13-09-2003 08:40									#1
	Turn 117, 230BC Get a bigger avatar today!

To be edited only by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- Iron cut
- Republic
- Researching Engineering (25) 1 scientist.
- 332 gold. +23 gpt
- Slider at 9/0/1 tax/sci/lux


Urgent questions & tasks
- Take the plunge? 4 4 4, or 7 7 7
- Trade with GWT
- Trade agreement written up with CFC.
- Determining turn that we attack. We can be ready to attack on T 121, 4 from now.


Unit Movement & Actions:

All units (excepting Warriors to be upgraded in Mingapulco) in Army Group A/B (AGA/B) to remain (fortified) on the road tile 8 of Cuido where they can maintain the maximum mobility to deal with a GCA threat.

AGA/B contains: 3 vet Horseman, 13 vet MIs, 6 vet NMs, 1 elite Warrior, 7 vet Warriors, 2 Catapults, 1 Settler (35 units)

All new Warriors to join assembly point at Mingapulco 6 for upgrade next turn.

Settler in Karina joins AGA/B.

G01 I. PoA [WhiteBandit] moves 4-4-4 then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with WB.
G02 II. Expedition [Flash, Jagjef] moves 3-3-6 then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with the Swordsmen.

M12 XII. BigFurryInfantry moves 8 if MerZenary loses in its attack on the barb camp, otherwise moves 2.

S05 V. Hack moves 9-8 and upgrades to a Medieval Infantry.

N01 I. MerZenary attacks barb camp at 7.
N04 IV. Togas attacks barb at 6; will be used to guard the city and the silks.
N05 V. Enamel attacks barb Warrior at 2.
N07 VII. Ghengis attacks barb Horseman + camp at 2.
N11 XI. rush moves towards AGA/B.

W02 II. BigFree moves 2-7 and fortifies (scouting cycle).
W08 VIII. Not_Panag moves 6 and fortifies; preventing barb from getting onto our mountain road.
W12 XII. WWNN skips turn.

All other units to remain as they are.


Economy:
Apolyton - Building Vet Warrior (1 of 1 turn).
Mingapolco - Building Vet Warrior (1 of 1 turn).
Bananatopia - Building Vet Warrior (1 of 1 turn).
Incensity - Building Vet Numidian Warrior (2 of 4 turns).
Tripoli - Building Courthouse (last turn).
Equilibrium - Building Walls (11 of 20 turns).
Cuildo de Alcohol - Building Catapult (9 of 20 turns) - scheadual is less.
Hispanica - Building Barracks (4 of 10 turns).
Possumopolis - Building Catapult (4 of 7 turns).
Karina - Building Catapult (6 of 8 turns).
LuxInvicta - Building Granary (11 of 17 turns).
Big Bend - Building Worker (5 of 7 turns).
BigFurryCity - Building Barracks (3 of 10 turns).
Heart of Darkness - Building Catapult (7 of 7 turns).

WF:
Apolyton - starting WF 4-6-8-15-18 - change WF to 5-6-8-15-18.
Mingapolco - starting WF 1-2-8-9-15 - NC.
Bananatopia - starting WF 1-2-6-8-9-15-19 - change WF to 1-2-3-6-8-9-15. WF #15 will get mined this turn, so the SPT will still be 10 after waste.
Incensity - starting WF 5-6-7-14 - NC.
Tripoli - starting WF 2-17-19-20 - change WF to 7-17-19-20.
Equilibrium - starting WF scientist - NC
Cuildo de Alcohol - starting WF 1 - NC.
Hispanica - (borders expand) starting WF 1-2-3-4 - NC.
Possumopolis - starting WF 4-14 - change WF to 7-14.
Karina - starting WF 3-19 - change WF to 3-17.
LuxInvicta - starting WF 4-8-10 - NC.
Big Bend - (grows this turn) starting WF 1-??8?? - change WF to 1-3.
BigFurryCity - starting WF 6-7-8 - NC.
Heart of Darkness - starting WF 3-10-11 - change WF to 1-10-11.

Workers:
Referance: Map of tiles still needing Improvements
Monkee & CalcII - Road (done) - needs to be done before moving Go3
Lib - move 7-4 (joining Yin) to Possum 4 (WF#7) and start mining
panag - road done, frozen.
Yo & rah - jungle cleared, frozen.
Gits & Dan - start clearing Jungle.
Go3 (MrWIA, EVC & Dejon) - move 9 (after Monkee & CalcII have roaded) and Mine.
Spink & Rush - 2 turns left mining.
Horse - 2 turns left to road Iron
Squid - 2 turns left to road hill.
Mark & Dan - 2 turns left to clear.
Yin - 3 turns left to Mine.
Slave Farb - 8 turns left to road.


Diplomacy:
GCA: NAP in effect (to Turn 130).
CFC: NAP expired. New NAP proposed by CFC thru turn 117

Comment, please, many "plans" are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.

---
Note: keypad directions used for all except WF orders.

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results

Last edited by E_T on 15-09-2003 at 07:00

	13-09-2003 11:59									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The Galley should go 7-7-7; but of course that could change depending upon what it sees on those moves. I think we should discuss this in chat, as it is happening. Though the first and second moves should be 7-7.

	13-09-2003 12:03									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I disagree. 4 4 4 is going to reveal more tiles. Since we do not know what is where, the more tiles revealed the better, I would think.

I would be very surprised if they came to us by 3 3 3.

	13-09-2003 12:14									#4
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I do not care to just reveal more tiles. I'm just looking at where I "think" the other landmass is. To me, it seems we would have a better chance at 7-7-7 at actually finding it. I would be surprised if they came at us from a cardinal direction.

	13-09-2003 12:19									#5
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Since we do not know, is it not better to uncover more unknown terrain?

There is a reason why cardinal directions are used. They uncover more of the unknown. I think GWT is good enough to know that.

	13-09-2003 12:28									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I believe GWT's landmass, or the landmass the came from will be closer to us if we go 7-7-7.

Yes, 4-4-4 reveils more tiles. But my basic experiences in this game, over many games played, tell me that we are more likely to find them in the 7-7-7 direction. This is my educated guess.

	13-09-2003 12:41									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

4-4-4.

	13-09-2003 13:45									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I'm going to have to saw 4-4-4 in this too. It simply reveals quite a bit more. Your guess is just as good as ours. Ours just reveals slightly more area.

I suppose 4-7-8 would be somewhat of a compromise. It ends up where you want to be while uncovering nearly as many tiles as we want.

	13-09-2003 20:29									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It's always better to move in the cardinal directions with suicide Galleys. By revealing more tiles, your chances of finding that Sea you're looking for is increased. You can always correct course with this knowledge in hand; without it, you're relying on your guess only, and correcting course based on guesses is ineffective.

In short: 4-4-4.


Dominae

	13-09-2003 22:46									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

4-4-4 for me as well.

	15-09-2003 06:39									#11
	Remove this text

All units (excepting Warriors to be upgraded in Mingapulco) in Army Group A/B (AGA/B) to remain (fortified) on the road tile 8 of Cuido where they can maintain the maximum mobility to deal with a GCA threat.

AGA/B contains: 3 vet Horseman, 13 vet MIs, 6 vet NMs, 1 elite Warrior, 7 vet Warriors, 2 Catapults, 1 Settler (35 units)

All new Warriors to join assembly point at Mingapulco 6 for upgrade next turn.

Settler in Karina joins AGA/B.

G01 I. PoA [WhiteBandit] moves 4-4-4 then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with WB.
G02 II. Expedition [Flash, Jagjef] moves 3-3-6 then uses FORTIFY ALL trick with the Swordsmen.

M12 XII. BigFurryInfantry moves 8 if MerZenary loses in its attack on the barb camp, otherwise moves 2.

S05 V. Hack moves 9-8 and upgrades to a Medieval Infantry.

N01 I. MerZenary attacks barb camp at 7.
N04 IV. Togas attacks barb at 6; will be used to guard the city and the silks.
N05 V. Enamel attacks barb Warrior at 2.
N07 VII. Ghengis attacks barb Horseman + camp at 2.
N11 XI. rush moves towards AGA/B.

W02 II. BigFree moves 2-7 and fortifies (scouting cycle).
W08 VIII. Not_Panag moves 6 and fortifies; preventing barb from getting onto our mountain road.
W12 XII. WWNN skips turn.

All other units to remain as they are.

	15-09-2003 07:03									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

We can see the sea for the other continent:

	15-09-2003 08:33									#13
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Diplomacy:
- CFC offers 60 gold, accepted. We accept.
- Our offer of Feudalism for Engineering with GWT is still on the table. We have accepted, they have not. Sent again.


Unit Movement & Actions:

G01 'AS Princess of Apolyton' [WhiteBandit] moves 4 4 4. Fortify all
G02 'AS Expedition' [Flash, Jagjef] moves 3 3 6. Fortify all

N05 'Enamel' attacks Numidian camp at 2. Kills warrior, 1 pip damage
N07 'Ghengis' attacks Numidian camp at 2. Kills horse, no damage. +25 gold
N01 'MerZenary' attacks Thracian camp at 7. Wins, no damage. Promoted to vet. +25 gold
N04 'Togas' attacks Ghuzz warrior at 6. Wins, 2 pips damage
N12 'rush' moves 1 1 2

Settler moves 1. Sentry

M12 'BigFurryInfantry' moves 2

S05 'Hack' moves 9. Sentry

W02 'BigFree' moves 3 (GCA elite sw is still there) 7. Fortify
W12 'Warrior With No Name' skips turn
W20 f fm Nana moves 8 7. Sentry
W21 g fm Ming moves 6. Sentry
W22 h fm Poly moves 1 2. Sentry
W08 'not_panag' moves 6 7

H01 'Trip's Guard' moves 4 7 4 4 1
H02 'NuclearHorseman' moves 4 7 4 4 1
H03 'vonHorseman' moves 4 7 4 4 1


Economy:
Apolyton finished warrior. building warrior (1)
Mingapulco finished warrior. building warrior (1)
Banantopia finished warrior. building warrior (1)
Incensity finished merc. building merc (3)
Tripoli building court house (1)
Equilibrium building walls (9)
Cuido de Alcohol building cat (11)
Hispanica building barracks (6)
Possumopolis building cat (3)
Karina building cat (2)
LuxInvicta building granery (6)
Big Bend building worker (2)
BigFurryCity building baracks (7)
Heart of Darkness building cat (1)

WF:
Apolyton change to 5-6-8-15-18
Mingapulco NC
Banantopia change to 1-2-3-6-8-9-15
Incensity NC
Tripoli change to 7-17-19-20
Equilibrium scientist
Cuido de Alcohol NC
Hispanica NC
Possumopolis change to 7-14
Karina change to 3-17
LuxInvicta change to 4-8-10
Big Bend change to 1-3
BigFurryCity NC
Heart of Darkness change to 1-10-11

Workers:
Worker01: 'Dan' clearing (6) Big bend 3
Worker02: 'Monkee' roading (1) Nana 2 1
Worker03: 'panag' roading (1) Hispanica 8 7
Worker04: 'EVC' moves 9. mining (1) Nana 2 1
Worker05: 'Dejon' moves 9. mining (1) Nana 2 1
Worker06: 'MrWIA' moves 9. mining (1) Nana 2 1
Worker07: 'Rush' mining (2) BFC 8 7
Worker08: 'Yo' clearing (1) Karina 3
Worker09: 'Calc II' roading (1) Nana 2 1
Worker10: 'Spink' mining (2) BFC 8 7
Worker11: 'Horse' roading (2) Tripoli 9
Worker12: 'Squid' roading (2) Tripoli 3
Worker13: 'Otto' clearing (2) Lux 6
Worker14: 'Mark' clearing (2) Lux 6
Worker15: 'Gits' clearing (6) Big bend 3
Worker16s: 'Farb' roading (8) Equilibrium 4
Worker17: 'Yin' mining (5) Possum 4
Worker18: 'Lib' moves 7 4. mining (3) Possum 4
Worker19: 'rah' clearing (1) Karina 3


Slider: 9/0/1 tax/sci/lux. +27gpt. 442 gold.
1 scientist. Engineering in 25


Summary:
- Sea spotted by PoA
- 2 camps captured
- 1 merc promoted to vet
- Expedition was spotted by a GCA horseman 1 1 1 of Dun na Anarchy

	15-09-2003 10:31									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Some trival observation looking at the scores,

1. Firaxis score has continued to decline. At Turn 110, their score is 197. Now they are at 192, and are reducing at 1 Pt every turn. But if we look at Land Area, we are still #4 - which means that Firaxis has still quite a lot of land to lose, before they are completely out of the game. Hopefully, we will find them before they are finished ... i am sure some of you like to hold FAM chats with Firaxis folks ?

2. Algalord population reduced from 5 to 3 last turn, Turn 116. Probably popped a settler. Would be good to start the War immediately after they built another settler.

	15-09-2003 20:32									#16
	Remove this text

Rush: Actually Firaxis has had less land than us for quite some time. We're 4th because CGN is 1st, GWT is 2nd and GCA is 3rd. We are 4th after them.

	16-09-2003 01:58									#17
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Looks like we now know which city we need to capture if we want to get the Pyraimds.

	16-09-2003 05:06									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Rush: Actually Firaxis has had less land than us for quite some time. We're 4th because CGN is 1st, GWT is 2nd and GCA is 3rd. We are 4th after them.

Oops it never occurs to me that GCA can be bigger than us, considering that we have more cities than them for a while. I ought to count the squares the next time. Thanks.

	16-09-2003 11:27									#19
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GCA continuing to build settlers suggests they may not be taking the possibility of a 'poly attack seriously.

I would call that a good thing.

	16-09-2003 19:59									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon GCA continuing to build settlers suggests they may not be taking the possibility of a 'poly attack seriously. I would call that a good thing.

Well, we just built a Settler too...

	17-09-2003 00:42									#21
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Trip Well, we just built a Settler too...

Exactly! If they are paying attention to things like that, then perhaps they do not currently fear an invasion. If they just pumped out a Settler (and it's been proven they have) you tell me what team who fears an invasion would be pumping out a settler if it was not to be used for offensive purposes? And since we are "Strong" to GCA, I highly doubt GCA is planning to use that Settler offensively against us. They are not likely to use it in the same manner against CFC either since we just broke that war up!

GCA will be surprised big time by our invasion. They will cry, they will shat their pants, they will most likey want to quit after the first few turns of the war; they will want to give up when they see AGC!

What kind of peace offerings will we accept from GCA? More than likely, none at all; especially if the war goes as we foresee it will; which is a complete success and a route of all of GCA territory.

	17-09-2003 16:45									#22
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

We should accept a peace offering that includes CGA declaring a formal oath of in-game fealty to Poly.

	17-09-2003 18:03									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Screw that. We already had a discussion of "In-game vassals" RE: the CDG debate. That stuff borders on cheating, like I said there, and frankly, I wouldn't trust GCA to honor it anyhow. If you beat an enemy into the ground but don't finish him off, you can count on that enemy to rise again, and fly at your throat.

When this war is over, the language of GCA will be spoken only in "hades."

	17-09-2003 19:58									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

In theory, it would just be amazing to have GCA as a vassal ("Look, a second FP!"). In practice, I doubt it would ever work.


Dominae

	17-09-2003 21:16									#25
	Tired of ads?

Well, if the Vassal was discontinous and had their own FP in the section that their Palace wasn't in:

Wow, a 3rd and 4th VP!!!

	17-09-2003 22:09									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The theory behind a workable vassalage is friendly relations. If GCA were to become our vassal they probably wouldn't be friendly since we essentially put them out of the game. Like FP says, we couldn't trust them not to backstab us as soon as someone else asks them to.

I'd just as soon take them out of the game completely or at the very least drive them off the continent. If another team tries to make them a vassal then they will run into the same problems we did when discussing making CDG a vassal.

	17-09-2003 22:14									#27
	Remove this text

There's no way we can let GCA live.

We are the disturbance in the balance of power on this continent. If CFC and another power on this continent are ever given the chance to unite then our dominance will be threatened.

	17-09-2003 22:25									#28
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GCA is doomed, there's no way around it. We cannot trust them in the end, and that is the most important factor. If we could trust them, then having them as a Vassal is viable and not cheating, IMO. If we (APO and GCA) started this game with the sole purpose of them becoming our Vassals, then that would be cheating. It's not cheating for one team to join with another team with the sole purpose of defeating all other teams.

	19-09-2003 17:49									#29
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A tricky question, brought up already when GhengisFarb wanted CDG to become Poly's vassal for the remainder of the game. It could have been predicted that would have been propsed by GF, as it is in his mercenary nature (and perhaps others from the Glory of War PtWDG team) to want something like that. However, I hardly expect that from a team like GCA.

More realistic and still in the same vein would be to discuss peace terms. A separate thread needs to be started for this (we can't keep topping the old turn 117 thread), so onwards we go...