11-09-2003 06:52									#1
	Pray all you want, but Increase the size of your Attachments

it won't do any good if you leave your brain sitting in the pews.

Case in point: recently NE Kansas was hit by a flurry of thunderstorms and flash floods. Several people drowned along a stretch of I-35 (the Kansas Turnpike), but the unfortunate reality is that a woman and her 3 (or4?) children who drowned didn't have to die. Before their minivan was swept from the road, the husband, wife, and children were in the van as the waters rose when a man tapped on the window offering assistance. The husband declined the offer telling the rescuer they'd pray instead.

FOR WHAT? HELP? The man was there to HELP!!!

Contrast that with another motorist trapped in the rising waters. An elderly woman - 79 years old - was assisted by another man (who ended up drowning himself helping others) and brought to safety. She prayed too, and behold, her prayer was heard and she was brought to safety.

You know, with all the people who die in this world every day, I just can't muster much sympathy for imbeciles who die because of their own stupidity, but far too often, they end up taking others with them. These children died because their parents left their brains at church...

During a press conference, the praying husband who did eventually escape the minivan while his family did not, lamented the incident adding that he hoped something good would come from the tragedy. Yeah, the next time you're in trouble use the brain God gave you!

	11-09-2003 06:58									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

This should be submitted to the Darwin Awards

	11-09-2003 07:05									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

That is very sad -- tragic.

	11-09-2003 07:12									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Berz isn't trolling for once.

This is sad though.

	11-09-2003 07:20									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Wasn't it Hannibal Lecter who amused himself by reading accounts of congregations killed in churches during natural disasters?

	11-09-2003 07:23									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Big to the parents. When in danger, save your life. Do your prayers later, when you have time

	11-09-2003 07:30									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

That was part of George Carlin's routine, but Molly, this wasn't about a tornado hitting a church on Sunday, it was quite avoidable. And aside from David's comment about the Darwin Awards (obviously only applicable to the adults), who is "amused"?

	11-09-2003 07:31									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

This isn't amusing at all, it really is tragic.

It's also ridiculous to the point of humorous, if you ignore the fact that people died.

	11-09-2003 07:58									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Wasn't it Hannibal Lecter who amused himself by reading accounts of congregations killed in churches during natural disasters?

quote: That was part of George Carlin's routine

George Carlin confused with Hannibal Lecter...he often deserves it

	11-09-2003 10:44									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

This year I knew of two people who drowned saving someone else.

	11-09-2003 10:56									#11
	Support Apolyton

How exactly was the arseho man saved and why not his family???

	11-09-2003 11:18									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Erm... well... this only reminds me of a mind strikingly similar joke.

During a flood a religious jew refused to evacuate his house when the police came. "I will pray to God and He will rescue me" he replied, and locked himself inside.

As the water levels rose, and the water covered the first floor of the house, a group of rescuers reached his window by boat and offered to save him. "No need. I will pray to God and He will rescue me" he replied again, and closed the window.

After the water levels began reached the top floor, the religious jew went on top of the roof. A group of rescuers on a helicopter arrived to offer him assistance. "No, go away. I am praying to God and I am positive he will save me" replied the religious jew again, and declined their offer of help.

Finally the water level rose and the jew drowned and went to heaven. When he reached heaven, he walked towards God and asked: "Tell me, I've been a worshipper and a just man all of my life. I've followed all the laws, did good deeds, and celebrated my faith in you. In this one time I put my life in your hands, and rely on your heavenly assistance, and you let me die like that? What's that all about?"

"Hey look - you have free will." God answered him. "At first I sent you warning with the police which you ignored, then I sent the boat to recover you, but you declined. When you finally turned down the helicpoter I sent for you, I thought you were a lost case."

	11-09-2003 12:38									#13
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Erm... well... this only reminds me of a mind strikingly similar joke. During a flood a religious jew refused to evacuate his house when the police came. "I will pray to God and He will rescue me" he replied, and locked himself inside. .....

Always a good joke. I think I'll see some more of that in the next few days, as the forecast said to expect some floods here as well, especially with this city's faulty sewers.

	11-09-2003 14:29									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Siro,

My thoughts exactly (except replace all instances of "Jew" with "Christian.")

	12-09-2003 04:49									#15
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I guess you gotta hate someone.

	12-09-2003 05:05									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Once again, a case where Man doesn't use that which separates him from other animals, logic and reasoning.
God's just sitting there saying, "Mmm mmm mmm".

	12-09-2003 05:07									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I think I would have a hard time saving myself and knowing my kids were in there. Maybe the man was swept out of the car and couldn't return but he has some explaining to do as far as I am concerned. But, this story reminds me of an incident over the Rock Mountains when an airplane was having engine problems and was heading down. The pilot asked the co-pilot to do something and he noticed he was praying. Anyway they made it back safely. When I was told this story by the chief pilot of the company we worked for I said; "Well maybe his prayers were answered??" He said he hadn't thought of that.

	12-09-2003 05:11									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: The pilot asked the co-pilot to do something and he noticed he was praying. Anyway they made it back safely. When I was told this story by the chief pilot of the company we worked for I said; "Well maybe his prayers were answered??" He said he hadn't thought of that.

I'd put my money on the pilot who was trying to fly the plane, if I'm under the knife I don't want to look up and see my doctor praying.

	12-09-2003 05:11									#19
	Tired of ads?

You assume he would save only himself.
No effort was made, of any kind.

What's his life insurance situation ?

	12-09-2003 05:15									#20
	Suffering from ads?

Impressive.I dont think i can feel sorry for someone like that the fault was all his own.

	12-09-2003 05:48									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Lincoln The pilot asked the co-pilot to do something and he noticed he was praying. Anyway they made it back safely. When I was told this story by the chief pilot of the company we worked for I said; "Well maybe his prayers were answered??" He said he hadn't thought of that.

I guess the folks on TWA 800, AA 273, AA 265, etc. just didn't pray hard enough, huh?

This man should be charged with reckless endangerment and manslaughter. His kids would be alive had he had a ****ing clue!

	12-09-2003 05:50									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Actually, Hannibal Lector collected newspaper articles about disasters that happened to full churches. So he wasn't mistaken for Carlin... they just have the same interests.

	12-09-2003 05:52									#23
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

If I was a Prosecutor I'd nail this moron's ass, no doubt. There was no criminal intent, so involuntary manslaughter would have to apply. Unfortunetly he'd get peanuts for this.

	12-09-2003 06:33									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by JohnT Actually, Hannibal Lector collected newspaper articles about disasters that happened to full churches. So he wasn't mistaken for Carlin... they just have the same interests.

I knew it rang a bell. But I was also reminded of Voltaire, too...

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/voltvern.htm

I have no idea who George Carlin is.

And Berzerker- unknot your knickers fer crissakes, I wasn't accusing you of deriving enjoyment from the demise of the children. I'm just glad to see you support the right of someone to hold to their faith- even when it means the death of others.

	12-09-2003 06:41									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I guess the folks on TWA 800, AA 273, AA 265, etc. just didn't pray hard enough, huh?

I don't remember saying or implying that. Nor did I say that the co-pilot's prayers were answered. I repeated a story told to me. Sometimes the answer to prayer is no.

	12-09-2003 06:51									#26
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Which would still beg the question as to why certain individual's prayers are meriting a "yes," and certain a "no," especially when the lives of possibly hundreds of others are also in the balance. I'd like to think any answerer of prayers wouldn't be so arbitrary...

	12-09-2003 07:02									#27
	Got spare money?

Well I have never though of God as a genie who must give us everything we want. i don't think that anyone, for example, wants their mother to die and I would suppose that most people who believe in God would pray that she would not die. But all those prayers are obviously not answered. That does not make God cruel. Death and suffering are part of this life. There is no promise that God will keep everyone alive.

	12-09-2003 07:05									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Even if I were a theist, I'd have a hard time believing God answers any prayers. What's willed is willed, and the omnipotent, omniscient creator of everything is both incapable of changing its mind, and also has no interest in playing favorites with its beings.

	12-09-2003 07:12									#29
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Well actually I agree with you to some extent. I am pretty much a fatalist myself.

	12-09-2003 07:16									#30
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Molly -

quote: And Berzerker- unknot your knickers fer crissakes, I wasn't accusing you of deriving enjoyment from the demise of the children. I'm just glad to see you support the right of someone to hold to their faith- even when it means the death of others.

Molly, you accused someone of deriving amusement from this incident and I asked who you were targeting with that accusation - and you still haven't answered (how brave). And given that last bit about me supporting a right to have faith even when it kills others is just as idiotic as your first accusation (I see you don't use quotes, what a surprise) - just go away and take your bullsh!t with you.