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Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 00:23
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A Communique from Subcomandante Marcos Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote:
Subcomandante Marcos
Thursday September 11, 2003
The Guardian

Brothers and sisters of Mexico and the world, who are gathered in Cancun in a mobilisation against neo-liberalism, greetings from the men, women, children and elderly of the Zapatista National Liberation Army. It is an honour for us that, amid your meetings, agreements and mobilisations, you have found time and place to hear our words.

The world movement against the globalisation of death and destruction is experiencing one of its brightest moments in Cancun today. Not far from where you are meeting, a handful of slaves to money are negotiating the ways and means of continuing the crime of globalisation.

The difference between them and all of us is not in the pockets of one or the other, although their pockets overflow with money while ours overflow with hope.

No, the difference is not in the wallet, but in the heart. You and we have in our hearts a future to build. They only have the past which they want to repeat eternally. We have hope. They have death. We have liberty. They want to enslave us.

This is not the first time, nor will it be the last, that the people who think themselves the owners of the planet have had to hide behind high walls and their pathetic security forces in order to put their plans in place.

As if at war, the high command of the multinational army that wants to conquer the world in the only way possible, that is to say, to destroy it, meets behind a system of security that is as large as their fear.

Before, the powerful met behind the backs of the world to scheme their future wars and displacements. Today they have to do it in front of thousands in Cancun and millions around the world.

That is what this is all about. It is war. A war against humanity. The globalisation of those who are above us is nothing more than a global machine that feeds on blood and defecates in dollars.

In the complex equation that turns death into money, there is a group of humans who command a very low price in the global slaughterhouse. We are the indigenous, the young, the women, the children, the elderly, the homosexuals, the migrants, all those who are different. That is to say, the immense majority of humanity.

This is a world war of the powerful who want to turn the planet into a private club that reserves the right to refuse admission. The exclusive luxury zone where they meet is a microcosm of their project for the planet, a complex of hotels, restaurants, and recreation zones protected by armies and police forces.

All of us are given the option of being inside this zone, but only as servants. Or we can remain outside of the world, outside life. But we have no reason to obey and accept this choice between living as servants or dying. We can build a new path, one where living means life with dignity and freedom. To build this alternative is possible and necessary. It is necessary because on it depends the future of humanity.

This future is up for grabs in every corner of each of the five continents. This alternative is possible because around the world people know that liberty is a word which is often used as an excuse for cynicism.

Brothers and sisters, there is dissent over the projects of globalisation all over the world. Those above, who globalise conformism, cynicism, stupidity, war, destruction and death. And those below who globalise rebellion, hope, creativity, intelligence, imagination, life, memory and the construction of a world that we can all fit in, a world with democracy, liberty and justice.

We hope the death train of the World Trade Organisation will be derailed in Cancun and everywhere else.


Well he'd been quiet for a while. Got to say I'd really like to know who he is.

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
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Mar 2000
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 00:28 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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Fez wasn´t around for a while....

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 00:29
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quote:
Originally posted by BeBro
Fez wasn´t around for a while....


SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 00:29 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Where's Kramerman been ?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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Funny how all those "anti"-globalization protestors look Mexican and not at all like white suburban kids from el norte.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 00:41
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Funny how all those "anti"-globalization protestors look Mexican and not at all like white suburban kids from el norte.


Yeah and funny how they are somehow portrayed as anti-trade when what they want is an end to US Farm subsidies.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 02:45 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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I thought it was a message from MarkG from the army

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 02:55
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Markos is a Mexican-American who recieved a left leaning education in the US and then returned to MExico in order to start a revolution. Also as usual Markos and his fellow leftists have no solutions. Instead he claims that foreign investors wish to enslave people but he can't come up with one viable way on how to increase the number of jobs or help the enviroment other then to chase the foreigners out.

Markos and his leftist ilk will only further harm the indegious people by, still more, retarding their economic growth and leaving them in ever worsening poverty.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 03:01 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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Yeah but you have to have control over the foreign investments and their ilk as well.

cant have what cuba was before the revolution. casinos and brothels for fat westerners while the people were dieing and exploited.


got to have everything in good measure

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 03:10
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Yes, but how has modern Cuba changed? You still have rich, fat western tourists living like kings with local girls standing in line to prostitute themselves.

I agree this is not a good thing but the communist dogma Markos advicates has hardly changed the situation in places like Cuba.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 03:12 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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Got spare money?

sure you have but it's not the whole country and it is controlled by a central government not by a tiny plutocracy.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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Ok maybe Marcos is "harsh" but all self taking control movements are harsh at first.

got to have something to rally people around.

then once you have the control of your country you can, hopefully, turn things around for the better.

however just letting your country be exploited isnt a solution either.

not talking about mexic AFAIK its not like that

Japher is offline Japher
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Jun 2002
time: 05:30
  Old Post 12-09-2003 03:15
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I think he sounds fine... hope that's not a shocker.

One of Mexico's biggest problems is their lack of pride in identifing as a Mexican... Most of them won't say they are Mexican. They say they are Myan, Incan, or some other aborigional tribe...

Marocs sounds like the type of person that can make a Mexican say "I am Mexican, and I am proud."

With that kind of change in attitude perhaps the country will follow.

realpolitic is offline realpolitic
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Rogue States of America
Mar 2002
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I found the statement disappointing, "preaching to the choir". Specifics might go a long way, such as some of the IMF's destructive policies.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 03:17 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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whereas Cubans have no such problems.
That says something about pride

Japher is offline Japher
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 03:19
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quote:
whereas Cubans have no such problems.


All the ones that were causing the problems no live in Florida, or pitch for the MLB...

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 03:21 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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Good point as well.

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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Jan 2003
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 03:22 Visit Whaleboy's homepage!
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quote:

neo-liberalism


Someone care to explain?

quote:

his fellow leftists have no solutions


Nah, I'm feeling merciful...

Japher is offline Japher
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 03:23
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neo-liberalism is communism

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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Jan 2003
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 03:25 Visit Whaleboy's homepage!
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What kind of communism?

Japher is offline Japher
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 03:27
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Got spare money?

socialistic, take from the rich give to the lazy, government regulating, death to the free market, that ain't money that is blood communism.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:30
  Old Post 12-09-2003 03:28
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Japher: you moron .

elijah: neo-liberalism is basically Adam Smith, Ricardo style free market capitalism. One of the main tenants of the idea is in total free markets (no tariffs whatsoever).

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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Ah ok! As a libertarian communist, I'm about as capitalist as you can get (up to the point where it starts sucking).

EDIT: Or not. Thanks Imran.

Japher is offline Japher
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 03:29
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quote:
I'm about as capitalist as you can get (up to the point where it starts sucking).




I'm a fiscal conservative and social liberal... 0.0, 0.0

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 03:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher
neo-liberalism is communism

Good one Japher

Not quite Japher.
Neo-liberalism is the economic doctrine which inspired Thatcher and Reagan, and their "the market is the best solution to all problems" policy.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 03:34
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You know, Elijah is the only person on this board who has his own complete, grand, encompassing, theory of everything.

Does that say something about our mental competence, or his?

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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Ummm... thats not quite so good. Neo-liberalism is just a libertarian approach to capitalism imo. In other words, free market meaning no involvement, no help or impedence, until there is the potential for breach of Mill Limit. Anyways, must sleep!

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 03:38
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quote:
Neo-liberalism is just a libertarian approach to capitalism imo.


Or rather libertarianism is just a neo-liberal approach to everything .

I'm not quite a neo-liberal, just as I'm not quite a neo-conservative, but I do like some of its teachings.

JCG is offline JCG
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 12-09-2003 03:39
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He has decent to good PR but no real chance of making any of his words into reality, IMHO.

From what I've gathered from a couple of Mexican friends, he seems to be politically irrelevant in Mexico, as long as he doesn't try anything big (that's when they slap him around some, but just enough to leave him walking/talking, as they don't want to enrage all you lefties more than necessary).

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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quote:
Originally posted by realpolitic
I found the statement disappointing, "preaching to the choir". Specifics might go a long way, such as some of the IMF's destructive policies.


Realpolitic: Where exactly is the University of Guelph and why should I care what a Professor of Philosophy thinks about economic systems specially since he can't even articulate what the IMF's role is in the modern global economy? I seriously doubt this man has the expertise to properly talk turkey when it comes to economics (if his rantings are any guide any way) so why should we consider his opinion to be an expert source?

The long term effect of IMF policies, I.E. that debters should spend less then they earn and should be in a position to repay loans before we agree to lend them more money, is a solid one.

 
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