would be a godsend.

Remember, that the lux slider is not fully across the board, bacause of corruption in the various cities, and several of those cities that will be at real risk are running anywhere from 12% to 32% of corruption. So that extra trade that is GA generated and likely anticipated for lux slider has to go through the corruption FIRST before it's applied. And then it gets split to the entertainment.

To equil the added effect of 1 additional luxury, each city will have to produce (after corruption), 10 additional RAW trade. For the closest core cities, in the GA, that is no problem. When you get to the 22% to 32% range, then that's a significant amount of additional RAW trade to get just that one extra coin. And these are in cities that we are counting on with the war effort, or we wouldn't be building barracks in them now (in a couple of them).

Having an ace in the hole does not hurt. We want one in respect to MI's, don't we also want one in respect to our porduction capabilities?

MoI E_T

	09-09-2003 03:53									#13
	Suffering from ads?

And as for Possum, it's running at about 46%, so for not too much more effort, it can (during the GA) produce 5 SPT (after waste) with working just 2 hills and have no further growth (2 pop). If need be, thats a cat every 4 turns. When not in the GA, with the same 2 mined hills, it's producing 4 SPT after waste. IMHO, it doens't need the worker to clear out area for it at this point in time. It's a lower priority compaired to other cities.

E_T

	09-09-2003 04:15									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I like the plan to get 3 more Warriors, but I also like the plan to get the Silks hooked up. The faster we get it hooked up the more money we save in the long run from the slider, which, as of this turn, is 13 gpt and even more in a GA. It's well worth it IMO.

Our GA can be set off on our first turn if one of our MI's fails against the Spear/Sword combo on the hill that was heavily damaged; or against the GCA Horsemen, hoping that the horseman doesn't retreat. Though we could direct a retreat if we wanted and then attack the second time with a NM as well. Trip, please look into doing this on our first turn of war. I do want viable options for setting off our GA on the DoW turn.

	09-09-2003 06:58									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well, if others do not agree, then...

Just keep in mind that population is the basis of power in this game. We currently have 3 cities forced to work hills at 2 pop because they lack grass. Another, HoD is about to grow out of grass with it's next growth. Furthermore, we have done not one jot towards the FP city.

We can send 2 workers to the silks. We can send 2 workers with the army. We can join 3 workers to the NW cities to bring them up to speed for the GA. That will be 7 out of 18 native workers.

Do we have enough workers? Not a chance. We will need them more than we need additional cats, most likely. Some cats? Good. Many workers? Better. Some cats and many workers? Best.

	09-09-2003 07:36									#16
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

OK, so allowing time to think on whether to further clear or to get the Silks...

The extra warriors of course sounds good, but what will the workers Squid and Horse do for that turn? Just skip? It's only a couple of worker turns wasted but is there something else that can be done with them?

As for the GA, I am unsure how GCA can avoid it for long. They either attack our stacks with NMs in them and lose sometime, we bombard the heck out of their stacks until we can take one down with an NM or an MI of ours loses on the offense and has still damaged one of theirs enough to take out with an NM. This is the first time I have ever been happy we chose Carthage.

	09-09-2003 07:39									#17
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Horse moves to the unroaded hill and roads it. Only one of the workers skips, only one turn lost, but 3 warriors/mi's gained.

	09-09-2003 16:34									#18
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Actually, two worker turns are lost overall. One this turn, then another one later since horse and squid become misaligned.

	09-09-2003 20:22									#19
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by roadcage Actually, two worker turns are lost overall. One this turn, then another one later since horse and squid become misaligned.

Roadcage, that's the beauty of the difference with worker tasking cense the 1.21 patch had come out, the worker efficientcy has gone up.

Before the patch, If I had used 2 workers to build a road on a hill (3 worker turns), I would have lost 1 worker turn, at the end of the second turn. But with the patch, on that second turn of work, that road is built and one of the workers is frozen and the other is able to get on to other things. Yes, they are out of sync, but a 2 turn road on a hill has had it's efficiency increased.

The only nightmare is in the issueing of orders and keeping track of who and what, when you get a group out of sync. As long as they are planned and the person that is implementing the orders realizes that, too, then it's just an annoyance that can cause problems in this kind of game (i.e. DG).

E_T

	09-09-2003 20:26									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Horse moves to the unroaded hill and roads it. Only one of the workers skips, only one turn lost, but 3 warriors/mi's gained.

That other hill, that one that Horse was originally heading to, is needed by Bananatopia... The workers can be out of sync, it's just annoying is all, we can get them back in sync sometime.

NYE, the 3 workers that were listed as beeing slated to be added to the cities, is listed there, because YOU TOLD ME IN CHAT that that was the plan, and that was what you were wanting. If you go and change these plans (ands they have seemed to have changed over the last 2 turns) then you NEED to post about it.

Your complaining that too many things are being discussed and desided on in chat AND if this is an example of that, then YOU also need to post things about what was said. I can't make the proper plans that you (and our fellow players/countrymen) want and need to see, if things are changing and I'm not being informed. I am NOT a mind reader....


And as for having workers to do all of the stuff for the other cities, I am fully aware of WHAT STILL needs to be done, AND I am also fully aware of what is happening in those cities. Yes, we have 6 cities that are in the (some very deeply) Jungle. We are also working on that. IF we decide to send 2 workers with the armies, then we need to think and discuss this NOW, so that I can plan for later.

It's a balancing act, NYE, to help keep the cities growth up and have tiles for them to use, without them having to use a jungle tile.

	09-09-2003 21:05									#21
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt OK, so allowing time to think on whether to further clear or to get the Silks... The extra warriors of course sounds good, but what will the workers Squid and Horse do for that turn? Just skip? It's only a couple of worker turns wasted but is there something else that can be done with them?

Horse can continue with what was originally planned, to start the mining. If we delay 1 turn, then that mine will be built just 1 turn later (and the 2 workers will be out of sync, no big deal).

We CAN have squid delay for 2 turns, join up with Horse and have that mine finished on the same turn that It would have, if he had delayed just the one turn. And they would be in sync for the next tasking.

MoI E_T

	09-09-2003 21:12									#22
	Increase the size of your Attachments

As for setting up for the FP, well that is currently out the window at this point in time. With having to place the Fort City (can't remember the name at this time), we will have to remove both it and Alcohol and have a settler for the new city, preferably ready to go, but that could come from Alcohol.

As the current plans, as I understand them, are having us wait until we see what happens with the first part of the war, before we reexamine the city for the FP, then we will wait a bit more.

E_T

	10-09-2003 05:24									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

All units (excepting Warriors to be upgraded in Mingapulco) in Army Group A/B (AGA/B) to remain (fortified) on the road tile 8 of Cuido where they can maintain the maximum mobility to deal with a GCA threat.

AGA/B contains: 3 vet Horseman, 12 vet MIs, 5 vet NMs, 1 vet Swordsman, 1 elite Warrior, 2 vet Warriors, 2 Catapults, 1 Settler (27 units)

Settler from Apolyton to move towards AGA/B.

G01 I. PoA moves 9-6, picks up W04 WhiteBandit, moves 4 then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with WB.
G02 II. Expedition [Flash, Jagjef] moves 6-6-3 then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with the Swordsmen.

M12 XII. BigFurryInfantry moves 8; looking for the barb camp.
M13 XIII. 'Mingapulco' joins AGA/B.

S05 V. Hack moves 6-6-3; Heading back towards Mingapulco to upgrade.

N01 I. MerZenary remains fortified; will join with BFI to hunt barbs.
N04 IV. Togas moves 6 back towards Equilibrium; will be used to guard the city and the silks.
N05 V. Enamel moves 2; looking for barbs near Big Bend.
N10 X. 'Bananatopia' joins AGA/B.

W02 II. BigFree moves 2-7 and fortifies (scouting cycle).
W07 VII. WhiteBandit moves 7 onto the PoA.
W03 III. Alva moves 1 into Tripoli; protecting from barbs (no road on the iron yet).
W12 XII. WWNN moves 4.
W15 XV. 'Mingapulco moves 2; will be upgraded soon.
W16 XVI. 'Bananatopia' moves 4-4-1; will be upgraded soon.

All other units to remain as they are.

	10-09-2003 05:31									#24
	Support Apolyton

As I pointed out in the first post via editting, Apolyton drops to size 4 this turn so we need to pay close attention to the WF in all cities.

I will post the image I created earlier for easy reference:



This setup should work well with a couple changes, namely with Apolyton NOT working the game and maybe a couple other things involving Lux or Ming (in addition to the fact that Apolyton will only be at size 4 instead of size 5 and needs to grow onto a new tile to maintain 10 SPT).

We need to make sure Apolyton grows onto the proper tile. This probably means leaving Apolyton WF7 open to grow onto and working the hill... otherwise we may not get the hill (and 10 SPT) and instead get a 1 SPT mined grass tile.

	10-09-2003 10:16									#25
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Diplomacy:
Offer to ND of Feudalism and 2gpt for Eng is still on the table, accepted by us. Esc to get out of screen


Unit Movement and Actions:
Settler from Apolyton moves 2 1 1

N01 'MerZenary' attacks Thracian horse at 8. Wins, no damage
N05 'Enamel' moves 2. Numidian warrior spotted at 1

wrkrs build road at BB6

N07 'Ghengis' moves 6 2. Numidian camp at 2 3 with 1 warrior and 1 horse
N11 y moves 1 2 1
N04 'Togas' moves 8

M12 'BigFurryInfantry' moves 7
M13 x moves 2 1. Sentry

S05 'Hack' moves 6 6 3

W02 'BigFree' moves 3 7. Fortify. GCA elite warrior unchanged
W03 'Alva' moves 1
W12 'Warrior With No Name' moves 4
W15 a from Mingapulco moves 6. Sentry
W16 b from Banantopia moves 7 4. Sentry

G02 'AS Expedition' moves 9 1. Fortify all. Prepares to receive attack from Zhou galley
S02 'Flash' unloads 6
S01 'jagjef' unloads 6
G01 'AS Princess of Apolyton' moves 8 6 6
W07 'WhiteBandit' loads on PoA. Fortify all


Economy:
Apolyton finished settler. building warrior (2). should go to (1)
Mingapulco finished warrior. building warrior (1)
Banantopia finished warrior. building warrior (1)
Incensity building merc (1)
Tripoli building court house (3)
Equilibrium building walls (11)
Cuido de Alcohol building cat (13)
Hispanica building barracks (8)
Possumopolis building cat (6)
Karina building cat (4)
LuxInvicta building granery (8)
Big Bend building worker (7)
BigFurryCity building baracks (9)
Heart of Darkness building cat (3)

WF:
Apolyton change to 4-6-8-15
Mingapulco change to 1-2-8-9-15
Banantopia change to 1-2-6-7-8-9-19
Incensity change to 4-5-7-14
Tripoli NC
Equilibrium scientist
Cuido de Alcohol NC
Hispanica NC
Possumopolis NC
Karina NC
LuxInvicta change to 4-8-13
Big Bend NC
BigFurryCity NC
Heart of Darkness NC


Workers:
Worker01: 'Dan' roading (1) Big bend 6
Worker02: 'Monkee' clearing (2) Nana 2 1
Worker03: 'panag' roading (3) Hispanica 8 7
Worker04: 'EVC' mining (1) Lux 3
Worker05: 'Dejon' mining (1) Lux 3
Worker06: 'MrWIA' mining (1) Lux 3
Worker07: 'Rush' roading (1) BFC 7
Worker08: 'Yo' clearing (3) Karina 3
Worker09: 'Calc II' clearing (2) Nana 2 1
Worker10: 'Spink' mining (6) BFC 8 7
Worker11: 'Horse' skips turn Tripoli 9
Worker12: 'Squid' moves 2
Worker13: 'Otto' clearing (4) Lux 6
Worker14: 'Mark' clearing (4) Lux 6
Worker15: 'Gits' roading (1) Big bend 6
Worker16s: 'Farb' moves 4 4
Worker17: 'Yin' mining (2) Possum 3
Worker18: 'Lib' mining (2) Possum 3
Worker19: 'rah' clearing (3) Karina 3


Slider: 9/0/1 tax/sci/lux. +27gpt. 282 gold.
1 scientist. Engineering in 27

	10-09-2003 10:21									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I moved squid so that the hill can be prepared for Tripoli to be at size 5 and working 2 hills in the GA.

I moved Togas north to find and destroy the barb camp that must be up there before he heads south. There must be a camp up there, because the turn we spotted 3 or 4 barbs, they were from 3 different 'tribes'.

I skipped with horse so that we can get 11 warriors before the iron is hooked up.