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Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:30
  Old Post 11-09-2003 10:27
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http://channels.netscape.com/ns/new...0&w=RTR&coview=

quote:
Blue Movies Proliferate in Post-Saddam Iraq



BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Outside the cinemas on Saadoun Street, groups of men loiter round film posters of naked women, whose private parts are crudely super-imposed with underwear drawn in colored pen.

Behind doors in Baghdad's main movie strip, there is no such teasing.

Barely a seat is empty as hundreds of men, most puffing cigarettes, sit in total silence and darkness to enjoy scenes of nudity and sex for 1,000 Iraqi dinars ($0.50) a time.

"Under Saddam, forget it. You would go to jail for showing or watching this," said movie-watcher Mohammed Jassim at the Atlas Cinema where one of the films on offer was disturbingly named "Real Raping."


The fall of Saddam Hussein liberalised Iraq's cinema industry overnight.


Pornographic movies which had circulated only secretly before suddenly came into the open. The smuggling of films from abroad became overt importing. And demand has proved high despite Iraq's strict Muslim morals.


With no Ministry of Information censorship department to get round any more, most Baghdad cinemas are now showing primarily "romantic" and "sexy" films as Iraqis euphemistically call soft- and hard-core movies respectively.


The few places trying to maintain respectability have been forced to mix their bill to include a few crowd-pulling blue movies to cover costs.


"We feel bitter and disgusted to show such pictures because this cinema has always shown good films. But if we don't, there is no money to pay our wages and rent," said Isaam Abdul Kareem, who has taken tickets for 20 years at Baghdad's prestigious Semiramis cinema.


"Just 50 people a day come in for good films. Hundreds come for the 'romantic' ones. We must go with the market."


The open proliferation of mainly U.S. and European-made porno films, and the pavement posters advertising them, has shocked Iraq's religious leaders.


They hope the novelty factor will wear off and a new Iraqi government -- which the postwar U.S.-led occupiers are struggling to get in place -- will re-impose restrictions such as age-limits for cinemas and a ban on nudity.


"SINFUL" CINEMAS THREATENED


"A revolution or a big change like the one we had with the end of Saddam is like a flood," said Mohammed Saleh Al-Ubaidi, a 73-year-old Sunni Muslim imam whose Baghdad mosque is a stone's throw from Saadoun Street.


"It brings a lot of trash and wood with it, but then soon after clear water comes. That is what we hope for Iraq...Under Saddam, there was prohibition only. Now there must be persuasion too."


Some among the majority Shi'ite Muslim community are already taking matters into their own hands.


In the mainly Shi'ite south, for example, Basra's three cinemas closed for two weeks after young men on motorbikes turned up warning that if they showed "sinful" movies they would be burned down.


When they re-opened, sex was off the agenda and it was back to Arabic movies and U.S. action films -- the staple of prewar cinema bills.


One cinema manager, who asked not to be named for fear of provoking the clerics, recounted the dangerous games he used to play under Saddam.


"We had to take films for approval to the Ministry of Information, where they could say 'no' or cut out the bad parts," he said. "But we paid bribes to keep the hot shots in. Or, if they cut them out anyway, we would go somewhere else to buy them and put them back in again."


Now operating freely, his Baghdad cinema was plastered with raunchy posters of U.S. sex symbol Pamela Anderson and pop star Christina Aguilera. On show were the film version of British author D.H. Lawrence's explicit novel "Lady Chatterley's Lover" and a seedy-looking Italian film "Love, Pleasure and Romance."


Faris Sami, who owns a shop selling films on CDs -- including a fair sprinkling of "romantic" and "sexy" films -- is worried about the corrupting effect on teenagers and would like to see some restrictions back.


But he is relieved not to be running the same risks as before when he and his business partner would secretly sell sex films to trusted clients and friends.


"Uday (Saddam's son) had a big campaign a couple of years ago. They put my partner in jail for three months," Sami said in his Baghdad shop. "For them, everything was allowed. For the people, everything prohibited."


No comment.

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 10:37 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
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is this really the Iraqi Freedom that the war was for? I doubt the US govt would approve.

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 11:46 Visit Dis's homepage!
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Combat Ingrid is offline Combat Ingrid
Chieftain
Satan's Majestic Empire
Nov 2001
time: 06:30
  Old Post 11-09-2003 11:57
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Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
Prince
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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 12:02
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Good for them. But let's see what the Ayatollas say about this.

dannubis is offline dannubis
Chieftain
Ghent
Apr 2002
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 12:33
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and with them, the ordinary man in the streets ...

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
Prince
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Sep 2000
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 14:27
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IIRC, prostitution and gambling are also enjoying a newfound popularity...

USA! USA! USA!

Cruddy is offline Cruddy
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Mar 2003
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 16:04 Visit Cruddy's homepage!
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What's the problem? If people don't like it, riots and lynching follows.

Democracy at it's best.

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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Jan 2003
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 16:09 Visit Whaleboy's homepage!
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Who here wants/needs me to start on this? You know my views, you know I'm right!

Thread title:

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
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Oct 1999
time: 21:30
  Old Post 11-09-2003 16:36
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Why is porn "American culture?"

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 16:52
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Good for them.
The tide of pornography will abate at some point in the future anyway, and pornography will find its ordinary place in the society. Unless the ayatollahs manage enough support to oppress pornography once again, which will end up making the relationship between society and pornography unhealthy once again.

This, with the increase of beer imports, is the best news I've heard from Iraq yet. I'd love to see a society where people want to be "sinners", for they'll be less religious

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
Prince
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 16:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Good for them.
The tide of pornography will abate at some point in the future anyway, and pornography will find its ordinary place in the society. Unless the ayatollahs manage enough support to oppress pornography once again, which will end up making the relationship between society and pornography unhealthy once again.

This, with the increase of beer imports, is the best news I've heard from Iraq yet. I'd love to see a society where people want to be "sinners", for they'll be less religious


You know, I love my beer (and, hell, my porn), so I agree with your sentiments here. But the danger is that, the more th society liberalizes, the more fuel it gives the ayatollahs (just like in the US, where post-60s liberal social values have fueled the rise of Ayatollah Falwell and his cronies). If we were sure that secular liberalism would win and the ayatollahs would lose, then there'd be no problem. But what if we're wrong?

finkian is offline finkian
Settler
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Mar 2002
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 16:59
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The Iraqi people are going through something akin to their first year of college... their first year away from mom and dad. It'll calm down, once it's government has more control over their own legislation.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 17:05
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Rufus:
Well, the main thing is to know whether the majority of the population wants it or not. Many attempts of modernization in the Muslim world have failed because they were dictated by the ruler, and the population often disagreed (example of it being Iran under the Shah).

Modernization in Iraq, despite being imposed by the top, was successful because of Saddam's iron hand. It led to a rather non-religious society, in which alcohol was widely accepted. Saddam didn't accept porn (which is stupid from the point of view of an anti-religious despot) and it seems the Iraqi society is accepting it by itself.

However, you're right it'd be better if the tide abated soon, because otherwise, more traditional parts of society could get mightily pissed. One can only hope, cinemas in rural or traditional villages display porn too

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
Warlord
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Apr 2002
time: 05:30
  Old Post 11-09-2003 18:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Why is porn "American culture?"


Because you make so much of it.

And we love you for it.

Its better than Macdonalds

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
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USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 20:18 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
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True, McD's is a lot worse.

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
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May 2001
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 21:04 Visit Inverse Icarus's homepage!
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this is good for them, but even better for america.

corrupt their morals, and they shall abandon their faith, the heathens.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 23:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Uber KruX
corrupt their morals, and they shall abandon their faith, the heathens.

This is basically my point of view. The more heathen they are, the less likely they'll be fundamentalists

Empress is offline Empress
The Empress
cause mingy loves me
Apr 2000
time: 23:30
Red face  Old Post 11-09-2003 23:26
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quote:
Originally posted by finkian
The Iraqi people are going through something akin to their first year of college... their first year away from mom and dad. It'll calm down, once it's government has more control over their own legislation.


I think you accuretly pinpointed what is going on over there. The looting and everything is a result of being supressed for so long.

However, I am disappointed that "freedom" these days tends to be expressed in such non-productive means... Again, just like teenagers given their first taste of freedom though, I suppose those raking in the $$ would say otherwise

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 23:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
This, with the increase of beer imports, is the best news I've heard from Iraq yet. I'd love to see a society where people want to be "sinners", for they'll be less religious


Hell, if I was Iraqi I'd sense a market opportunity. Start a small brewery and you could soon own the Iraqi beer market. It sounds like and ideal place for Iraq's Asyrian Christian minority to set up shop.

MrFun is offline MrFun
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Nov 2000
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 23:33 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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I wonder if there is any danger in a society changing too quickly though?

It is good that Iraqis are more liberated than ever before, but could their society be changing too quickly?

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 23:36 Visit Whaleboy's homepage!
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Pornography is technically french...

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 23:36
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quote:
Originally posted by TheStinger
Because you make so much of it.
And we love you for it.


Yeah, I hear the San Fernando Valley in LA is the world's porn capital. I guess alot of actresses and actors move to Holliwood hoping to make it big but the only "acting" job they can find is taking it up the backside on film.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 23:37
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Suffering from ads?

Thank god for bad actresses

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 23:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
It sounds like and ideal place for Iraq's Asyrian Christian minority to set up shop.

The Muslims can do it too. Alcohol was produced in Iraq under Saddam, and a great many Iraqi Muslims drink beer. I don't think there will be any incompatibility there.

MrFun:
This is very possible. The main question is whether this change is homogenous or not. If Iraq gets divided between sinful cities and traditional countryside, a Iran-like problem may well emerge

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 11-09-2003 23:38
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(at Japher's comment)

MrFun is offline MrFun
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 00:31 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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thanks for your opinion, Spiffor

Hueij is offline Hueij
Emperor
Kokonino Kounty
May 1999
time: 06:30
  Old Post 12-09-2003 01:19
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One thing you people forget...

If you want to "westernize" third world countries you also have to offer them a western standard of living. If the only thing you are offering them are the crumbs from our table you can be sure it won't work.

And considering how the WTO meeting in Cancun is going...

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 01:47
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If we really wanted to improve the economies of the third world we'd ditch farm subsidies in the rich countries. After all most of the third world's economies are mainly agricultural. I wouldn't hold my breath though...

Japher is offline Japher
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 01:59
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Cutting out farm subsidies altogether would be a bad idea as food production wold drop drastically unti the 3rd world farmer a) learned how to farm and b) managed up an actual supply...

A better idea might be to phase them out, which is actually happening as Corporations take over mom and pop farms...

Mom and Pop, though need the subsidies.

 
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