08-09-2003 18:09									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Elden I prefered Agathon's summary

Yep, it was much shorter and said the same thing as the long Version

	08-09-2003 18:22									#32
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How many times do I have to do this? Ah well...

@ Agathon.

	08-09-2003 18:52									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Elden I prefered Agathon's summary

Except Agathon's pathetic attempt at parody falls flat. Ie, it totally sucks!

Bush speech last night was superb.

This isn't some petty partisan issue like healthcare or education. We are talking about our very survival as a free nation. We have to take the war on terror seriously. Contrary to the 9 dwarves running for the dem nomination, President Bush takes the security of the US seriously!

	08-09-2003 18:54									#34
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I didn't watch Bush's speech -- just propaganda, nothing meaningful, really.

	08-09-2003 18:58									#35
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat We are talking about our very survival as a free nation.

	08-09-2003 19:01									#36
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Except Agathon's pathetic attempt at parody falls flat. Ie, it totally sucks!

It was funny and showed what Bush meant very well. I.E. doesn't suck.

quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Bush speech last night was superb.

Bush has done nothing superb. The most amazing thing about him is that some people are stupid enougth to believe him.

quote: Originally posted by The diplomat This isn't some petty partisan issue like healthcare or education. We are talking about our very survival as a free nation. We have to take the war on terror seriously. Contrary to the 9 dwarves running for the dem nomination, President Bush takes the security of the US seriously!

He wouldn't need to beg Europe for money he doesn't deserve if he didn't give out tax cuts to multi-millionaires for no reason.

	08-09-2003 19:02									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Elden He wouldn't need to beg Europe for money he doesn't deserve if he didn't give out tax cuts to multi-millionaires for no reason.

He didn't mention anything about how our country owes the United Nations money either, did he?

	08-09-2003 19:04									#38
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun He didn't mention anything about how our country owes the United Nations money either, did he?

No, or the fact that ever since he claimed the war in Iraq was over nine US soldiers have died in Iraq per week.

	08-09-2003 19:06									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse

Laugh all you want, but your reaction is exactly why Dems will lose 2004. Even with 9-11 and 3,000 dead Americans, you still don't realize how dangerous terrorism is.

	08-09-2003 19:07									#40
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quote: Isn't that the whole reason most of us were against the war anyway? No plan for what was going to happen after Saddam was toppled.

No, it wasn't. Or at least I hope it wasn't, since that's a piss poor reason not to go to war. It is unprincipled.

	08-09-2003 19:08									#41
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Here's the same question I ask for every Bush's speech: What was the use ?

This speech won't convince any diplomatic team to invest troops in Iraq. Diplomatic efforts and concessions will do (I'm still waiting for my part of the loot ). This speech won't do anything on foreign public opinions, because nobody gives a ****.

Like for the other speeches, I suppose the only usefulness of this one os for American "patriots" to feel good, and to feel they're doing the right thing.

	08-09-2003 19:08									#42
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You're quite right, Mr Diplomat. Only seventy-six and a half thousand more WTC-like events, and there'll be no America left. Stop the bastards now!

	08-09-2003 19:09									#43
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat We are talking about our very survival as a free nation.

Iraq never threatened my survival. Ashcroft is a bigger threat to our status as a free nation than Hussein ever was.

	08-09-2003 19:09									#44
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Laugh all you want, but your reaction is exactly why Dems will lose 2004.

Actually they will probably get the most votes again.

	08-09-2003 19:09									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Elden No, or the fact that ever since he claimed the war in Iraq was over nine US soldiers have died in Iraq per week.

Where did you get this statistic?


Onion?

	08-09-2003 19:09									#46
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The Diplomat:
How do 3000 dead threaten your very survival as a 300.000.000 inhab country ?

	08-09-2003 19:10									#47
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quote: Originally posted by DanS No, it wasn't. Or at least I hope it wasn't, since that's a piss poor reason not to go to war. It is unprincipled.

No it isn't. First off, it was a campaign promise of Shrub's, not to send troops in anywhere they didn't have an exit plan. Second, the complete lack of a plan has really mucked things up for the Iraqi people.

	08-09-2003 19:10									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Elden The most amazing thing about him is that some people are stupid enougth to believe him.

The most amazing thing to me is that some people are still clueless about the seriousness of the war on terror and prefer petty partisan attacks against Bush while brave American soldiers are fighting for our freedom.

quote: He wouldn't need to beg Europe for money he doesn't deserve if he didn't give out tax cuts to multi-millionaires for no reason.

You do realize that it was an across the board tax cut which means that low income and middle class Americans got tax cuts too, not just the "multi-millionaires".

	08-09-2003 19:10									#49
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Laugh all you want, but your reaction is exactly why Dems will lose 2004. Even with 9-11 and 3,000 dead Americans, you still don't realize how dangerous terrorism is.

but what has the war on Iraq to do with this?

	08-09-2003 19:11									#50
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quote: Originally posted by DanS No, it wasn't. Or at least I hope it wasn't, since that's a piss poor reason not to go to war. It is unprincipled.

I'd have supported a war which was supported by the UN undertaken by a genuine international coallition of forces willing to work towards rebuilding Iraq.

	08-09-2003 19:12									#51
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Where did you get this statistic? Onion?

I forget where but it wasn't the Onion. If it were from the onion it would be more like 90 troops a week.

	08-09-2003 19:12									#52
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I agree with MikeH

	08-09-2003 19:13									#53
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Where did you get this statistic? Onion?

I don't know if nine a week is the actual number, but I heard on NPR this morning that the death toll was slightly more than one soldier a day has been killed in Iraq since the "end of major combat operations." Most of them have not been killed in combat, however, but I don't know how they are recording deaths to mines and bombs and such.

	08-09-2003 19:14									#54
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Even with 9-11 and 3,000 dead Americans, you still don't realize how dangerous terrorism is.

Really? Ever been personally at risk from a credible terrorist threat? I have.

	08-09-2003 19:14									#55
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat The most amazing thing to me is that some people are still clueless about the seriousness of the war on terror and prefer petty partisan attacks against Bush while brave American soldiers are fighting for our freedom.

What about the petty partisan attacks by Republicans against Clinton while our soldiers were in Bosnia and Kosovo. Or can you just dish it out but can't take it back?

	08-09-2003 19:14									#56
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I don't know if nine a week is the actual number, but I heard on NPR this morning that the death toll was slightly more than one soldier a day has been killed in Iraq since the "end of major combat operations." Most of them have not been killed in combat, however, but I don't know how they are recording deaths to mines and bombs and such.

I guess I thought the post-war casualties were a lot lower than they are . . . .

	08-09-2003 19:17									#57
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat The most amazing thing to me is that some people are still clueless about the seriousness of the war on terror and prefer petty partisan attacks against Bush while brave American soldiers are fighting for our freedom.

I don't think it is "petty partisan" to attack Bush for:
- the utter lack of post-war plan
- the failed diplomacy that turned most countries, and the whole world public opinion against you, one mere year after the historical sympathy siplays in the wake of Sept 11
- the huge costs of the war, and the resulting weakened economy (although most economic problems should be blamed on the Civil Society and not on Bush)

You're lucky to be in Democracy, unlike WW2 USSR. Your leader is objectively incompetent, so change him, and get a competent leader at last. With a leader who actually knows what he is doing, the war on terror will only get better.

	08-09-2003 19:17									#58
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat The most amazing thing to me is that some people are still clueless about the seriousness of the war on terror and prefer petty partisan attacks against Bush while brave American soldiers are fighting for our freedom.

Ohh that would be your (not our I'm not American) freedom to steal oil from countries who did not threaten your freedom in any way, shape or form.

quote: Originally posted by The diplomat You do realize that it was an across the board tax cut which means that low income and middle class Americans got tax cuts too, not just the "multi-millionaires".

Across the board to Bush meaning Millionaires - Billionaires.

	08-09-2003 19:18									#59
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I guess I thought the post-war casualties were a lot lower than they are . . . .

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/3019552.stm

	08-09-2003 19:20									#60
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Wow -- interesting link, MikeH.