 |
| |
|
| |
|
|
Grandpa Troll
|
 |
I owe..I owe..it's off to work I go
Jul 2000
time: 00:30
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
No, it's not fact, it's your opinion. You're entitled to it, as I am mine. I'm sure if we set up a scientific experiment to measure the effect of prayer on cosmic occurances, it would show no difference in outcome between those who did and didn't pray.
If you conceed that god isn't omniscient, I'll accept such a god can change his mind. However, you have to also conceed such a god is imperfect, since a change of mind denotes a previously-considered course of action that was less-desirable on god's part. |
Heres what I accept;
God is perfect, Humans are not
God makes his decisions based on what he determines, not Grandpa Troll or Boris Godunov
God changes directions, directives or decisons, not based on my understanding your understanding or anyones permission.
I am not arguing but merely stating fact, if you dont believe it is between you and God and His Son Jesus.
I know anything I say or type rather will do nothing to convince you, I am witnessing to you, God will add the increase, if you dont accept him, well thats your choice. There will only be 18" between Heaven and Hell, the difference between Heart Knowledge of Jesus Christ and Head Knowledge of mans reasoning.
I just wanted to share that with you
Peace
Grandpa Troll
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Boris Godunov
|
 |
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:30
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Troll
God makes his decisions based on what he determines, not Grandpa Troll or Boris Godunov |
Then why would a prayer make a whit of difference to god? If we're incapable of effecting god's actions through praying, isn't that contradicting the notion that he changes his mind because people pray?
quote:
God changes directions, directives or decisons, not based on my understanding your understanding or anyones permission. |
Again, this would mean god is not omniscient and not perfect. A perfect being would have no need to change his mind, since he would have been going the perfect course all along. An omniscient being can't change his mind, because he's known all along what he would do.
You can continue to engage in solipsisms like "oh, we can never know the mysterious will of god," but it's unconvincing. Just because you believe something to be true does not make it true nor rational. If you can rationalize any ludicrous belief to the very limits of absurdity by just saying "gods ways are mysterious," such beliefs lose all meaning and just become a string of uncritical, irrational messes.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Berzerker
|
 |
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:30
|
|
Boris - quote:
Gee, I'd say what reminded Molly of Lecter was the image of devout fundamentalists relying on prayer in times of disaster and setting themselves up to be wiped out by disaster. |
Gee, what did Lector do when reading these accounts? Derive amusement? So, who is deriving amusement? A movie character that doesn't even exist? Does Molly just think of Lector whenever a tragedy occurs to religious folk or was it that someone in this thread "appears" to be laughing at this tragedy just as Lector would be laughing?
quote:
I think he was right when he used "paranoia" for you, which you make pretty obvious by your refusal to admit you made a wrong assumption about his intent and your shrill attempts to keep the argument going. |
Shrill? I asked Molly to identify the person deriving amusement from this tragedy. Hardly shrill... Btw, refusing to acknowledge a mistake is not paranoia. 
quote:
For someone who claims to champion personal responsibility, it's amazing you never seem to take any for your own mistakes. |
What mistake? We have 2 interpretations, you accept yours and I accept mine.
quote:
I'm surprised you didn't lash out at me for correcting your error on the Tommy Chong thread (though you did blame it on FOX instead). |
Why would I? Do you realise you've just contradicted yourself? And yes, Laurie Dhue said 9 years, not 9 months. So what should have I done, typed 9 months instead of what I heard her say?
quote:
I've seen you and Molly butt heads before, so I know you don't like him and are eager to take him one whenever you can. |
Oh stfu, Molly jumped into this thread to compare someone to Hannibal Lector and started insulting me when I asked him to identify the "villain" so don't give me this sh!t about me being eager, etc., all I've done is try to get Molly to identify the target of his insult. And this is the first time I've gotten on Molly's case so I don't know what in the hell you're talking about.
quote:
And I saw how you falsely implied Dr. Strangelove wasn't a doctor because he dared to disagree with you with his medical opinion, and didn't make any attempt to apologize. |
First, how do you know I "falsely implied" Strangelove isn't a doctor? Have you seen his medical diploma? And it wasn't over his medical opinion, it was over his use of "reefer madness" style arguments in support of the drug war. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.
quote:
I'm well aware of your penchant for vindictiveness against anyone who dares to argue with you, but in this instance, I think it's safe to say you picked a battle unwisely and look like ever the paranoid fool. I can't wait for more eyerolls, with the hope they'll get lodged up there. |
Oh stop your BS! I'm not "vindictive" with people who disagree with me, just with people who start insulting me first. Feel free to actually prove an accusation for a change. Here is what started the insult war and if you look close, it wasn't me:
quote:
And Berzerker- unknot your knickers fer crissakes, I wasn't accusing you of deriving enjoyment from the demise of the children. I'm just glad to see you support the right of someone to hold to their faith- even when it means the death of others. |
That was from Molly in response to my post here:
quote:
That was part of George Carlin's routine, but Molly, this wasn't about a tornado hitting a church on Sunday, it was quite avoidable. And aside from David's comment about the Darwin Awards (obviously only applicable to the adults), who is "amused"? |
That was a simple and polite question. Now, aside from the nasty tone he starts off with, where in the hell did he get that BS about me supporting such a right? Yeah, Molly isn't here to insult anyone, it's all an honest mistake. I suggest you read the thread before blabbing on about "vindictiveness" because that insult from Molly preceded any negative comments I made about him. Whining about me being "vindictive" while ignoring Molly's posts is hypocritical. Btw, that was quite a vindictive post there, Mr Consistency...
Last edited by Berzerker on 13-09-2003 at 11:46
|
|
| |
|
|
|
molly bloom
|
 |
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:30
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
Molly -
No third option where intentions are unclear and someone asks for clarification? Try this, the next time someone asks a simple and polite question, answer it instead of throwing around insults and lies. |
I explained, you chose to believe I was insulting someone. I said I wasn't, you called me an 'intellectual coward' (exactly what, or who was I meant to be afraid of?), a purveyor of bullsh!t, etc,. Charm school clearly working.
Do you support a person's right to hold a particular faith? Such as say, Christian Scientists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and so on? Your post in the Alabama Decalogue case would seem to indicate so.
Unfortunately adherents of those faiths may have children- who have no choice about whether they are born to people who pursue those beliefs. Those beliefs have resulted in the deaths of children- children denied medical treatment and blood transfusions.
http://watchtower.observer.org/apps...ILDREN/10601009
http://watchtower.observer.org/apps...ILDREN/10727009
http://www.cultnews.com/archives/000359.html
http://www.secularhumanism.org/libr...rwood_23_03.htm
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Berzerker
|
|
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:30
|
|
Molly - quote:
I explained, you chose to believe I was insulting someone. I said I wasn't, you called me an 'intellectual coward' (exactly what, or who was I meant to be afraid of?), a purveyor of bullsh!t, etc,. Charm school clearly working. |
You're ignoring your first response after I asked for clarification, here it is again:
quote:
And Berzerker- unknot your knickers fer crissakes, I wasn't accusing you of deriving enjoyment from the demise of the children. I'm just glad to see you support the right of someone to hold to their faith- even when it means the death of others. |
All I did was ask "who was amused" and that was what I got in return - an insult and a lie (okay, a snide falsehood?) about me supporting the "right" of these parents to get their children killed. Now, I apologise for the "intellectual coward" insult since it is possible you didn't mean anyone in the thread was behaving like Hannibal Lector, but the BS charge stands.
quote:
Do you support a person's right to hold a particular faith? Such as say, Christian Scientists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and so on? Your post in the Alabama Decalogue case would seem to indicate so. |
Sure, and this is relevant? Did I say in that thread this right translates into a right to recklessly endanger others to the point of getting them killed? Nope, and it would have helped if you referenced the other thread so I would have had some idea where you were getting that nonsense. That other thread was about the 10 Commandments and a stone monument, not religious folk effectively killing their children through utter neglect.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
LoneWolf
|
|
Hey, the rabbit turd is back!!! Cool!!!!
These sorts of threads always intrigue me. If you don't believe, why do you care if others do? And if you do, (as I do), say what you believe and hope it sticks.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Lincoln
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Are you a closet Calvinist? |
I think that the will of man and the will of God both enter into the ultimate will of God which is superior. In other words, God get's in the first and last word but we get to play our part as well. The end is known by God but I think that Calvin missed something because he did not understand the relativity of time. It is entirely possible for one being in one deminsion to act out his little drama in his corner of the universe while the supreme being sees the future of our actions before we do.
Calvin thought of God as assigning men to an arbitrary destination. That is true to some extent because God created people with the full knowledge that some would end up in hell and others in heaven. Looking at the drama down here on earth though I think we would conclude that they deserved it. If Hitler, for example, is thrown into hell I don't think that too many people are going to shed a tear over it. And if the cleaning woman down the street ends up in heaven I don't think that the overall justice will be in question.
The justice of God is (throughout scripture) to lift up the poor and humble and destroy the powerful and arrogant. When Jesus came to earth he rejected the arrogant religious community and reached out to harlots, fishermen and the despised members of society. Calvanists too often think that they are the chosen. I think that God is still rejecting religious arrogance and drawing the weak and despised to his fellowship. I think that the Indians that were slaughtered will be in heaven beore their Calvanist persecutors will.
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:30.
Apolyton Time is 00:30. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
13-09-2003 08:01
|