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Marid Audran
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Salt Lake City, Utah
May 2001
time: 22:30
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What are yours in a Civilization II game?
Probably most of mine come from approaching CivII from an "intuitive," gestalt perspective more than a "sensory," detail-orientated one, checking your cities every turn with F4 and being zealous about caravan production and accruing beaker rates, and so forth. I play a common-sense game and follow general guidelines about what to build and when, probably akin to the average strong player (I play on Emperor level). This amounts to steady, piecemeal development, though I imagine not without inefficiency; examples such as hanging out in Monarchy a few decades longer than you should because I like supporting three units per city, ditto with Republic because dealing with a stagnant civ before the transition into Democracy several turns in late-game is a hassle, and building city improvements I probably don't need. I also can't help being egalitarian about my cities; they ALL need marketplaces/libraries/banks/universities/stock exchanges/research labs/superhighways! And building things like mass transits and recycling centers because I don't like the idea of promoting ultra-polluting city-scapes, even with scores of engineers sauntering around to clean up waste. My early game probably isn't all it should be, since there seems to be a billion things to do and not enough shields in the world to do it in. It's not uncommon in the 1600s for me to have nothing but barracks/granaries/temples/cathedrals in my cities because I've been too busy expanding into permanent nation boundries and building caravans to do much else (though usually the game really picks up by the time Industrialization is discovered). Usually my spaceship lands on AC in the late 20th or early 21th century.
Bad habits I no longer do:
Neglecting home defences: Just because one staves off war with the AI with the Great War/UN/bribes doesn't mean it's full-proof. Bad experiences of dealing with bellicose mid-game AI landing their cavalry/cannons/armor on my shores against cities defended by antiquated phalanxes/pikemen scared me straight. Now I update all my defenders when appropriate tech becomes available, I include "countertrike" fast units in critical cities (including fighters in the modern era), and city walls in border territories.
Neglecting counter-espionage forces in cities: Less crucial than standard defences but important nonetheless. Ultimately by late-game the point is moot however, as AI will steal any space-race tech they please with diplomats entering cities guarded by veteran spies.
Building the Manhattan Project: Another bad habit I conquered.
Not bringing down enemy city walls before sending in the troops: Speaks for itself. Middle Age/Rennisance wars are the worst, since I usually have to send 5-6 diplomats into a city I want to sack in order for the buggers to [/i]finally[i] target the city walls.
Neglecting creating trade routes: I no longer do this, despite the great nuisance in building three caravans a-piece in your major cities, loading them onto caravels/galleons, and then starting the often prolix journey overseas to a neighboring civ to dump them off. The long-term effects of trade are simply too much of a boon to write caravans off due to laziness.
So those are some of my current and past bad habits in a Civ game. What are yours?
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Six Thousand Year Old Man
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Ad Rock
Aug 2000
time: 00:30
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A lot of the things you mention aren't bad habits. 
quote:
Originally posted by Marid Audran
Probably most of mine come from approaching CivII from an "intuitive," gestalt perspective more than a "sensory," detail-orientated one, checking your cities every turn with F4 and being zealous about caravan production and accruing beaker rates, and so forth. |
I do that too, but not out of a gestalt perspective, I'm impatient, and lazy. Micromanaging for 300 turns makes the game go very slowly.
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I play a common-sense game and follow general guidelines about what to build and when, probably akin to the average strong player (I play on Emperor level). |
Why not Deity? That'll cure some bad habits... it did for me.
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This amounts to steady, piecemeal development, though I imagine not without inefficiency; examples such as hanging out in Monarchy a few decades longer than you should because I like supporting three units per city, |
Not necessarily a bad thing. Celebrating Monarchy is a good thing - trade bonuses are as Republic and you have martial law to quell unrest. In very early Republic, I find my production is stunted, and maintaining Triremes/Caravels at sea is hard. Anyway, a lot of the warlike types go straight from Monarchy to Democracy... what I mean is they learn Democracy, build the Statue, and go Fundy 
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ditto with Republic because dealing with a stagnant civ before the transition into Democracy several turns in late-game is a hassle, and building city improvements I probably don't need. |
My rule of thumb is that I won't go from Monarchy to Republic before getting Michelangelo. And hopefully, I have HG as well. I often wait for Bach or Suffrage to go to Democracy - unless I'm being very peaceful and my best ships are Galleons/Transports. If I don't have many of Mike's/HG/Bach/Suff, I often will just stay in Monarchy until Fundy.
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I also can't help being egalitarian about my cities; they ALL need marketplaces/libraries/banks/universities/stock exchanges/research labs/superhighways! And building things like mass transits and recycling centers because I don't like the idea of promoting ultra-polluting city-scapes, even with scores of engineers sauntering around to clean up waste. |
Definitely bad habits, all of the above.  I used to be that way, but now I try to not build improvements unless the situation completely cries out for them. The default is always Settlers/Caravans/attack units. For example, my SSC gets a library, but most of the others don't until they're, oh, about size 12 and have 30+ arrows.
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My early game probably isn't all it should be, since there seems to be a billion things to do and not enough shields in the world to do it in. |
Looks up DaveV's resource square usage article in the GL. It changed my life  
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Bad habits I no longer do:
Neglecting home defences: Just because one staves off war with the AI with the Great War/UN/bribes doesn't mean it's full-proof. |
Lots of defenders IS a bad habit in the late game IMO. You should be able to defend yourself with diplomacy, a good reputation, and the odd gift. Failing that, it's cheaper generally to mount an offense and take out the AI that's bothering you, than to defend your myriad cities.
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Building the Manhattan Project: Another bad habit I conquered. |
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Neglecting creating trade routes: I no longer do this, despite the great nuisance in building three caravans a-piece in your major cities, loading them onto caravels/galleons, and then starting the often prolix journey overseas to a neighboring civ to dump them off. The long-term effects of trade are simply too much of a boon to write caravans off due to laziness. |
Yes, even I'm not so lazy as to neglect trade. Easiest way to win.
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So those are some of my current and past bad habits in a Civ game. What are yours? |
1. Sheer impatience/laziness. Example: I learn Monarchy in 2800BC. Just missed the oedo year. I regularly forget to revolt in 2700 and before I know it, it's 2600... and, repeat... 
I often hit end of turn before checking things, because the interesting part of the game for me is what happens next turn, not what I should be doing this turn.
2. All others pale next to bad habit #1.  I suppose my other major bad habit is not focusing on one of conquest or AC... I find myself expanding and attacking AIs while trying at the same time to get 1 turn/tech so as to land on AC. If I focused on one or the other, I'd win faster.
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rjmatsleepers
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I share with every one else the bad habit of missing several oedo years by forgetting to revolt. I like a celebrating monarchy and don't switch to republic until I have built Shakespear's Theatre and an aqueduct in my SC. I switch to democracy as soon as I have replaced my triremes and caravels with galleons.
The big fault I'm trying to cure at the moment is not setting up my ship chains properly. One ship gets out of position; I try to correct it and suddenly it's taking three turns to deliver a caravan that should have got there in a single turn. And I haven't got the hang of the wonder bread trick to open commodities in my SC.
Also I'm not very efficient at building spaceship parts. I probably need to put more effort in to building production in time for the end game. (I usually go for landing rather than conquest.)
I'd better stop there - if I listed all my faults we'd be here all night. Anyone who wants the full details is invited to look at the save after my next turn in the silly rules game.
RJM at Sleepers
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Marid Audran
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Salt Lake City, Utah
May 2001
time: 22:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man |
quote:
Why not Deity? That'll cure some bad habits... it did for me. |
I was a habitual King-level player years ago before SMAC was released. When SMAC hit the shelves I made the transition to Brian R's sci-fi epic and more or less permanently made my home on the SMAC boards. I occassionally return to CivII and this is one of these times. I've just become comfortable enough at Emperor level to consistently win, and have recently started my first Diety level game. Civil unrest in your cities (in SMAC we'd call this "extra drones" due to inefficiency with #of bases) and the slow accumulation of science is much more evident; beelining for Monarchy is much more important than it was at Emperor level it seems.
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My rule of thumb is that I won't go from Monarchy to Republic before getting Michelangelo. And hopefully, I have HG as well. I often wait for Bach or Suffrage to go to Democracy - unless I'm being very peaceful and my best ships are Galleons/Transports. If I don't have many of Mike's/HG/Bach/Suff, I often will just stay in Monarchy until Fundy. |
I agree with this strategy. Happiness wonders are of supreme importance with transitions into Republic/Democracy, otherwise the resource strain and the revenues needed for luxuries just aren't worth it. I can't even remember the last time I built a regular cathedral actually...
quote:
Definitely bad habits, all of the above. I used to be that way, but now I try to not build improvements unless the situation completely cries out for them. The default is always Settlers/Caravans/attack units. For example, my SSC gets a library, but most of the others don't until they're, oh, about size 12 and have 30+ arrows. |
I typically don't start building trade multipliers until I establish trade routes in that particular city. I have a hard time justifying building a marketplace in a city producing four coins.  I agree with what you say however; I suppose the sentimental part of me that indulges in excess improvement construction likes to believe I'm building a "civilized" empire for my citizenry to live in.
quote:
Bad habits I no longer do:
[q]Lots of defenders IS a bad habit in the late game IMO. You should be able to defend yourself with diplomacy, a good reputation, and the odd gift. Failing that, it's cheaper generally to mount an offense and take out the AI that's bothering you, than to defend your myriad cities. |
I have a hard time abiding by this; the animosity I encounter from the AI from year 1850 AD or so onwards is overwhelming, spotless rep or not, bribery with tech or tithes or not! They regularly break treaties/cease-fires both in and out of counsel and I just find it's too much risk. From the indulstrial era onwards none of the AI seem districtive to me any longer, the difference betwixt the Babylonians and the Mongols is moot as all the AI civs turn into one big jealous seething mob of perfidy.
quote:
1. Sheer impatience/laziness. Example: I learn Monarchy in 2800BC. Just missed the oedo year. I regularly forget to revolt in 2700 and before I know it, it's 2600... and, repeat... |
quote:
All others pale next to bad habit #1. I suppose my other major bad habit is not focusing on one of conquest or AC... I find myself expanding and attacking AIs while trying at the same time to get 1 turn/tech so as to land on AC. If I focused on one or the other, I'd win faster. |
I'm typically only aggressive early in game whilst carving out my boundries as a nation. Sharing islands is always a nuisance.
Thanks for your input 6000 YO Man.
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duke o' york
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I never go to Republic if I think that I'm close to discovering Democracy and so will often mess about in Monarchy for far too long. I prefer to have the happy wonders to be able to support a luxury-free democracy before changing and won't take risks so I often miss out on those lovely double trade arrows and can fall behind (well, slightly less ahead) in science.
I haven't lost to conquest (well, apart from OCC) for years so I often underestimate the strength of AI civs when I'm trying to conquer them. I aim for overwhelming force and far more troops then necessary, but occasionally will do something daft like not check the number of cities they have and end up with some howitzers in the open and not enough left to take the remaining few cities. This only tends to cost a few units and very seldom cities, but it is annoying. Oh, and I also have offensive troops defending captured cities, which is a complete waste, but I feel that if I'm going to send another transport across then I want it full to the brim with howies, and not with defenders!
I have never made a note of Oedo years either, so will often get lucky by having a general idea of when the next will be, but also sometimes **** up and spend 4 turns in anarchy. 
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Mercator
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Sorekara no Nanimo
Jan 1970
time: 06:30
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My bad habits?
I just can't get around to actually implementing any of the strategies, tips, tricks or formulas I've read here.
I pretty much run a perfectionist empire. I expand slowly, try to avoid all enemy contact until I've grown to full power and got everything the way I want (as far as my own empire is concerned). Which means I play defensive, until about the 20th century when I start taking over the enemy with hordes of spies, or simply by building a spaceship.
I rarely trade.
And somehow, I thoroughly enjoy the end-game micromanagement. I've been known to continue playing games until well after I've conquered everybody or launched my spaceship, just to get the entire continent covered with a farmlanded and railroaded swath of fully developed cities with stable populations of over 40...
Not to mention my OCC-gone-wrong. The Greeks have conquered (almost) all of the (swamp-covered, due to excessive use of nukes) world. It's now almost 3000AD and I have 4 cities (still doing OCC, but I find capturing and starving cities acceptible), the Greeks still have 60+.
And I can't seem to be able to properly plan a war either. I usually end up sending an invasion force that's only half sufficient and then wasting production on driveling in backup until I realise that isn't gonna cut it. I then abandon the war until I can send in my spies centuries later.
Maybe that's why I've kind of lost interest in playing civ2 (even though I'm as active as ever in just about every other imaginable aspect of civ2).
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My Wife Hates CIV
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Michigan
Jan 1970
time: 05:30
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bad habits??
being the best player here should pretty much tell you I dont have any. Savage has a few... but that makes it fun!
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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:30
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1. JOMT (Just One More Turn)...
2. Playing past 1am...
3. Neglecting family...
4. Thinking about Civ games during boring meetings...
5. Sucking fun out of Civ with late-game perfectionist micro-management...
That the kind of thing you were thinking about?
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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:30
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...doesn't make them GOOD habits...
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Marid Audran
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Salt Lake City, Utah
May 2001
time: 22:30
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Just finished my first Diety level game. Early game was the most difficult stage before it stream-lined into more familiar terrain during mid-game, and ipso facto felt more like an average Emperor game. I've actually had some Emperor games give me more trouble than this one.
I played the Japanese and was bequethed no special favors; started with NO technology. I was located on a medium-sized island with two neighbors, the Spanish and Sioux. Space tended to be at a premium and everyone wanted to infringe on everyone else's borders. Luckily I constricted my rivals and forged a larger bronze-age empire. War soon followed in the iron age though my rivals lacked weapons and numbers so they were muscled into the history books.
Taming unhappy citizens was a signifigant challenge in this game, even with the assistance of the wonders I had (Oracle, Michaelangelo's Chapel, J. S. Bach's Cathedral). Citizens started to become unhappy from pop one so quickly it was pointless to found a city without an accompanying military unit willing to stay there, and quickly rush-build a temple or phalanx before the city grew! Technology also came at a snail's pace. I b-lined to Monarchy, was able to trade along neglected tech lines with my short-lived neighbors, and snatch up the Great Library to appease all this.
Sometime in the 18th century I went straight to Democracy from Monarchy and never looked back; didn't even bother with Republic (felt like the old days of Civ I). I hate dealing with intermediary unrest and corruption whilst "waiting" for your government to re-form.
My only real rivals were the Celts a continent over with their own comprable empire. They become the standard enraged idiots you expect of the AI in the 20th century but other than that behaved themselves for the majority of the game.
A nice finish; my 40,000 colonist spaceship landed in 1958, I finished with a pop just shy of 40 million, and had a civ score of 167%, my highest to date! 
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12-09-2003 05:28
Lots of trade is involved, I'm sure.
(Right now I'm playing a Prince-level game to see if my desire to win can overcome my desire to do these dumb things.)
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