08-09-2003 15:00									#1
	ACDG Government structure. Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

What government positions will we have, what power do they have and how do we elect them?

I'm all in favor of how we did it last time, except we leave some position out at the start, like DoSE (Social Engineering). So we only keep the positions that actually have some work to do.

Maybe instead of governors we can have mayor's, one for each base instead of one for a region. The mayor suggests what facilities to build, where to place crawlers etc, and the minister has the final word on it.

	08-09-2003 16:49									#2
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If we get enough people, mayors would be good. However not sure we'll have the participation, especially if we want contested elections.

	08-09-2003 20:56									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Lemmy I'm all in favor of how we did it last time, except we leave some position out at the start, like DoSE (Social Engineering). So we only keep the positions that actually have some work to do.

In the Consciousness the SE duties are fulfilled by the Second Function, as that fits nicely with his other macro-political duties like starting nominations and elections.
In a Hive game, the Alpha Talent and SE duties could be fulfilled by the Secretary-General.

	09-09-2003 01:40									#4
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How is the AXDG government organized btw? I think I saw a picture of its structure once, but I can't remember exactly.

	09-09-2003 01:53									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue If we get enough people, mayors would be good. However not sure we'll have the participation, especially if we want contested elections.

Forget it, we'll never have enough people for positions like that. The best idea is something akin to the government structure of the original ACDG, except cut down on the number of positions.

	09-09-2003 09:30									#6
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We had the following positions:

Commisioner - plays the game. As we were the UN, Comissioner worked. I guess we would tailor this name (along with the others) to whatever faction we chooose.

Alpha Talent - the Commish's deputy. Plays the game in place of the Commish for whatever reason. ALso is responsible for taking over any absent Director's position, posting nominations and elections threads.

Director of Science - in charge of polling for science research paths

Director of Peacekeeping Operations - the military Director. In charge of directing military units and probe teams, responsible for defending our bases.

Director of Foreign Affairs - responsible for all dealings with other factions apart from military maneouvres.

Director of Social Engineering
Sporadically responsible for polling on changing our SE choices. Not a full-time position, really, and we shouldn't elect one until we actually HAVE choices.

Director of Exploration and Intelligence
Umm.... maybe another defunct role, but we could perhaps have this in the early game. Make them responsible for polling on directions of exxploration and controllling scouts given over to exploration. Would probably be subsumed within the DPO later on.

Director of Internal Affairs
Not sure of this one.... perhaps coordinates build s in different cities that are individually controlled by Governors?

Governors
Responsible for directing formers, build queues, and worked tiles for their individual base/region. Can request energy rushes for things and must poll on whether to build an SP in their base when they want to. Have to coordinate with other Directors such as the DIA, DEI and DPO.

	09-09-2003 12:46									#7
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Aah, the DEI
It's certainly a full time job at the start, if you want to poll the exploration paths.....and being in control of the probe teams is fun! I wanna be like the CIA KGB director!

	09-09-2003 13:08									#8
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MWIA's suggestions look good, but I'd suggest combining the DPO and DEI positions right from the start, to avoid bickering over unit control and avoid situations where the DPO has nothing to do at the start while the DEI has loads, and then the reversal of this as time goes on...

	09-09-2003 15:07									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Lemmy Aah, the DEI It's certainly a full time job at the start, if you want to poll the exploration paths.....and being in control of the probe teams is fun! I wanna be like the CIA KGB director!

Your not the only one I enjoyed my stint replacing you as DEI

	09-09-2003 17:44									#10
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Hey I was DEI for a short time. And DIE for a day when Lemmy didn't show up immediately after he won an election... Of course he showed up within 24 hours, so I had the shortest DIE directorship of all.

	09-09-2003 17:50									#11
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I was DEI for 3 turns (well, 2 and a half really ) and had one 2 turns as DPO when DEI was also incorporated in it.

However I think DEI and DPO should be consolidated, but I think DEI should be the name, since in a truly totalitarian way, we want our citizens to think we're being peaceful, as Director of Exploration and Intelligence seems peaceful, whereas Director of Hive Operations doesn't so much.

	09-09-2003 17:54									#12
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Isn't "Peacekeeping Operations" peaceful enough?
Anyway, you can always call the office "Factional Defence". That's also peaceful.

	09-09-2003 17:59									#13
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I think Peacekeeping operations seems too UN Peacekeepers like, and all Hive citizens hate the UN (Democracy... pah ) whereas Factional Defence stressed the defence, which is a military operation. I think deny that there is a military, as all units are simply for "exploration and intelligence". "Hive military? The Hive has no military" - think Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf stylee

Last edited by Drogue on 09-09-2003 at 18:05

	09-09-2003 22:18									#14
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I think Factional Defense is appropriate. The Hive is fairly paranoid, building bases underground and all, and defense seems to me like one of their top priorities.

That's not to say you couldn't play a faux-pacifist Hive... but what style you play really depends on who wins out in the initial post-landing power struggle. Thus, I wouldn't pick a set government structure pre-game -- let the Chairman set up the government as he sees fit. Totalitarian states are (all but nominally) not constitutional ones.

	09-09-2003 22:54									#15
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DIA was the combination of the Director of Terraforming and Director of Base production, later on around the time we got big enough for governors, and had them taking care of their own terrraforming. the DID then would approve builds and request units for the DPO/DEI.


At least that's how I remember it!

	10-09-2003 01:22									#16
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the system of governors worked fairly well, i say let's not bother with the DIE/DBP/DTC again. Besides, as i recall, the DIE just moved workers and all that...not much for an entire directorate.

	10-09-2003 01:30									#17
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Ok, time to come up with some names then?

Chairman for the big leader
Secretary for the Alpha Talent? or we could just stick to Alpha Talent

What about the ministers?
I liked drogue's suggestion to make the Hive seem peacefull, and call the DPO something not so militaristic.

	10-09-2003 13:15									#18
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Secretary for State security, perhaps?

And 'General Secretary' might be a good name for the Alpha Talent.

	15-09-2003 21:10									#19
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I dug up the old ACDG Consitution, over here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...20&pagenumber=1

Ok, a summary on positions we (could) have:
(the titles Chariman and Secretary are chosen assuming that we'll play as the Hive)

Executives
Chairman
* Plays the game
* Cut ribbons at mall openings

General Secretary
* Organize elections
* Take over other Secretary's jobs if they are unable

Secretary...

of State Security (SoSS)
* Controls all military units, including design,upgrading and disbanding
* Controls all covert op units
* Must coordinate with SoFA (hehe, nice acronym ) for actions outside our borders.

of Science and Culture (SoSC, S&C)
* In charge of faction research
* Controls the settings on the SE screen

of Foreign Affairs (SoFA, Kassi )
* Controls all foreign actions, such as trades etc.
* Sets the foreign policy that the Chairman should follow in case of an emergency

of Internal Affairs (SoIA)
* Controls base production
* Controls civilian units, including design, upgrading and disbanding.
* May assign area's to governors

Governors
* Controls base production in their assigned area
* Controls formers in their assigned area

Last edited by Lemmy on 15-09-2003 at 21:23

	16-09-2003 01:07									#20
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change the names from the old con, and poll it. i'm happy with this.

	16-09-2003 01:48									#21
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Is the title "General Secretary" really used in English? In Dutch it's "secretaris-generaal", which would be secretary-general in English.

	16-09-2003 03:30									#22
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"Secretary-General" is only used, to my knowledge, for the leader of the United Nations. On the other hand, Stalin, Kruschchev, et al are referred to as "general secretaries" of the Communist Party. I'm not sure if China has a comparable position, but that's pretty much thought of as standard for a communist leader.

I actually favor using the name "Alpha Talent," myself -- it makes the position seem less 20th-century Communist and more 22nd-century neototalitarian.

	16-09-2003 13:39									#23
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We can't use that title, it's been corrupted by association with the PKs and their detestable democratic ideals.

* GeneralTacticus vomits.

	16-09-2003 20:33									#24
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Well if we really want to be anal about this, the title of General Secretary was used for the head of the Communist Party, it was not a government post. I suggest that we pick something else for the name of the former Alpha Talent position; the General Secretary can be more of an RP post that has a lot of say in what it done, but is not actually part of the government. The government would basically execute the will of the Party.

	16-09-2003 20:35									#25
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To add to that we can always go the Chinese route, where we have a Chairman of the National People’s Congress as the head of the government. And the Chairman of the Central Military Commission as the Alpha Talent.

	16-09-2003 23:37									#26
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Here's a random idea...

First of all, all members of the game would be members of 'The Party (The People's New Revolutionary Party or something to that affect - like out of 1984)'. As members of The Party, they are members of the People's Congress, the body that elects officials and votes in the various polls involving game actions.

To keep player internal parties on the game map, we would allow members of the Party of create and join their own 'commissions,' so long as they don't contradict the state. The Chairman would have power to dissolved commissions, mainly to keep things interesting.

The following positons are elected, though the candidates for Chairman must undergo a 'background check,' ensuring that the Chairman is chairman for the entire game.

Positions:
Chairman of The Party
The Head Honcho, Big Cheese, etc. Final authority on all actions of the government. May remove other officials from office, appoint new ones, resolve disputes over the law, etc. Other than that, power mostly symbolic for RP purposes. Unless he decides to step down, would be Chairman for the length of the game. Because of this power, would be disallowed from holding any of the other game positions. Would also post elections.

(note: all positions below are elected on a termly basis.)

President of the People's Congress
Mostly an organizational post. Keeps tract of the polls that pop up as the game progesses, and may fill in for absent officials.

Prime Minister
Plays the game, etc.

People's Minister of Internal Affairs
Base placement and general management. Does crawler and former instructions. Creates prefectural borders. Prefect of the 'capital' prefecture.

People's Minister of External Affairs
Deals with other factions, etc.

People's Minister of Scientific Research
Plans our research, etc.

People's Minister of General Defense
Combat orders for all combat troops. Can't move formers, crawlers, colony pods, or artifacts.

People's Prefect of 'XX Prefecture'
Like the governor of an area. The People's Minister of the Internal Affirs would set prefectural boundries. Sets build queues, and may request for development by former from the Internal Affairs Ministry.

All of the above officials would be allowed to appoint other members of The Party to help carry out their roles. For example, the Minister of Scientific Research could appoint a Deputy Minister to fill in for him. Such appointments would expire when:
1. He is removed by the chairman or the appointing official
2. When the appointing official leaves his position

	17-09-2003 01:13									#27
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I think Chapter 7 and 8 of this site I found could be useful to create a fitting government structure.

	17-09-2003 02:51									#28
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quote: Lenin envisaged democratic centralism as the method of internal party decision making best able to combine discipline with the decentralization necessary to allow lower party organs to adapt to local conditions. Democratic centralism calls for free discussion of alternatives, a vote on the matter at hand, and iron submission of the minority to the majority once a decision is taken.

Is this kind of approach -- with the modification of the Chairman having an absolute veto -- something we can agree on, or is this too "democratic" for the Hive?

As for the specific government structure... I like the idea of a "Supreme Leader," "Chairman," or what have you able to veto appointments, adjudicate laws, et cetera. It simulates a totalitarian dictatorship well. I also agree that, since this is a collaborative game, this person should not hold any other office, and should not actually play the turn. And, hopefully there will be at least some resignations, because I'd like to see a Hive that significantly changes as time goes on, and a change in the supreme leader might be the only way to do that, if he has ideologically committed himself.

Since the choice of Chairman will drastically influence what sort of theme the game is likely to have, I'd like to propose that the selection take place along the lines of the quote. Pluralism and factions espousing varying styles of play are permitted up until the election of the Chairman, but after that pluralism exists only so far as the Chairman tolerates it. Thus, if the Chairman chose, Tass's, Maniac's, and my proposed religious movement would either be renounced ("I am truly sorry for being deluded all this time. The Chairman's words have convinced me -- religion is a false lie incompatible with the truth of Marxism / science / Free Nihilism, and I was terribly in error to support it.") or utterly disavowed. ("What? I have never supported any such movement. Religion is the tool of rebels. How dare you associate my name with such a thing... I almost think you are a rebel yourself.") But the fun is in the maneuvering up and after that point -- through PMs, emails, and other covert means.

What do you all think?

	17-09-2003 03:06									#29
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I like it, now we just need to chose a Chairman. Any volunteers?

	17-09-2003 03:50									#30
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I'm still in the midst of reading the site of which I provided a link above, but let me already give me these quotes:

quote: Political Party: Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU), only party permitted by Constitution, controlled government apparatus and decisions affecting economy and society. CPSU followed ideology of Marxism-Leninism and operated on principle of democratic centralism. Primary CPSU bodies: Politburo, highest decision-making organ; Secretariat, controller of party bureaucracy; and Central Committee, party's policy forum. CPSU membership more than 19 million (9.7 percent of adult population in 1987), dominated by male Russian professionals. Party members occupied positions of authority in all officially recognized institutions throughout country. Government: As authorized by 1977 Constitution, fourth since 1918, government executed decisions of CPSU pertaining primarily to economy but also to security affairs and social issues. Congress of People's Deputies created in 1988 by amendment to Constitution; highest organ of legislative and executive authority; consisted of 2,250 deputies, about 87 percent of whom CPSU members or candidate members and some of whom selected in first multicandidate (although not multiparty) elections since early Soviet period; slated to meet once a year for a few days; met for first time in May 1989; deputies openly discussed issues, elected a chairman, and selected about 542 deputies from among its membership to constitute a reorganized, bicameral Supreme Soviet, a standing legislature slated to remain in session six to eight months annually. Prior to 1989, former Supreme Soviet was constitutionally highest organ of legislative and executive authority but met only a few days annually; its Presidium managed affairs throughout year. Council of Ministers administered party decisions, mainly regarding economic management, by delegating authority to its Presidium; chairman of Council of Ministers also sat on CPSU Politburo.

quote: general secretary The title of the head of the CPSU (q.v.) Secretariat, who presides over the Politburo (q.v.) and has been the Soviet Union's de facto supreme leader. Stalin became general secretary of the Russian Communist Party (Bolskevik) in 1922 and employed the positions to amass personal powers. After Statin's death in 1953, the title was changed to first secretary (q.v.), which was used by Khrushalea and by Brezhnev until 1966, when the title of general secretary was reinstituted. Brezhnev's successors--Iurii Androkov, Konstantin Chernenko, and Mikhail S. Gorbachev--were all general secretaries.

quote: The Council of Ministers and its agencies carried out the following tasks of government: internal and external security of the state; economic development, management, and administration; and ideological instruction and education. The council enacted the decisions of the party and therefore administered, through its bureaucratic regulatory and management arms, every aspect of Soviet life. As its primary task, however, the council managed the economy.

quote: The Constitution placed the chairman of the Council of Ministers at the head of government. As such, the chairman acted as the prime minister and therefore was responsible for enacting party decisions and ensuring that their implementation conformed to the intentions of the party leadership.

Based on that I think it would be more apt to call the position that has been called "Chairman" up until now "General Secretary" instead. And I would call the turn player the Chairman (of the Council of Ministers), as he is the head of the executive branch.

I hope to offer a more elaborated proposal once I have read more about the USSR government structure. That will probably take another day though...